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Author Topic: Purely for speculation  (Read 5637 times)
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BigOrange Maniac
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« on: August 26, 2011, 05:51:56 EDT »

I make this post at the risk of it reading like something you'd see on VolNation.com. I'm not advocating that this should happen or suggesting it's even remotely possible. But just for the sake of fun speculation...

Tennessee's administration stated for months that it would keep Bruce Pearl on board even in light of the charges the NCAA had levied against him. Then they used the "bump" as ammunition to can him, along with the March 2011 violation that wasn't committed by Pearl himself. Now we all know that the bump wasn't the real reason the administration terminated Pearl; it was simply a means. But their words were their words, and the university has now successfully appealed that bump. So as far as the NCAA is concerned, the bump that cost Bruce Pearl his job never happened.

The real reason Pearl was fired, obviously, was because Tennessee couldn't withstand his 3-year show cause penalty. The program would've either been given major sanctions, or had to suspend him for 3 years, or both. Either way, it was impossible to keep him.

So now in comes Cuonzo Martin. The early verdict, whether fair or unfair, is that this season is going to be a major struggle for Tennessee. The Vols are probably NIT-bound even if Cuonzo proves to be a good coach. After that, his success or failure will depend largely on his ability to recruit, but there's at least an average chance — and maybe an above-average chance — that he fails. I don't WANT him to fail; I want him to succeed and take this program to new heights. I'm just stating the probabilities.

Typically a coach is given around three years to prove his worth. If he doesn't succeed, he won't last much beyond three years.

Coincidentally, Bruce Pearl will be ready to return to college coaching right about the same time.

One of the major players in Pearl's dismissal is already gone (Hamilton). It's possible, if not likely, that the other one (Cheek) will also be gone by then. At least some of Tennessee's biggest donors were behind Pearl the entire time. Even after being fired and treated unfairly by the administration (not because they fired him, necessarily, but because of the way they did it), Pearl has maintained a loyalty to Knoxville and even to the university. He was spotted just earlier this week wearing UT orange.

You know where I'm going with this. Discuss? 
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Inspector Vol
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 05:59:12 EDT »

I don't think they could or will go that route. Would be too much like telling the ncaa to stuff it.
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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 06:01:16 EDT »

FTR, I agree with those of you who think Bruce got a raw deal from our administration, as well as the NCAA.  Given our history in basketball, I think it's a worthy argument as to whether we would have been better off taking the action we did, or keeping him, absorbing any penalties the NCAA dished out, and rebuilding again in 3 years.  Yeah, I guess I wish he were still our coach.

That said, he's not.  And discussions like this are really unfair to Cuonzo Martin.  Bruce Pearl is gone, and there's nothing we can do about it.  Time to move on.
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BigOrange Maniac
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 06:35:56 EDT »



And discussions like this are really unfair to Cuonzo Martin.

Nonsense. I said I want Martin to succeed; I don't know how to be any plainer about that. There will always be speculation about whether a coach will succeed. Folks still speculate about Dooley and he's had a full season and two recruiting classes to prove himself. That's just the nature of sports fandom.

Also, your last couple of sentences suggest that I'm refusing to accept that Pearl has been fired and am unwilling to move past that. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hence what I said above: I'm not advocating that this scenario play out. In fact, I don't think it CAN because it would cause a big rift in the fan base. But if Martin isn't our coach in three years and you think some folks out there (including some who wield a little influence) won't be advocating that scenario, you're kidding yourself.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 06:38:39 EDT by BigOrange Maniac » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 06:52:21 EDT »

Nonsense. I said I want Martin to succeed; I don't know how to be any plainer about that. There will always be speculation about whether a coach will succeed. Folks still speculate about Dooley and he's had a full season and two recruiting classes to prove himself. That's just the nature of sports fandom.

Also, your last couple of sentences suggest that I'm refusing to accept that Pearl has been fired and am unwilling to move past that. Nothing could be further from the truth. Hence what I said above: I'm not advocating that this scenario play out. In fact, I don't think it CAN because it would cause a big rift in the fan base. But if Martin isn't our coach in three years and you think some folks out there (including some who wield a little influence) won't be advocating that scenario, you're kidding yourself.

I wasn't talking about the speculation that he may not succeed- In fact, our history suggests that there's a very good chance he won't.  I'm talking about a fanbase that still seems to be obsessed with his predecessor.  How would you like to be a coach, and you're hosting some recruits over the weekend, and all they're talking about on TV, radio, and newspaper is the guy who came before you?  How is that going to look to a bluechip point guard?

Heck, I bet there's a significant percentage of our fanbase who can't even name the current men's basketball coach. 
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BigOrange Maniac
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 07:31:33 EDT »

I wasn't talking about the speculation that he may not succeed- In fact, our history suggests that there's a very good chance he won't.  I'm talking about a fanbase that still seems to be obsessed with his predecessor.  How would you like to be a coach, and you're hosting some recruits over the weekend, and all they're talking about on TV, radio, and newspaper is the guy who came before you?  How is that going to look to a bluechip point guard?

Heck, I bet there's a significant percentage of our fanbase who can't even name the current men's basketball coach. 

You might have a point there...but this isn't TV, radio or newspaper. It's an Internet messageboard. Hardly the place for logical discussion, dontcha think? And, again, discussing Bruce Pearl does NOT mean that anyone is obsessed with Bruce Pearl. Look down the forum. There isn't much else going on to discuss, is there?
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 07:57:59 EDT »

UT cannot and should not think in that direction, no matter how much I wish Bruce were still our coach. I will, however, pull for him wherever he goes (with certain obvious exceptions).

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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 08:15:33 EDT »

No chance in hell, but if they did it would be epic.

Cuonzo won't fail though
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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 10:39:37 EDT »

You might have a point there...but this isn't TV, radio or newspaper. It's an Internet messageboard. Hardly the place for logical discussion, dontcha think? And, again, discussing Bruce Pearl does NOT mean that anyone is obsessed with Bruce Pearl. Look down the forum. There isn't much else going on to discuss, is there?

But you know as well as I do that the lazy mainstream media will often take their cues from internet forums these days.  If we're talking about this here, then it's only a matter of time until John Adam picks up on it and writes one of his famous "I'm totally NOT being serious, but half of you idiots will take it that way" pieces about the subject in the KNS.  Later that morning, Larry from LaFollette will call in to the Sports Animal, saying "Hey Jeummy, whut do you thank bout what John Adams wrote today?  I thank its a dang good idear.  I'll hang up an listen".  Then Oscar from Oliver Springs and Al from Alcoa will second the notion.  That afternoon, Basilio cites one of his "rock solid sources" in his blog, saying that Pearl has been contacted by UT.  That's when Chris Lowe picks up on it and plasters it on his ESPN blog, then Doug Gottlieb talks about it the following Saturday morning on "College Gameday", live from Rupp Arena.  This is how rumors get started these days.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 10:41:08 EDT by Black Diamond Vol » Logged

BigOrange Maniac
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 10:45:15 EDT »

But you know as well as I do that the lazy mainstream media will often take their cues from internet forums these days.  If we're talking about this here, then it's only a matter of time until John Adam picks up on it and writes one of his famous "I'm totally NOT being serious, but half of you idiots will take it that way" pieces about the subject in the KNS.  Later that morning, Larry from LaFollette will call in to the Sports Animal, saying "Hey Jeummy, whut do you thank bout what John Adams wrote today?  I thank its a dang good idear.  I'll hang up an listen".  Then Oscar from Oliver Springs and Al from Alcoa will second the notion.  That afternoon, Basilio cites one of his "rock solid sources" in his blog, saying that Pearl has been contacted by UT.  That's when Chris Lowe picks up on it and plasters it on his ESPN blog, then Doug Gottlieb talks about it the following Saturday morning on "College Gameday", live from Rupp Arena.  This is how rumors get started these days.

Maybe. I think you're giving us way too much credit, though. I don't think the MSM is going to be talking about this possibility anytime soon. Now, in a couple of years, if UT is struggling, that might be different. Even sports columnists have more courtesy than that. (Well, most of them some of them a few of them, anyway.)
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BanditVol
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 01:40:23 EDT »

I got it.  Pat wants to stick around 3 years, so Pearl can come back and replace her.  Was the show cause just for men's bball, or also wimmen's    But in three years it won't matter.  Maybe this is why Pat wants to stick around three years. 

PS I am joking, but seriously...!   
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SmokeyJoe
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 12:42:18 EDT »

I loved Bruce Pearl before he unwittingly screwed UT & hisself!  That said,
He coached at wisconsin-milwaukee prior to UT.  Hardly a "big time" hire.  I
Really do not understand your negativity toward Coach Zo. He has a nice roster.  Hall,
Maymon, Mcrae, Richardson, Golden and others were nice recruits! We may not have Nike U.'S roster
But I will guarantee we will be in the mix in the SECe this year & the future.
This is not Wade Houston redo!  Gonna be fine!  Eddie Munster was not the first coach
That took uf to FF.  You know that.  Bruce fizzleed up.  Sorry he did.  We move on, and will do quite
Well.  Why! He did his job prior to fizzleing up!
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101stDad
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 02:46:02 EDT »

Geez Louise.  Reading all of this made my head hurt.   

Bottom line - Pearl fired himself.  It wouldn't have mattered whom the AD, President, or Chancellor were, three years of show cause, AND three years of recruiting ban for Pearl, plus one year of show cause AND a year of recruiting ban for the assistant coaches would have made all of them completely useless.  If they can't recruit - and that means they can't recruit prospects of any class, not just the next class - there is no reason to retain them.  Recruiting is the life blood of a college athletic program, and especially football and basketball.  No recruiting - the program dies. 

No offense intended, BOM, but even the mention of doing something like this is just silly. 
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