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Author Topic: Opinion question about Coach Dooley  (Read 5361 times)
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WoodstockVol
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« on: September 22, 2011, 06:53:05 EDT »

How many seasons would you give Coach Dooley before you would put him on the hotseat? Will He be in trouble if the team wins 7 wins this season and around the same in 2012? Knowing the impatient types that have pull within and without the UT football program I would say what happens in 2013 will be really important for Coach Dooley. I'd say He'll be in trouble(in My mind) if Tennessee isn't over 8 wins by 2013
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Inspector Vol
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2011, 07:16:26 EDT »

It just depends. There are so many variables. Bray, Hunter and Rogers could all be gone after next year. That would be a big blow for any team. That is the nature of the beast though and we will likely have some talent to replace them if they leave but the question will be is will our defense be ready to steady the ship in 2013? The answer to that is a big maybe because we have so many holes on the dl and at lb to fill with freshmen still.
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BigOrange Maniac
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 07:43:53 EDT »

How many years will the UT fans give him or how long should they give him?

Dooley has to have a minimum of four years to turn things around.

Will our fans give him that before the caterwauling begins? I doubt it. We'll finish off this season on a good note, anticipation will build for next season, and then when Florida comes to Neyland Stadium and beats us, the wailing and gnashing of the teeth will begin. Heck, you've seen and heard the comments from fans this week after Dooley took his second-year team of freshmen and sophomores into a hostile environment, lost arguably his best player on the first series, and still only lost by 10. FTR, I was disappointed that Tennessee once again choked, to a certain degree, but there are fans out there already questioning whether Dooley is the right guy. Which is just asinine, IMO.

Here's the reality that's going to be difficult for the unreasonable portion of our fan base to accept: the days of us winning 10 games every single year are over. The SEC landscape has changed dramatically since we were at our peak in the '90s. Florida is Florida and always will be simply because they can cherry-pick one of the nation's biggest hotbeds of prep talent. For whatever history will ultimately write about Mark Richt at UGA, he's had some good success against UT. And if Georgia gets the right person in place, they could easily grow into an annual contender for the SEC East. Spurrier can't take South Carolina to the next level, IMO, but he's proven that it can be done. When he finally retires, USCe will have an opportunity to bring in someone who can finish what Spurrier started. Plus, used to be, our only real threat from the West was Alabama. Now that Auburn is back and Petrino is doing what Nutt really wasn't able to accomplish at Arkansas, plus Mullen is doing what no one thought possible at Mississippi State, the West is even better than the East. Ten years ago you hoped that your draw from the West was Alabama and any two teams other than LSU or Auburn. Now the only pushover in the West is Ole Miss. It's only going to become more difficult as the SEC expands. Most UT fans have this perception that we're going to return to the '90s, where we would lose a game or two a year in the SEC year-in and year-out and not think twice about it. One-loss or no-loss SEC seasons will be the exception rather than the rule going forward and I'm not sure that our disillusioned fanbase is prepared to deal with that reality.
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CobbWebb
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 01:05:40 EDT »


I agree with you that Dooley needs time because of the situation created by Fulmer and Kiffin. But I believe it is very important that fans keep the pressure on him. This program has a rich history and any coach is going to have to produce and do better than just average to maintain his job. It's just the way it is. It may not be fair but little in life is so GOOOO DOOLEY...but you better start recruiting studs and you had better win or out the door you go.

How's that?

CW


How many years will the UT fans give him or how long should they give him?

Dooley has to have a minimum of four years to turn things around.

Will our fans give him that before the caterwauling begins? I doubt it. We'll finish off this season on a good note, anticipation will build for next season, and then when Florida comes to Neyland Stadium and beats us, the wailing and gnashing of the teeth will begin. Heck, you've seen and heard the comments from fans this week after Dooley took his second-year team of freshmen and sophomores into a hostile environment, lost arguably his best player on the first series, and still only lost by 10. FTR, I was disappointed that Tennessee once again choked, to a certain degree, but there are fans out there already questioning whether Dooley is the right guy. Which is just asinine, IMO.

Here's the reality that's going to be difficult for the unreasonable portion of our fan base to accept: the days of us winning 10 games every single year are over. The SEC landscape has changed dramatically since we were at our peak in the '90s. Florida is Florida and always will be simply because they can cherry-pick one of the nation's biggest hotbeds of prep talent. For whatever history will ultimately write about Mark Richt at UGA, he's had some good success against UT. And if Georgia gets the right person in place, they could easily grow into an annual contender for the SEC East. Spurrier can't take South Carolina to the next level, IMO, but he's proven that it can be done. When he finally retires, USCe will have an opportunity to bring in someone who can finish what Spurrier started. Plus, used to be, our only real threat from the West was Alabama. Now that Auburn is back and Petrino is doing what Nutt really wasn't able to accomplish at Arkansas, plus Mullen is doing what no one thought possible at Mississippi State, the West is even better than the East. Ten years ago you hoped that your draw from the West was Alabama and any two teams other than LSU or Auburn. Now the only pushover in the West is Ole Miss. It's only going to become more difficult as the SEC expands. Most UT fans have this perception that we're going to return to the '90s, where we would lose a game or two a year in the SEC year-in and year-out and not think twice about it. One-loss or no-loss SEC seasons will be the exception rather than the rule going forward and I'm not sure that our disillusioned fanbase is prepared to deal with that reality.
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3beans
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 01:23:21 EDT »

Hot seat for 7 wins?  Not a chance.  Heck!  He might even deserve a rise for 7.  Before the season I reasoned 6 wins.  I'm hopeful we will steal at least one and make 7.  We lost our best DB before the season started.  We lost our #1 WR last week.  Our OL did not make the progress that I had hoped for over the off season.  Our kicking game has not improved over last year (on the offensive side of the ball).

On the up side.  Bray is much better than I thought he would be.  Our DL is doing better than what I thought they would.  Our kick coverage (defensive side of the kicking game) is vastly improved...even close to the terrific level.  The tight end position is strong. Our linebackers are growing up fast a have great potential.

Overall I would say that if our OL knew how to run block, the we could win 8 games this year.  Without it, we will be lucky to win 7.  What is puzzling is that I thought we had a real top notch line coach.  Up to this point, I just don't see that result.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 04:20:31 EDT »


Overall I would say that if our OL knew how to run block, the we could win 8 games this year.  Without it, we will be lucky to win 7.  What is puzzling is that I thought we had a real top notch line coach.  Up to this point, I just don't see that result.

My very amateur opinion is that it simply takes time for the line to gell.  Last year, we started 4 guys on opening day that DID NOT HAVE  A SINGLE START between them.  They are all still here this year.  Should they be farther along?  Probably, but it's still very early.  I am far from an expert on offensive lines, but I do know that in the past I have seen many suddenly click at midseason and go on to dominate the next year.  I still think that can happen this year, as long as they work hard and don't lose heart. 
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BigOrange Maniac
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 04:23:59 EDT »

I agree with you that Dooley needs time because of the situation created by Fulmer and Kiffin. But I believe it is very important that fans keep the pressure on him. This program has a rich history and any coach is going to have to produce and do better than just average to maintain his job. It's just the way it is. It may not be fair but little in life is so GOOOO DOOLEY...but you better start recruiting studs and you had better win or out the door you go.

How's that?

CW



It isn't the fans' job to keep the pressure on him. That'll take care of itself. If Dooley isn't putting butts in the seats and keeping apathy at bay, the administration's decision to move on will be an easy one. But show me a fan who is interested in putting pressure on a coach to win and I'll show you a fan who, 9 times out of 10, has unreasonable expectations. I don't think anyone is going to be willing to give Dooley a free pass on fielding a mediocre football team. I know I'm not, and I'm probably one of the guy's biggest fans. But, IMO, there's a gigantic leap from being unwilling to accept an average football team and expecting far too much.
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TheRealOrange
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 03:56:49 EDT »

How many seasons would you give Coach Dooley before you would put him on the hotseat? Will He be in trouble if the team wins 7 wins this season and around the same in 2012? Knowing the impatient types that have pull within and without the UT football program I would say what happens in 2013 will be really important for Coach Dooley. I'd say He'll be in trouble(in My mind) if Tennessee isn't over 8 wins by 2013

Johnny Majors' records his first five years were 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, 5-6 and 8-4.  He then proceeded to go 6-5-1 before finally winning 9 games in his 7th season.  And, while Johnny took over a program with weak talent, it was far from a program in shambles.  I do not think Bill Battle ever lost more than 5 games in a season.  I would give Dooley at least five years to see if his teams are going to be able to compete for SEC championships, just as they did for Majors (granted, he was a favored "son" of the program, but...).  The players will all be Dooley's after four years and we should be able to tell if the direction the program is going is a positive one.  Anything less than five years and I think we are still just guessing.
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LouisVOL
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 11:36:23 EDT »

I absolutely buy into his year 0 rationale, and I think he gets 5 of his years to build his program with his recruits, so 6 total. 

That said, he has to show growth in the right direction pretty much annually to keep me at 100%, and I do not define right direction necessarily by wins.  If we are a tough, fundamentally sound, intelligent, spirited football team, I consider that to be the right direction.  Still gotta win, and we have to start winning a few we shouldn't, but I am solid behind Dooley and it would take a lot to make me believe he is not the coach to succeed long term and get us back to the upper echelon of the SEC and therefore the nation.
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CobbWebb
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2011, 12:56:53 EDT »


Completely disagree. Fans and their dollars make all the difference in the world of college football. The more engaged and vocal the fan base, the more likely ADs are to make timely decisions. Sure wish more people had been behind canning Fulmer after 2005. Hell, I was guilty as well. I wanted him to turn it around. I was wrong.

Talk radio, letters to the AD, not buying tickets...whatever it takes to get the point across that a losing coach needs to hit the bricks. Just waiting for the administration to do their job doesn't cut it unless you really trust the AD and others in charge.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

CW

It isn't the fans' job to keep the pressure on him. That'll take care of itself. If Dooley isn't putting butts in the seats and keeping apathy at bay, the administration's decision to move on will be an easy one. But show me a fan who is interested in putting pressure on a coach to win and I'll show you a fan who, 9 times out of 10, has unreasonable expectations. I don't think anyone is going to be willing to give Dooley a free pass on fielding a mediocre football team. I know I'm not, and I'm probably one of the guy's biggest fans. But, IMO, there's a gigantic leap from being unwilling to accept an average football team and expecting far too much.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2011, 06:06:36 EDT »

Johnny Majors' records his first five years were 4-7, 5-5-1, 7-5, 5-6 and 8-4.  He then proceeded to go 6-5-1 before finally winning 9 games in his 7th season.  And, while Johnny took over a program with weak talent, it was far from a program in shambles.  I do not think Bill Battle ever lost more than 5 games in a season.  I would give Dooley at least five years to see if his teams are going to be able to compete for SEC championships, just as they did for Majors (granted, he was a favored "son" of the program, but...).  The players will all be Dooley's after four years and we should be able to tell if the direction the program is going is a positive one.  Anything less than five years and I think we are still just guessing.

I agree that Dooley should have plenty of time.  However, it's a different era of football.  A contemporary of Majors was VINCE Dooley, arguably the most successful uga coach of all time (though they had some previous eras of success).  I am too lazy to look up his exact win %, but it was only something like 62%.   He had many, many mediocre teams before Herschel showed up.  I don't think he lasts more than 4-5 years these days.   

His son, of course, will be much better.      But I doubt fans will be as patient as they were with Johnny.  I think he will get either 4 or 5 years, but no more, but I also think that just getting 9 wins at the end of that periodmight not even be enough.
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