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Author Topic: Any more excuses?  (Read 30744 times)
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MIAUTIGER
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« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2012, 08:47:25 EDT »

I trust Hart to handle the hiring correctly.  He has to have a big name hire already signed, sealed and delivered before Dooley is let go.  To let Dooley go without having someone else already hired is a monumental mistake, imo.  I'd rather have Dooley for another year than to have to settle (again).

Man, that approach has all the workings of nothing good.  How do you expect them to sneak around Dooley and the entire Vol nation and get a big name coach before letting Dooley go? That is a PR disaster waiting to happen. And us Auburn fans can speak to that based on experience.  May y'all should start tracking flights that the UT plane takes. At the very least it would make for some interesting internet fodder; and at the most, it would uncover a calndestine coaching search. Regardless, it would be a win/win for VTTW in terms of traffic.
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Bammer suxes! That is all!
VoLynteer
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« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2012, 08:49:09 EDT »

Chastise, chastise, chastise!

That rumor has been out there for a while. Even before the season I heard that it's possible that Hart wanted Sunseri so he'd have somebody to keep on board when he fires Dooley and hires Kirby Smart.  I think all that is Internet fodder made convenient by the fact that Hart was at Alabama. I don't really think ADs or assistant ADs have very close relationships with position coaches on a football staff.

I hope not because it would not bode well for Hart's ability to choose a quality coach.
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Stogie Vol
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« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2012, 09:14:06 EDT »

Man, that approach has all the workings of nothing good.  How do you expect them to sneak around Dooley and the entire Vol nation and get a big name coach before letting Dooley go? That is a PR disaster waiting to happen. And us Auburn fans can speak to that based on experience.  May y'all should start tracking flights that the UT plane takes. At the very least it would make for some interesting internet fodder; and at the most, it would uncover a calndestine coaching search. Regardless, it would be a win/win for VTTW in terms of traffic.

You do everything through intermediaries so everything is deniable.
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2012, 09:23:59 EDT »

You do everything through intermediaries so everything is deniable.

You know, like how the Aubies paid Cam's Dad.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:26:07 EDT by VinnieVOL » Logged
VinnieVOL
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« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2012, 09:42:53 EDT »

I also read that State scored a TD on one play where we only had 10 men on the field. Also we called a Timeout in the 1st half because we had 12 men on the field but then they counted again and we had 11. 
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BanditVol
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« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2012, 10:03:53 EDT »

I trust Hart to handle the hiring correctly.  He has to have a big name hire already signed, sealed and delivered before Dooley is let go.  To let Dooley go without having someone else already hired is a monumental mistake, imo.  I'd rather have Dooley for another year than to have to settle (again).

Not hired but at least have a good plan
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BanditVol
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« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2012, 10:05:55 EDT »

I also read that State scored a TD on one play where we only had 10 men on the field. Also we called a Timeout in the 1st half because we had 12 men on the field but then they counted again and we had 11. 

U have a link
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NC Enginerd
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« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2012, 10:06:40 EDT »

You want a Cam, you need to outbid us.   

You know, like how the Aubies paid Cam's Dad.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2012, 12:43:56 EDT »

Man, that approach has all the workings of nothing good.  How do you expect them to sneak around Dooley and the entire Vol nation and get a big name coach before letting Dooley go? That is a PR disaster waiting to happen. And us Auburn fans can speak to that based on experience.  May y'all should start tracking flights that the UT plane takes. At the very least it would make for some interesting internet fodder; and at the most, it would uncover a calndestine coaching search. Regardless, it would be a win/win for VTTW in terms of traffic.

There is, I might point out, a difference between a coach who has had success and one who has not, in this context.

Still, better to avoid the PR if possible.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2012, 12:58:58 EDT »

It was handled badly, but just because neither of the successors were the right choice to replace him doesn't mean it was a mistake to fire him.


A very good point.   That battle is long past, and there is no need to re-hash it now on the merits, but it does offer some lessons for the current situation.

Specfically, while the 2008 criticism was justified, my opinion all along was that the 2007 criticism, which in turn led to the questionable extension by Hamilton, was unjustified.  Yes, there needed to be improvements, but to even discuss firing a coach who went 9-3 in the regular season and arguably a play or two from the SEC championship was just ludicrous.

That set up the situation in 2008 that was almost unwinnable for Fulmer.  We were almost certain to take a step back without Ainge, and if 9-3 and the SECCG was unacceptable, then how could he possibly satisfy anyone in 2008?   And it's my opinion...right or wrong...that the negative vibes around Fulmer at the beginning of 2008 made it harder to succeed.  Everything was under scrutiny and fans had no patience, and frankly the program was just steeped in negativity.  It ultimately led to Hamilton losing his nerve and firing Fulmer just 6 months after defending him and giving him a contract extension. 

This is relevant to the current situation in the following way.  If we had a coach with a 75% win record and an MNC let go and replaced in a way that went south, and now we are hovering around 500 every year, then how bad can it get if we fizzle up the replacement of Dooley, if and when that occurs?

All of which is to say that arbitrarily deciding the third game of the season is make or break...maybe not the right way to do things.   

Particularly if the perception was that our opponent was not any good, but is actually currently no 2 in the BCS.   

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BanditVol
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« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2012, 01:03:04 EDT »

And let me add, that Dooley has certainly not done himself any favors recently.  The performance of the defense recently has been about as bad at UT as it has ever been.

So to me, the season is still playing out. 

I say we take our best shot at USCe and ... the source of all evil in the world. 

It's possible that Dooley could upset bama and not buy more than another year, but I don't GAS, I just want to beat those fizzleers.   :
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2012, 01:20:00 EDT »

U have a link

I'm on my phone and don't feel like digging for it.  It was referenced on another board.
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Cobbvol
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« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2012, 07:57:32 EDT »

I know there are at least 2 divided camps on this, but I am of the opinion that he should remain as our coach. When he was hired in 2010 after no other coach wanted the position, I thought it was a 4-5 year re-building effort giving where we were and the competition. I still believe that today as we are in year 2.5 of the re-building effort. Reasons I think he stays are:

1. He was given a 6 year contract in 2010. That term length tells me that the UT brass knew of the effort required and they are committed to the timeframe.

2. I think HC Dooley and AD Hart were on the same page with the Sunseri hire knowing of the scheme change and the time required to learn and implement the new system. Another reason that I think they are committed to the timeframe to re-build.

3. With the $5M buyout, plus the UT Asst Coaches buyout, plus with the buyout of any new coach/staff - will not allow UT get a "home run hire" many people are wishing for.

4. In 2010, nobody other than HC Dooley wanted the job. Granted it is more appealing today after the effort by HC Dooley, but I still do not see a potential HC that brings the "reward" to the "risk" of firing HC Dooley and letting everyone say UT is hiring a 4th HC coach in 6 years.

5. The situation that HC Dooley agreed to fix, is one where we had 3 coaches in 3 years with all the change and attrition that this brings. I do not know of another program ever to have 3 coaches in 3 years. Maybe there is a few, but it is a very short list and I highly doubt they played in the SEC.

6. In regards to the competition, to say we are going to improve, the "pie theorem" must be applied. It states that there are a fixed number of wins in the conference each year. So if you say you are going to improve in the SEC East, you have to like wise say which team you are taking a slice of pie from. Today, that is easier said than done.

7. And finally, Jimmy Chitwood will not play next year if coach is let go ... "coach stays".
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BanditVol
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« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2012, 08:14:49 EDT »

I'm on my phone and don't feel like digging for it.  It was referenced on another board.


I did see a play on the tape, on their TD after the short field fumble (mid 4th) where we appeared to have ten players, but the camera did not pan to include the whole end zone, so it's not possible to be sure.  FWIW.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2012, 08:18:21 EDT »

I know there are at least 2 divided camps on this, but I am of the opinion that he should remain as our coach. When he was hired in 2010 after no other coach wanted the position, I thought it was a 4-5 year re-building effort giving where we were and the competition. I still believe that today as we are in year 2.5 of the re-building effort. Reasons I think he stays are:

1. He was given a 6 year contract in 2010. That term length tells me that the UT brass knew of the effort required and they are committed to the timeframe.

2. I think HC Dooley and AD Hart were on the same page with the Sunseri hire knowing of the scheme change and the time required to learn and implement the new system. Another reason that I think they are committed to the timeframe to re-build.

3. With the $5M buyout, plus the UT Asst Coaches buyout, plus with the buyout of any new coach/staff - will not allow UT get a "home run hire" many people are wishing for.

4. In 2010, nobody other than HC Dooley wanted the job. Granted it is more appealing today after the effort by HC Dooley, but I still do not see a potential HC that brings the "reward" to the "risk" of firing HC Dooley and letting everyone say UT is hiring a 4th HC coach in 6 years.

5. The situation that HC Dooley agreed to fix, is one where we had 3 coaches in 3 years with all the change and attrition that this brings. I do not know of another program ever to have 3 coaches in 3 years. Maybe there is a few, but it is a very short list and I highly doubt they played in the SEC.

6. In regards to the competition, to say we are going to improve, the "pie theorem" must be applied. It states that there are a fixed number of wins in the conference each year. So if you say you are going to improve in the SEC East, you have to like wise say which team you are taking a slice of pie from. Today, that is easier said than done.

7. And finally, Jimmy Chitwood will not play next year if coach is let go ... "coach stays".

Some good points in there.  Bammer went through Franchione, Price(? - the strippr guy) and then Shula, but Price never even coached a game, so it' sno the same.

Is Jimmy Chitwood a kind of "generic player name"?
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WoodstockVol
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« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2012, 10:46:40 EDT »

Some good points in there.  Bammer went through Franchione, Price(? - the strippr guy) and then Shula, but Price never even coached a game, so it' sno the same.

Is Jimmy Chitwood a kind of "generic player name"?

Watch the movie Hoosiers
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