Drew Richmond credits God for going to OM

[Volznut]

"Just the other day, honestly. I never would've thought I was going to Ole Miss. I thought I'd be at Ohio State, but this is where God led me and how it kind of worked out for me."

Yes Drew. God has nothing better to do that worry about where some football player on a tiny dot in the Milky way and even tinier dot in the Universe - is going. That is his big concern. Supernovas, gamma rays, pulsars, and black holes be damned.

[Creek Walker]

If God is powerful enough to create all those supernovas, gamma rays, etc., he isn't big enough to concern himself with that and the welfare of one of his creation simultaneously?

You realize there are millions of Americans from all walks of life who credit God with their direction in life. Are you prepared to ridicule each and every one of them?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Are you prepared to ridicule each and every one of them?

Unfortunately, yes. That seems to be a pattern for him. 

Indian is a cordial enough guy on every issue other than religion, but that is an area that he can't have a discussion without it getting personal and insulting. 

[VinnieVOL]

Yes, my God cares about every detail of my life. 

[Volznut]

If God is powerful enough to create all those supernovas, gamma rays, etc., he isn't big enough to concern himself with that and the welfare of one of his creation simultaneously?

You realize there are millions of Americans from all walks of life who credit God with their direction in life. Are you prepared to ridicule each and every one of them?

If they're all saying it on a public forum, sure.

[Volznut]

Unfortunately, yes. That seems to be a pattern for him. 

Indian is a cordial enough guy on every issue other than religion, but that is an area that he can't have a discussion without it getting personal and insulting. 

Huh? When have I insulted you on this? I have stated my feelings on religion and God on another forum and had civil discussions on it. I have no issue with people believing in whatever God they want as long as they understand that I don't need their believe shoved in my face either. Believe me, I have had people's religious beliefs shoved in my face more that I care for.

Yes, I do find it ridiculous when an athlete starts crediting God for their decision and I will say that. I find religion to be more harmful than good, and the idea of God as defined by major religions as nothing but an exercise in ego, disguised as humility.

[Creek Walker]

Here's my problem with this conversation. Obviously everyone has a right to believe whatever they want to believe. But let's say, just for the sake of argument, that someone ridiculed a public figure on this forum for their sexual preference. Who would be the first person to cry foul? My guess is you. In fact, it was you who posted a snarky comment on my post a few weeks ago about Glory Johnson...and I certainly wasn't ridiculing her.

So why should everyone from minorities to folks who engage in alternative lifestyles be off-limits, but Christians (or any other religion) be subject to ridicule? In fact, isn't it ironic that you claim you're sick of religious viewpoints being "shoved in your face," which is the EXACT same argument that the anti-homosexuality segment of the population uses to argue their viewpoints? The same sauce that's good for the goose is good for the gander, you know.

Personally, I have a hard time condoning ridicule of anyone for their beliefs, whether those beliefs are religious in nature or otherwise. But the truth is that taking a pot-shot at an 18-year-old football player for his religious beliefs (especially when that comment is in large part because you're angry he didn't choose your school; let's face it -- if he said God was leading him to Tennessee, you would've never made this post) is no different than if I were taking pot-shots at you because of your nationality or if I were taking pot-shots at anyone else who I deem as "different." A bigot is a bigot is a bigot...whether it's a bigot trying to shame someone for their sexual preference or a bigot trying to shame someone for their religious beliefs.

So he credited God with helping him make his decision to go to Ole Miss. How is that harmful to the world? You do realize that Peyton Manning credited God with helping him decide to stay at Tennessee for his senior season? That Phil Fulmer credited God with helping the Vols win a national championship?

So tell me, what is it about an 18-year-old kid saying God helped him decide which school to attend that prompts a 40-something-year-old guy to scorn him on the internet? And which one is really an exercise in ego?

[Volznut]

So tell me, what is it about an 18-year-old kid saying God helped him decide which school to attend that prompts a 40-something-year-old guy to scorn him on the internet? And which one is really an exercise in ego?

Well, for one thing, it's a crux. It's an excercise in ego on a human level, because humans tend to credit God for everything they don't know about, or can't explain. Not everyone, but yes, it's the main idea behind faith. You can't explain everything in the universe, no human can, so humans come up with the concept of faith and treat is as if it's a great thing. I think it's a terrible thing. It's human ego - we can't explain everything so it must be God. I don't have faith. I either know something, or say I don't know. I am ok with saying I don't know.

I don't find the comparison with the Glory Johnson thing as apples to apples. One is real. One cannot be substantiated. You are comparing what someone IS to what someone believes. Big difference. I am not ridiculing Richmond..I am saying that what he is saying is BS, and cannot be proven.  Oh and it does not matter if 100,000 people back it - I know most people in the world believe in some sort of God. It's a personal choice by each and every one of them. That's fine. For me it doesn't make sense. Most people once believed that the world was flat....until proven otherwise.

I know I'm in the minority - the US is about 8-10% atheist. It's belief vs non belief. There are more in other parts of the world. If you take it personally if I call out some athlete for crediting God,  that is your problem, I didn't call you out. If someone is going to publically say that, then I have no problem stating what I did. It's his opinion and it's mine. Furthermore I think it's BS. Age has no bearing on it.

 

[SmokeyJoe]

"Just the other day, honestly. I never would've thought I was going to Ole Miss. I thought I'd be at Ohio State, but this is where God led me and how it kind of worked out for me."

Yes Drew. God has nothing better to do that worry about where some football player on a tiny dot in the Milky way and even tinier dot in the Universe - is going. That is his big concern. Supernovas, gamma rays, pulsars, and black holes be damned.

[10EC]

Politivol... That is where this belongs.  

Now, about OU and the game to be remembered for all time...  Lord knows we need one.

[Volznut]

Personally I believe in probabilities. I think it's much more likely shenanigans, maybe legal, maybe illegal, than divine intervention. Saying it was Divine intervention gets most everyone on your side though....it's a smart move.

[RockinGrannyVol]

Personally I believe in probabilities. I think it's much more likely shenanigans, maybe legal, maybe illegal, than divine intervention. Saying it was Divine intervention gets most everyone on your side though....it's a smart move.

I think the point of everyone here is that, why ridicule him....whether you agree, disagree or think he's a nut case....there is no reason to ridicule him for HIS beliefs, just as it isn't our place to ridicule you for YOUR beliefs.   That's all.   Love you Nut!

[Volznut]

I think the point of everyone here is that, why ridicule him....whether you agree, disagree or think he's a nut case....there is no reason to ridicule him for HIS beliefs, just as it isn't our place to ridicule you for YOUR beliefs.   That's all.   Love you Nut!

I'm not ridiculing him. I'm calling him out for being FOS. He's simply using it so he can gain support for his decision. I have seen too many people make that statement to support their actions (including really big time POS athletes like Ray Lewis) and gain credibility. It isn't even about his beliefs, it's about hypocrisy.

[10EC]

I'm not ridiculing him. I'm calling him out for being FOS. He's simply using it so he can gain support for his decision. I have seen too many people make that statement to support their actions (including really big time POS athletes like Ray Lewis) and gain credibility. It isn't even about his beliefs, it's about hypocrisy.

Politivol

[RockinGrannyVol]

You have no  way of knowing that Nut.....so you are judging him because you don't believe what he believes.    I've made many decisions in my life that I felt God led me to make......doesn't make it wrong or hypocrisy just because you don't believe he led me to those choices.

Bottom line....don't judge anyone just because they aren't like you or don't believe like you.   You are judging

[Volznut]

You have no  way of knowing that Nut.....so you are judging him because you don't believe what he believes.    I've made many decisions in my life that I felt God led me to make......doesn't make it wrong or hypocrisy just because you don't believe he led me to those choices.

Bottom line....don't judge anyone just because they aren't like you or don't believe like you.   You are judging

Maybe so...I am definitely jaded on athletes who do it because I have seen too many hypocrites when it comes to athletes, and have a hard time believing in their sincerity.

[Creek Walker]

Well, for one thing, it's a crux. It's an excercise in ego on a human level, because humans tend to credit God for everything they don't know about, or can't explain. Not everyone, but yes, it's the main idea behind faith. You can't explain everything in the universe, no human can, so humans come up with the concept of faith and treat is as if it's a great thing. I think it's a terrible thing. It's human ego - we can't explain everything so it must be God. I don't have faith. I either know something, or say I don't know. I am ok with saying I don't know.

Au contraire, the idea of faith as a crutch to explain what is otherwise unexplainable is a way for non-believers to simplify a complex subject. I'm speaking from the standpoint of protestant Christians, but the central, revolving point of the faith of just about any believer I know has little or nothing to do with the origins of the universe or life and the other things around us that we cannot explain. Until you've felt -- truly felt -- the presence of God in your life, faith cannot be explained. There are two ways to approach that. Some choose to live and let live. Others choose to ridicule. I have plenty of respect for the former, very little for the latter. Because, let's face it: Is there really a difference between ridiculing Christians and ridiculing someone who's gay (or any other subgroup of people)? At the end of the day, it's all about chastising people simply because they're different from us, have different values than we have. So, as I said, bigotry is bigotry.

[JeffCountyVolFan]

God has led me to make many decisions in my life.  I firmly believe that!  That statement is neither hypocritical nor egotistical, in my humble opinion. 

I think it is blatantly egotistical, obnoxious, and hypocritical for anyone to attempt to tell me otherwise - because they have no way of knowing whether it is true or not.

Granny nailed this one!

[Volznut]

Au contraire, the idea of faith as a crutch to explain what is otherwise unexplainable is a way for non-believers to simplify a complex subject. I'm speaking from the standpoint of protestant Christians, but the central, revolving point of the faith of just about any believer I know has little or nothing to do with the origins of the universe or life and the other things around us that we cannot explain. Until you've felt -- truly felt -- the presence of God in your life, faith cannot be explained. There are two ways to approach that. Some choose to live and let live. Others choose to ridicule. I have plenty of respect for the former, very little for the latter. Because, let's face it: Is there really a difference between ridiculing Christians and ridiculing someone who's gay (or any other subgroup of people)? At the end of the day, it's all about chastising people simply because they're different from us, have different values than we have. So, as I said, bigotry is bigotry.

What you're saying is faith has to be "felt" or experienced. That's fine. I will have to take your word for it though, since it "cannot be explained".  I have not felt or experienced it. I guess God is selective?

Just FTR most people I have ever heard ridiculing gay people call themselves devout Christians. Many Muslims I know also do the same thing. Live and let live? So yeah... I don't have much respect for dogma.   

In my experience, prejudice leads to stereotypes, stereotyping leads to racism/homophobia, etc. We all have some prejudices, hopefully most of us stop there.

 I still say that the God he was referring to was the God of money.

[Volznut]

God has led me to make many decisions in my life.  I firmly believe that!  That statement is neither hypocritical nor egotistical, in my humble opinion. 

I think it is blatantly egotistical, obnoxious, and hypocritical for anyone to attempt to tell me otherwise - because they have no way of knowing whether it is true or not.

Granny nailed this one!

I wouldn't say that is egotistical or hypocritical statement. If you truly believe that, you believe that. That isn't what I was saying anyway, that is a much more personal statement.

I think the egotistical part of religion is for humans to not accept the fact that we don't know how most of the things in the Universe work, and came to be, and attempt to explain it by saying what we don't know can be attributed to God. It's as if to say, we know all there is to know, no need to go further, it's Gods will. In fact, that dogma has really hampered the Islam religion and its progress. Muslims were not always that way. If scientists truly went with that, we would never have made many of the discoveries and inventions we made. I think over the last 200 years people other than Muslims have made a lot of progress in that regard. In general that has also caused much of the rift between Muslims and other people.

Again, it's a sweeping  and general statement on human history that doesn't necessarily apply to every person for every situation.

 

[JeffCountyVolFan]

Volznut, I will accept that. Your original remark, however, seemed to mock the fact that God would see one human as being relevant.  I simply don't believe that is true.

Ok back to lurking! I apologize if I have been offensive to anyone here.

[Creek Walker]

What you're saying is faith has to be "felt" or experienced. That's fine. I will have to take your word for it though, since it "cannot be explained".  I have not felt or experienced it. I guess God is selective?

No, that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you have true faith, you will experience God's presence. I firmly believe that. But faith is not a prerequisite to feel God's presence, nor is feeling God's presence a prerequisite for building faith. Saul of Tarsus was a bounty hunter for a Roman high priest...his job was to track down believers of the fledgling Christian religion and have them jailed or executed. By his own account, he had a life-altering encounter with God on the Damascus Road...from that, he converted to Christianity and went on to become the most influential person within the Christian faith (other than Jesus himself, of course) and wrote the majority of the New Testament. Saul of Tarsus wasn't seeking God; he had no faith. But God found him. So there are no prerequisites.

Is God selective? That's a question I can't answer. Maybe. Maybe not. I prefer to think not. But I have nothing to support that. In fact, the writings of Paul and other apostles would seem to suggest otherwise.

But I guess my main point takes me back to Paul the Apostle. We know from secular history that Saul of Tarsus wasn't a myth. Deists can argue the merits of his teachings, but it's hard to deny that he existed. And we know from the record that exists that he was gainfully employed and in the favor of some of Rome's biggest movers and shakers. If the Christian faith is shallow enough to only be an attempt for humans, in their finite comprehensive abilities, to shrug off what they cannot explain, what did Saul have to gain by converting to Christianity? He lost his job, he fell out of favor with the government -- even wound up an outcast and was later imprisoned. Whatever happened to Saul/Paul along his journey between Jerusalem and Damascus, it was enough to cause him the rest of his life telling everyone that Jesus was exactly who he said he was when he claimed to be the son of the one true God.

I won't claim to have all the answers about basic Christian beliefs, but one thing I'm sure of: it is a lot deeper than an egotistical attempt to explain the unexplainable. Paul is proof of that, and there's plenty of other proof as well. Frankly, I find the idea that God appears in visions to modern people or that they audibly hear his voice, or that he gives certain people healing powers or other supernatural abilities to be completely absurd. But that doesn't mean God doesn't manifest himself to his people. I've experienced it. Even when I haven't deserved it, by the tenets of Christianity, I have experienced it...as have most other Christians.

I can tell you that my faith doesn't revolve around an attempt to explain the origins of life and the universe. And remember that when Christianity was born, there really wasn't much debate about the origins of life and the universe. Jew and Gentile alike believed that God created it all. The new faith was based on the merits of Jesus Christ as the son of God. And that's where my faith is centered. I don't need to explain away what I can't explain. Certainly I love to debate creation vs. evolution, but I don't need anything to prop up my belief that it's impossible for something to have come from nothing unless someone created it. My faith is centered around this basic fact: Secular history as well as religious history tells us that there was a Jewish rabbi named Jesus who claimed to be the son of God, who was arrested and executed for his teachings, and whose body was never seen again...which is, of course, in line with what prophets had written in books that we now know as the Old Testament hundreds of years before his birth and in line with what he himself taught for years before his death.

[BanditVol]

Nut...tying faith to simply trying to explain the unexplainable is a gross oversimplification of what many, if not most, Christians believe.  It has been true in the past, certainly.  It may still be true for people not blessed with the education that some of us have had.  But there is far more to God than that.  I have recently been studying very deeply the concept of the mind of God as described in the first chapter of John, and it turns out that it has very deep roots in both Jewish and Greek thought, and that these strands were united by Christ.

At some level, the mind of God is the force that drives the entire universe, but that is a wholly indequate statement.  Another way of looking at it is that God is portrayed as a sentient being and we are sentient.  God created, we create.  Of all that we see around us, including animals, humans (so far as we know) are the only ones who question, reason, look for meaning, create art, technology, commerce, etc.  Compared to the unverse and even other forms of life, there is something very unique about us.  We have in us the "God spark" that is the part of us that is divine.  When Genesis says God "breathed his spirit" into Adam (a story I think is highly allegorical) the literally translation from Hebrew is "breathed life into him". Later Paul makes the comment that "in Him we live a breath and have our being".

All of this I say not to try and convert you, but to assure you that the concept of God is much, much deeper than the cartoon you paint, and that, though I cannot say for certain I think many or even most Christians have this deeper insight. 

There is also a minimalist vs a maximalist view of God that is possible.  The maximalist view is that God intervenes in  each and every activity of our life, no matter how trivial.  Which is certainly possible but it's not necessary to believe that to have faith.  The minimalist view is that God is just an idea or concept that reflects  a deeper truth in the universe.  That is possible, though I don't believe that.  But even if "He" is "just an idea", then God has been an extremly beneficial idea that IMO DOES reflect universal truths accurately.  My view is somewhere in between, though in the past I have swung to both extremes.  At the end of the day, I don't know for sure but I do have faith.  I use reason to gain knoledge of God but that only takes me so far.  Beyond a point, faith is necessary.

My belief is that God is a literal being who created the universe, but at the same time, I have no idea what that means completely.  God is so far beyond humanity that "He" is ultimately ncomprehesible.

As for God paying attention to an 18 year old, if one follows God and models his behavior on what he or she thinks God wants them to do, then in a sense "God is inside them" in spirit and guides their decisions.  God need not be a supreme being constantly answering "the prayer phone" which is the pastiche you seem to want to paint.  God is...the Bible says over and over and over again...a SPIRIT.  A spirit is intangible and can, as it says in Hebrews "penetrate to our innermost being". Thus, if Drew or anyone else follows Christ and models his behavior on Christ, then "Christ lives in him" and he makes decisions that are healthy for his life.  God can let the "Holy Spirit" go on auto-pilot for indviduals, in other words.  Following God means having "the right stuff" inside you where ultimately it defines who you are.  We are not these shells we inhabit but beings of spirit which is a reflection of the intangible mind of God.  (we are "created in his image"...not a PHYSICAL image certainly, but a SPIRITUAL one...thus a thing of the mind).

What guides one's behavior?  At the end of the day, our behavior is based on deeply held beliefs about what is right and wrong.  Therefore those are of utmost importance!  The function of God in human life is, among other things, to provide the guidance of what is right and wrong...which often flies in the face of human wisdom.

I could go on about this all day...ooops already did.   

[Volznut]

Volznut, I will accept that. Your original remark, however, seemed to mock the fact that God would see one human as being relevant.  I simply don't believe that is true.

Ok back to lurking! I apologize if I have been offensive to anyone here.

Well, that isn't fact. That is your belief. A fact has to have tangible proof to back it up.

 I can respect your belief, but I don't agree with you on that. I don't mean offense.

[Volznut]

Creek walker, and bandit: trust me, I know the concept of God is deeply rooted and complex. I have studied it, not only from a Christian perspective, but from a Hindu, Muslim, and Buddhist perspective as well. Buddhism is an atheistic religion anyway. My parents were Hindu but they never forced me or indoctrinated me into religion. It was always my choice.

The concept of something coming from nothing... Technically, nothing (truly nothing) cannot even be defined or shown. One cannot say "Something cannot come from nothing", because no one can define or show what truly "nothing" is. If one were to say "God" created it, then what created God? Is he "nothing"? We truly cannot comprehend it, but my approach isn't to just put it on faith, I'd rather just say I don't know, but if we will ever find out, we'll find out through science. Not sure it will happen.

Most scientists advocate the big bang theory because it is the closest thing we have to an explanation, based on scientific observations and mathematics. I can accept it.

You know, if we want to actually understand why we are here, we should consider the 4 universal forces - strong, weak, EMF, and gravity. Without gravity, the galaxies and stars would not have formed and there would have been no life. Gravity truly created us. 

I'm not a spiritual guy in the religious sense. I do medidate daily and it's excellent for health purposes and to clear the mind. I don't believe in faith, destiny, an afterlife, or that "everything that happens has a purpose". I think the universe works on cause and effect, and everything has a beginning, is preserved, and ends. Everything. I don't think humans are any more special than any other form of life. I don't think that we're all that important in the grand scheme of things. Some of the philosophical concepts behind Hinduism do ring true with me, but I don't subscribe to the higher power aspects of it. 

Maybe the whole thing is just a big ass experiment.