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Author Topic: What's y'alls opinion of the Adrian Peterson story. My main issue is that there  (Read 15439 times)
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10EC
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2014, 03:50:34 EDT »

So why is it ok to do the same if it's your four year old?

False equivalency.
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Volznut
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2014, 04:19:47 EDT »

False equivalency.


How so? Abuse is abuse, whether I do it to my child or someone else's. Both are illegal, wrong, and should be.

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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2014, 04:21:48 EDT »

If I went out, found some four year old and beat him with a switch, I'd be arrested for assault of a child and child abuse. People would hate me and I'd get a jail sentence. So why is it ok to do the same if it's your four year old? Abuse is abuse.


If I took money out of your bank account to pay off my house, it would be a crime.  So why is it OK for me to take money out of my account to do the same thing?  A crime is a crime?

Maybe not the greatest analogy, but you get my drift?

The difference is that I am responsible for discipline where my child is concerned.  You are not.  You have no right to discipline my child (unless you have been legally appointed to do so).

Now, I will be the first to admit that corporal punishment can be criminal if not administered in the right way and for the right reasons.  There are those who abuse this.  I will add, though, that almost anything can be made into something negative if not used, administered, or handled correctly.
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2014, 04:35:08 EDT »

My dad, in my lifetime, has done MANY wonderful things for me.  He continues, through my mother, to do for me even today (he can't directly because he has dimentia).

He paid for my college education, he helped me buy my first car, he fed me, he clothed me, he taught me right from wrong.  So many wonderful things he taught me.

The best thing he ever did for me, though, was to 'wear me out' (spank my behind) for making a C in science when I was a sixth grader.  He also grounded me in addition to the spanking.  That spanking was the best thing he ever gave me.  You see, education was not important to me (it didn't involve a girl or a ball and so I wasn't that interested in it).  I would have been happy with C's - heck, I would have been OK with D's.

With that spanking, however, he taught me that only my best was good enough.  He knew that education was important, and he made it important to me.  He taught me that anything less than my best was not good enough.  I didn't make any more C's.  I got a great education, not because I really cared about it, but because I had to in order to satisfy my parents.  I was young and was not intelligent enough to know that education was important.

I was able to go to college and get a degree in electrical engineering because of that spanking.  If not for that, I would most likely have ended up working in the coal mines of southern West Virginia (where I was born and raised).  Had he let me get by with that first C, I would have tested the waters by making a couple of C's.  If a couple of C's had been allowed, I would have tried D's to see if they would fly.  Pretty soon, I would have been making all C's and D's (and I would have been perfectly OK with that).

Throughout my childhood I received many spankings, switchin's.  Many of them were very hurtful, at least in the short term.  Even though some were hurtful (and some of them even left a bruise, a stripe on the legs, etc) NONE of them were ever abusive.  Each and every one of them was helpful.  I am blessed to have received them!
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Volznut
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2014, 04:36:15 EDT »

If I took money out of your bank account to pay off my house, it would be a crime.  So why is it OK for me to take money out of my account to do the same thing?  A crime is a crime?

Maybe not the greatest analogy, but you get my drift?

The difference is that I am responsible for discipline where my child is concerned.  You are not.  You have no right to discipline my child (unless you have been legally appointed to do so).

Now, I will be the first to admit that corporal punishment can be criminal if not administered in the right way and for the right reasons.  There are those who abuse this.  I will add, though, that almost anything can be made into something negative if not used, administered, or handled correctly.

What? That's a terrible analogy man. No I don't get your drift. You taking your own money out isn't a crime. You abusing your kid is. Sure you are responsible for your child's discipline, but you can't abuse him, that is a crime. So the question is, do you consider a grown ass 230 lb man beating a 4 year old with a switch so much that it bleeds and leaves marks abuse ? We're not talking about a slap on the butt here. Doesn't matter if it's his dad...it's abuse.



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PirateVOL
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2014, 04:38:43 EDT »

What? That's a terrible analogy man. No I don't get your drift. You taking your own money out isn't a crime. You abusing your kid is. Sure you are responsible for your child's discipline, but you can't abuse him, that is a crime. So the question is, do you consider a grown ass 230 lb man beating a 4 year old with a switch so much that it bleeds and leaves marks abuse ? We're not talking about a slap on the butt here. Doesn't matter if it's his dad...it's abuse.




No, not really
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Volznut
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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2014, 04:40:32 EDT »

No, not really

No not really what?



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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2014, 04:58:26 EDT »

What? That's a terrible analogy man. No I don't get your drift. You taking your own money out isn't a crime. You abusing your kid is. Sure you are responsible for your child's discipline, but you can't abuse him, that is a crime. So the question is, do you consider a grown ass 230 lb man beating a 4 year old with a switch so much that it bleeds and leaves marks abuse ? We're not talking about a slap on the butt here. Doesn't matter if it's his dad...it's abuse.


I guess its a terrible analogy to you because you disagree with it.  I think it is a pretty good parallel, because I don't abuse my child when I spank him.

If you had bothered to read my entire post above you would have seen this:
"Now, I will be the first to admit that corporal punishment can be criminal if not administered in the right way and for the right reasons.  There are those who abuse this.  I will add, though, that almost anything can be made into something negative if not used, administered, or handled correctly."

Actually, you probably did read that.  You probably ignored that part of the post because it didn't fit into your rebuttal, I guess.  
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 05:09:29 EDT by JeffCountyVolFan » Logged
Creek Walker
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2014, 05:19:04 EDT »

Well, let's be fair: Volznut's comparison is pretty terrible too. What's the difference between me spanking my own child and someone else doing it? Um...how about THE LAW?

In Tennessee, the statute is pretty clear — any injuries beyond temporary redness (cuts, bruises, etc.) could be considered child abuse and warrant an investigation by the Department of Children's Services. Short of that, corporal punishment is okay. In Tennessee, if you hit a stranger's child, you'll be arrested and charged with felony child abuse.

I don't see why we're even having this conversation. To Volznut, you may be abusing your child if you spank them but, fortunately and thankfully, the law disagrees with him.
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10EC
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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2014, 05:25:15 EDT »


I was going to go with "Why is not ok for me to sleep with your wife but ok for me to sleep with mine"

Yours was probably better

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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2014, 05:29:44 EDT »

Well, let's be fair: Volznut's comparison is pretty terrible too. What's the difference between me spanking my own child and someone else doing it? Um...how about THE LAW?

In Tennessee, the statute is pretty clear — any injuries beyond temporary redness (cuts, bruises, etc.) could be considered child abuse and warrant an investigation by the Department of Children's Services. Short of that, corporal punishment is okay. In Tennessee, if you hit a stranger's child, you'll be arrested and charged with felony child abuse.

I don't see why we're even having this conversation. To Volznut, you may be abusing your child if you spank them but, fortunately and thankfully, the law disagrees with him.

Again, I clearly am talking about using a switch on a 4 year old, NOT spanking. There is a big difference

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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2014, 05:30:16 EDT »

10EC, that's funny because I actually had the same thought originally.  I actually started typing that and stopped mid-sentence.  
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Volznut
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« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2014, 05:33:51 EDT »

I guess its a terrible analogy to you because you disagree with it.  I think it is a pretty good parallel, because I don't abuse my child when I spank him.

If you had bothered to read my entire post above you would have seen this:
"Now, I will be the first to admit that corporal punishment can be criminal if not administered in the right way and for the right reasons.  There are those who abuse this.  I will add, though, that almost anything can be made into something negative if not used, administered, or handled correctly."

Actually, you probably did read that.  You probably ignored that part of the post because it didn't fit into your rebuttal, I guess.  

I read the whole thing. It isn't about what I agree with. You made a comparison of a legal act (taking out your own money) to an illegal one (abusing your kid) and made them out to be the same. I didn't make that up. I hate to repeat, but I am talking about abuse. I am not talking about you spanking your kid, I am talking about A Peterson hitting his kid so gard with a switch that is caused this :




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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2014, 05:35:40 EDT »

Again, I clearly am talking about using a switch on a 4 year old, NOT spanking. There is a big difference


I got '"switchin's" as a 4 year old child.  Probably even as a 2 or 3 year old, though I can't remember that far back.  None were abusive or criminal.  They were given out of love.

I don't see it as criminal if done correctly.  I used a switch on my son when he was that old and I didn't abuse him.

There are folks who probably think it was abusive, and some of those probably see my actions as criminal.  I disagree with them.

Its all in how its administered, imo.
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2014, 05:40:37 EDT »

You made a comparison of a legal act (taking out your own money) to an illegal one (abusing your kid) and made them out to be the same. I didn't make that up. I hate to repeat, but I am talking about abuse. I am not talking about you spanking your kid, I am talking about A Peterson hitting his kid so gard with a switch that is caused this :


It is not illegal to discipline your child through the use of corporal punishment.  Even with a switch.

Do I think using a switch could be abusive?  Yes.   Do I think using a belt/ruler/razor strap/paddle could be abusive?  Yes.

Are they always abusive?  No, not in my opinion.

Could a scolding be abusive?  Yes.

I actually agreed with you, to a degree, in the earlier post with the analogy.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:52:57 EDT by JeffCountyVolFan » Logged
JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2014, 05:53:00 EDT »

Do I think Peterson went too far?  Yes. 

I will say this: I have had marks similar to that from switchings.  I don't think I every actually bled from one of mom's switchings, though, and I know my wife nor I ever made our son bleed. 

To me, the number of lashings he has is even more a factor in it being abusive than is the small amount of blood.  It would appear that this child was struck more than 10 times.

I never gave, nor received, more than 3 lashings at a time (at least I can't remember ever getting more than that).  A little goes a long way!
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Volznut
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« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2014, 06:55:53 EDT »

jeffco, I think the crux of it is this.... it's a generational thing. 30 years ago, for the most part, people who were raising kids at the time had no issue with corporal punishment, so they look at the AP case and shrug. Now, for the most part, parents with small kids have issues with it. So, things, laws, and perceptions have changed. That's usually the norm. People who have kids at the time are going to be making the rules about it, and they should.

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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2014, 07:31:34 EDT »

Volznut, I do not disagree with that.  Perceptions change, they are indeed shaped by the times.  I would guess that members of younger generations, in general, are less likely to use corporal punishment.  Whether that is right or wrong is an individual thing.

I will say that, as a member of one of the older generations, it looks like Peterson crossed the line.  That doesn't mean that I think using a switch, or using corporal punishment are necessarily criminal.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:51:20 EDT by JeffCountyVolFan » Logged
Volznut
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« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2014, 09:14:16 EDT »

Volznut, I do not disagree with that.  Perceptions change, they are indeed shaped by the times.  I would guess that members of younger generations, in general, are less likely to use corporal punishment.  Whether that is right or wrong is an individual thing.

I will say that, as a member of one of the older generations, it looks like Peterson crossed the line.  That doesn't mean that I think using a switch, or using corporal punishment are necessarily criminal.

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