Down three scores

[SmokeyJoe]

Yep.  When you hire MAC/CUSA level coaches, you get MAC/CUSA level coaching decisions. 

One or 51 - doesn't matter.  It's still a loss.  There are no such things as moral victories or "not as bad a loss" in the SEC.

Nick Satan started as a HC at Toledo. Just stop.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Nick Satan started as a HC at Toledo. Just stop.

Stop?  Stop what?  Voicing my opinion? 

[midtnvol]

Stop?  Stop what?  Voicing my opinion? 

I started out as a Jr. High basketball coach now look at me.....OK maybe that's not a good example but you get my drift. 

[SmokeyJoe]

Stop?  Stop what?  Voicing my opinion?

Well I just debunked your opinion, but carry on.

[Tnphil]

I'd say Saban's experience prior to his first HC job exceeds Butch's experience.

Kent State
Syracuse
West Vir
Ohio State
Navy
Michigan State
Houston Oilers
Toledo-Head coach


Butch

Wilkes
Ferris State
Central Michigan
West Vir.
Central Mich- Head coach.

 

[BanditVol]

OK then it was still a good call. The situation was with around 35 seconds to go in the half we had the ball with fourth and about 2-3 yds to get a first down. We are in field goal range and we let the clock run down to 3 secs then we kick the field goal. If we run a play quickly and don't make it then they get he ball with nearly half a minute to go some 80 yards with two time outs. Now before anyone says how unlikely they could do that remember how long their first possession lasted. There is considerable difference between being theee TDs down and two tds and a field goal. I defended his decision when it happened and I still do.

I kind of wondered about the call.  Heck, I had a friend who was really upset we didn't go for it at the 50 in the second quarter on 4th and 1 against Ole Miss, and I texted him during the game "okay this time we should go for it".

At the same time, it wasn't an awful call. We had a whole half left, and in fact we did close the gap to 27-17, which, by my math is two scores.  Heck, we held them to just 7 points in the entire second half in fact.  In retrospect it wasn't a terrible call at all.

Now why we didn't double cover Cooper in the first quarter...that one still mystifies me.  

[HerbTarlekVol]

I started out as a Jr. High basketball coach now look at me.....OK maybe that's not a good example but you get my drift. 

So, the fact that Saban coached in the MAC means that Butch Jones is the next Nick Saban?  That's debunking my opinion? 

In your own mind, maybe.  We are still seeing MAC/CUSA level decisions being made by this coaching staff.

When Butch wins National Championships at two different SEC schools come and "debunk" me then. 

And by the way, Butch is no young pup in terms of coaching.  He is 46. He took over the UT program at 45, which is older than were Dickey, Battle, Majors, Fulmer, Kiffin, or Dooley when they were hired at UT.  Being "young" isn't an excuse for Butch. 

[SmokeyJoe]

Nobody is saying Saban isn't "great" he didn't start as a rock star though. He has earned his reputation. Still everybody starts somewhere. I don't understand why UT doesn't swing for the fences in coaching hires either. It is a more prosperous state than Alabama, and logically should have a stronger, booster base. Surprising really.

[BGHarper]

Nobody is saying Saban isn't "great" he didn't start as a rock star though. He has earned his reputation. Still everybody starts somewhere. I don't understand why UT doesn't swing for the fences in coaching hires either. It is a more prosperous state than Alabama, and logically should have a stronger, booster base. Surprising really.

Well, they did try to hit that home-run hire, but things didn't work out. I'm not convinced that had UT rounded the bases and touched home plate with the "big" hire that they would be in better shape than the present situation. I think Jones has done well due to his recruiting efforts which were priority no. 1. If you meant pushing for a much bigger hire than Dooley, then I completely agree. I thought that hire was a knee-jerk reaction to replace Kiffin with the antithesis being the good-ole southern boy who would know and respect the value of being at UT. Wrong reason to hire anybody.

As far as your state-by-state economic comparison and potential impact of a program's success, I doubt there is such a correlation since the less prosperous state of Alabama actually produces, not one, but two state schools that outperform UT with both schools holding all-time winning records against the Vols. The state of Alabama actually out produces, in a college football winning sense, far more economically successful states than Tennessee such as California, Texas and Florida. That competition between Alabama and Auburn yields a 365 day and a 24/7 effort to outperform the other. If they can outperform the other, then they can often exceed most any team.

BG

[BanditVol]

As far as your state-by-state economic comparison and potential impact of a program's success, I doubt there is such a correlation since the less prosperous state of Alabama actually produces not one but two state schools that outperform UT with both schools holding all-time winning records against the Vols. The state of Alabama actually out produces, in a college football winnining sense, far more economically successful states than Tennessee such as California, Texas and Florida. That competition between Alabama and Auburn yields a 365 day and a 24/7 effort to outperform the other. If they can outperform them, then they can exceed most any team.

And...sorry BG, but...

if only bammer had something else to feel good about, then maybe middle aged wimmen's wouldn't kick college boyz in the head, crazy ole nuts wouldn't poison trees, and ... peeps wouldn't get killed for saying the Heat is more important than bammer.

Truth hurts sometimes bro...

[BGHarper]

And...sorry BG, but...

if only bammer had something else to feel good about, then maybe middle aged wimmen's wouldn't kick college boyz in the head, crazy ole nuts wouldn't poison trees, and ... peeps wouldn't get killed for saying the Heat is more important than bammer.

Truth hurts sometimes bro...

What about my post do you disagree with?



BG

[Jedi Master]

UT fans should understand that CBJ is still a young coach who is growing in his HC role.  Not every decision he makes is going to be perfect.  By the time he restocks the roster with competitive SEC talent, he will have gained valuable experience in decisions to be made on-field (e.g., this field goal vs TD), in program development (e.g., when to play Dobbs), etc.  Much of his coaching growth will be from first-hand experience, trial and error. He may grow into the next Nick Saban, but UT fans shouldn't realistically expect that he is already at that level.  Be patient with him. 

[BGHarper]

UT fans should understand that CBJ is still a young coach who is growing in his HC role.  Not every decision he makes is going to be perfect.  By the time he restocks the roster with competitive SEC talent, he will have gained valuable experience in decisions to be made on-field (e.g., this field goal vs TD), in program development (e.g., when to play Dobbs), etc.  Much of his coaching growth will be from first-hand experience, trial and error. He may grow into the next Nick Saban, but UT fans shouldn't realistically expect that he is already at that level.  Be patient with him.  

Yep, and I'm beginning to think I've been more impressed by Jones than some Vols. Yes, UT should have beat the Gators, but that's just one game. The difference between last year's UT team and this year's team is one of toughness. Big difference between the two.

Edited to add, I thought your QB played very well, especially since he was getting next to nothing in terms of practice reps this fall as they are usually reserved for mostly the top two QB's. I don't usually judge the performance of a very inexperienced QB too harshly, as the difference between what a QB looks like as a true freshman vs. what they look like as an experienced senior is often so vastly different. I have no idea if he'll be the answer at QB, but in him the coaches at least have some tools to work with.


BG

 
 

[droner]

Yep, and I'm beginning to think I've been more impressed by Jones than some Vols. Yes, UT should have beat the Gators, but that's just one game. The difference between last year's UT team and this year's team is one of toughness. Big difference between the two.

BG

It's interesting. When I talk to fans of other SEC schools here, every one of them says that they are impressed with Butch and that they think he's going to get it done at UT.

[VOLMAN]

most wanting to see? Get competitive in recruiting again and coach the players up....we're getting players and there was huge improvement IMO from last year to this. Just how depleted our roster was when Butch took over due to Dooley's complete incompetence simply CANNOT be overly emphasized....you just don't snap back after 18 months from the kind of set back Dooley dealt us and expect to compete with the top tier of the SEC. Butch has the ship turning and we'll get there everyone just has to be realistic about the time and effort it will take.  

[BGHarper]

It's interesting. When I talk to fans of other SEC schools here, every one of them says that they are impressed with Butch and that they think he's going to get it done at UT.

Apparently so. Just read where a national writer for 247 Sports said Butch Jones was listed with other potential candidates by "sources" as someone Michigan may be interested in. Just another example of the grass being greener on the other side.

BG

[BanditVol]

What about my post do you disagree with?



BG

That you should have such an inordinate amount of pride in football...it don't mean squat at the end of the day.

But if I wanted to nitpick something specific, UT has more SEC titles, a better SEC win percentage, more wins, and a better overall win percentage than Auburn. It's true Auburn holds a small advantage in the head to head, but we don't give up anything to them and I think in terms of overall SEC success, UT is still no. 2 behind bammer.  Granted, 3 n 4 aren't that far behind, but FWIW, we are the second most successful program in the SEC behind yours.

[BGHarper]

That you should have such an inordinate amount of pride in football...it don't mean squat at the end of the day.

But if I wanted to nitpick something specific, UT has more SEC titles, a better SEC win percentage, more wins, and a better overall win percentage than Auburn. It's true Auburn holds a small advantage in the head to head, but we don't give up anything to them and I think in terms of overall SEC success, UT is still no. 2 behind bammer.  Granted, 3 n 4 aren't that far behind, but FWIW, we are the second most successful program in the SEC behind yours.

OK...

 I have no "pride" in Auburn's performance, and I know they have none in Bama's. That was a response to the supposition that the wealth of a state benefits a college football team, while contrasting the states of Tennessee and Alabama. I continued on with his example as my own state seems to disprove that theory, and that's what I pointed out. While it may help, it's not essential. That's about as unemotional, matter-of-fact and to the point as I could get. Contrary to what you may believe, I wasn't waiving Crimson and White and Blue and Orange shakers while posting it.

I didn't speak negatively of UT, all I did was mentioned the overall record between those three teams since it was central to my response. Other than your Auburn specifics, which you admittedly characterized as nitpicking, what exactly do you disagree with?





BG

[BanditVol]

I didn't speak negatively of UT, all I did was mentioned the overall record between those three teams since it was central to my response. Other than your Auburn specifics, which you admittedly characterized as nitpicking, what exactly do you disagree with?

Nothing.  Just pointing out that your state is way too obsessed with football. 

[RON]

most wanting to see? Get competitive in recruiting again and coach the players up....we're getting players and there was huge improvement IMO from last year to this. Just how depleted our roster was when Butch took over due to Dooley's complete incompetence simply CANNOT be overly emphasized....you just don't snap back after 18 months from the kind of set back Dooley dealt us and expect to compete with the top tier of the SEC. Butch has the ship turning and we'll get there everyone just has to be realistic about the time and effort it will take.  

Best post in the thread.

[BanditVol]

Best post in the thread.

Ditto