Interesting free article on Volquest

[10EC]

I did not know that Fulmer interviewed DeBord and hired Clawson instead.

Talk about a big 'ole... what if...

[Creek Walker]

Yeah. Then Fulmer could've kept DeBord under his  thumb and DeBord would've eventually been the scapegoat.

[BanditVol]

Yeah. Then Fulmer could've kept DeBord under his  thumb and DeBord would've eventually been the scapegoat.

Or such is the completely undocumented rumor.

Cut sure wasn't under Fulmer's thumb.  Sanders also (IMO) suxed as the OC of UK, and Clawson simply didn't have time to do a complete reboot of the team with Crompton as his QB.

I think what is much more likely is just that (a) Sanders suxed, and (b) Fulmer was an idjut to try and change horses in mid-stream with Clawson.  IMO, he should have found a proven pro-style OC.

I simply laugh at anyone who thinks Sanders suxed because Fulmer "had him under his thumb".  I guess that means that Fulmer was constantly holding Randy's arms behind his back so that the signal from the sideline was almost always late.  No doubt he also instructed the OL to constantly jump offsides and the QB to always snap the ball really late.  Finally, he no doubt secretly also told the entire offense to look sloppy and disorganized for the duration of the game.

Yes, clearly Fulmer was the mastermind deliberately undermining Randy Sanders so that he could eventually get fired and lose his job! 

The things I saw in our offense from 1999-2005 were not primarily issues with play-calling, although that was very stale.  What I saw was an offense that struggled to get the snap off in time, was constantly jumping offsides, and generally looked sloppy and undisciplined.

All those are directly on the OC.   Maybe Fulmer did interfere with Sander's play-calling...but the team was not prepared to execute regardless of what plays were called.  I think what happened instead is Sanders tried to excuse his lousy performance by blaming  Fulmer but I know what I saw.   

[HerbTarlekVol]

Or such is the completely undocumented rumor.

Cut sure wasn't under Fulmer's thumb.  Sanders also (IMO) suxed as the OC of UK, and Clawson simply didn't have time to do a complete reboot of the team with Crompton as his QB.

I think what is much more likely is just that (a) Sanders suxed, and (b) Fulmer was an idjut to try and change horses in mid-stream with Clawson.  IMO, he should have found a proven pro-style OC.

I simply laugh at anyone who thinks Sanders suxed because Fulmer "had him under his thumb".  I guess that means that Fulmer was constantly holding Randy's arms behind his back so that the signal from the sideline was almost always late.  No doubt he also instructed the OL to constantly jump offsides and the QB to always snap the ball really late.  Finally, he no doubt secretly also told the entire offense to look sloppy and disorganized for the duration of the game.

Yes, clearly Fulmer was the mastermind deliberately undermining Randy Sanders so that he could eventually get fired and lose his job! 

The things I saw in our offense from 1999-2005 were not primarily issues with play-calling, although that was very stale.  What I saw was an offense that struggled to get the snap off in time, was constantly jumping offsides, and generally looked sloppy and undisciplined.

All those are directly on the OC.   Maybe Fulmer did interfere with Sander's play-calling...but the team was not prepared to execute regardless of what plays were called.  I think what happened instead is Sanders tried to excuse his lousy performance by blaming  Fulmer but I know what I saw.   

If you don't believe that Fulmer didn't allow Clawson to implement his offense, then how do you explain that during EVERY other year that Clawson was either an OC or a head coach serving as his own OC that his offenses were very productive? The only year a "Clawson" offense struggled was his year at UT.

Just a coincidence?  I don't think so. 

[volsboy]

No matter what the real story was, it comes down to the head coach being in charge. Therefore, I blame Fulmer. If Clawson or Sanders were screwing up it the HC 's job to identify and fix it. Fulmer didn't do that. He was rightly fired.

[Creek Walker]

Clawson's track record speaks for itself.

As for Sanders, didn't he call plays in a national championship game that we won? And didn't he do pretty good from 1999-2004? Sanders wasn't the world's greatest OC, but he wasn't nearly as terrible as he's made out to be. He was the '05 scapegoat.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Clawson's track record speaks for itself.

As for Sanders, didn't he call plays in a national championship game that we won? And didn't he do pretty good from 1999-2004? Sanders wasn't the world's greatest OC, but he wasn't nearly as terrible as he's made out to be. He was the '05 scapegoat.

Agree on all of your points. 

[Black Diamond Vol]

As I recall, DeBord was likely going to bring some bigtime QB recruit (Mallet?) with him.  So the Crompton era probably wouldn't have happened, either.  Fulmer almost certainly would've kept his job (for the time being).

[BanditVol]

Clawson's track record speaks for itself.

As for Sanders, didn't he call plays in a national championship game that we won? And didn't he do pretty good from 1999-2004? Sanders wasn't the world's greatest OC, but he wasn't nearly as terrible as he's made out to be. He was the '05 scapegoat.

This has been endlessly hashed over.  Sanders called the plays for a team Cutcliffe constructed.  Play calling was never Sanders issue anyway, other than getting stale.  It was the execution and discipline of the offense.

And no, things were not that great from 99-2004.  The offense steadily declined.

Average Points Scored

1998   33
1999   31
2000   32
2001   31
2002   23
2003   28
2004   29
2005   19
2006   28

The bolded years are Cut years.  Notice the decline in 1999 even though Cut had to break in a new QB in 1998.  Notice the instant improvement in 2006.

Regardless, I'm not really debating the relative worth of Sanders as an OC.  Heck, he was better than some of the Dooley years or 2008 at least.  

What I am mostly attacking is the ridiculous idea that "Fulmer held Sanders back".  Sounds like Randy crying in his beer or making excuses to me.  And there is not...excuse me...ONE fizzleING SHRED OF PROOF that this was so, other than fans talking on a message board.

No doubt some of those same folks were shocked that Gruden is not our HC.  

[BanditVol]

If you don't believe that Fulmer didn't allow Clawson to implement his offense, then how do you explain that during EVERY other year that Clawson was either an OC or a head coach serving as his own OC that his offenses were very productive? The only year a "Clawson" offense struggled was his year at UT.

Just a coincidence?  I don't think so. 

So you are saying you can take an offense constructed to be pro style, in the SEC, plug in a new guy and just suddenly start running the spread?  And remember, Crompton is your QB.  Even though he played better in 2009, he wasn't exactly a rocket scientist.  Not the guy you want while making radical changes to your offense (particularly since Clawson was his third OC). 

I think what is far more credible is simply that it was a terrible idea to try and implement the spread with a bunch of players not recruited for it.  Fulmer in his time was a good coach, and so was Tuberville down at Auburn, who should have won an NC in 2004.

They both had the same stupid idea to go to the spread in 2008 and both paid for it with their jobs.  What a banner year for bammer that was. 

Does that mean Tuberville was "holding back" his guy also? 

[Stogie Vol]

[BanditVol]

No matter what the real story was, it comes down to the head coach being in charge. Therefore, I blame Fulmer. If Clawson or Sanders were screwing up it the HC 's job to identify and fix it. Fulmer didn't do that. He was rightly fired.

I don't have any issues with anyone saying Fulmer is ultimately responsible. I have often said the same myself.  My issue is with the idea that Sanders was "held back" by Fulmer.  Sanders may well have wanted to try some innovations in our stale offense, but no amount of innovation is going to help when you get called for delay of game 2-3 times a game, often jump offsides, snap the ball at the last possible second 7-8 times a game and then look unready to play, fail to execute, etc.

Again, the product that Sanders put on the field was simply shabby and sloppy IMHO.  That is ultimately the responsibility of the HC, but that does not happen because the HC is "holding back" the OC from calling certain plays.  In that case the OC could have been Bill Walsh resurrected from the dead, calling plays as a zombie and it still would not matter because the execution would suck.  

[volsboy]

I always wonder why Cut wasn't ever offered the HC job at UT, or was he? With what he has done at Duke I'm thinking he would have been very successful at Tennessee. He would be able to recruit much better prospects than at Duke.

[HerbTarlekVol]

So you are saying you can take an offense constructed to be pro style, in the SEC, plug in a new guy and just suddenly start running the spread?  And remember, Crompton is your QB.  Even though he played better in 2009, he wasn't exactly a rocket scientist.  Not the guy you want while making radical changes to your offense (particularly since Clawson was his third OC). 

I think what is far more credible is simply that it was a terrible idea to try and implement the spread with a bunch of players not recruited for it.  Fulmer in his time was a good coach, and so was Tuberville down at Auburn, who should have won an NC in 2004.

They both had the same stupid idea to go to the spread in 2008 and both paid for it with their jobs.  What a banner year for bammer that was. 

Does that mean Tuberville was "holding back" his guy also? 

Spread?  Clawson wasn't running a spread offense at UT. 

And even if he were, was Fulmer recruiting players not capable of picking up an offense in a full off season? 

Don't buy it, Bandit.  It's football.  It's not rocket surgery. 

[BanditVol]

Spread?  Clawson wasn't running a spread offense at UT. 

And even if he were, was Fulmer recruiting players not capable of picking up an offense in a full off season? 

Don't buy it, Bandit.  It's football.  It's not rocket surgery. 

Dude Clawson ran the spread.  I read like 500 articles on his time at Richmond.  Okay five.   

[BanditVol]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/11/fresh-take-wake-forest-names-true-freshman-as-starting-qb/

Wolford was given the nod in the quarterback competition, because he’s a better fit in Clawson’s spread offense than sophomore Tyler Cameron and junior Kevin Sousa.


http://www.si.com/college-football/2013/10/23/dave-clawson-bowling-green

Bowling Green reached a bowl in Clawson's first season, as he inherited 22 seniors from former coach Gregg Brandon, Urban Meyer's old offensive coordinator at the school. Clawson kept the principles of Brandon's spread offense and led the Falcons to a 7-6 record.

http://oldgoldandblack.com/?p=40960

Clawson wants to run a spread offense and the best fit for that offense is Wolford.  In the Aug. 10 scrimmage, Wolford also had a 12-yard touchdown run. He has natural running ability and has great quickness for the position.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/61200-dave-clawson-tony-franklin-at-crossroads-in-tennessee-auburn-matchup

Clawson was outside the Tennessee Family, where the same "vanilla" scheme had been run for the better part of the last three decades. Clawson promised to get the ball to the playmakers. And the words that've spread through the SEC like honey on our lips—the spread offense—began to be whispered in Knoxville.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1338083-is-tennessee-better-off-four-years-later-after-firing-phil-fulmer

After Offensive Coordinator David Cutcliffe left to take the Duke head coaching job in 2007, Fulmer finally caved to pressure and went out and hired a spread offense coordinator, Dave Clawson from Richmond.

[BanditVol]

Spread?  Clawson wasn't running a spread offense at UT. 

And even if he were, was Fulmer recruiting players not capable of picking up an offense in a full off season? 

Don't buy it, Bandit.  It's football.  It's not rocket surgery. 

You are correct sir.  It's not rocket surgery.  It took me five minutes to fine dozens of articles stating that Clawson is a spread guy.   


Bottom line....Clawson is definitely a spread coach, and hiring him was UT moving to a spread offense.  Auburn did the same stupid shizzle and both (very accomplished) coaches paid with their jobs.

I would love to hear why you think the Vols were NOT going to a spread offense. I can assure you there is an article out there somewhere quoting Fulmer talking about moving to the spread. 

So again, my point is that it was a dumb idea.  I think we can both agree on that.

[BanditVol]

Okay one bonus track from 2008

http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2008/8/5/587003/the-clawfense-complicated


ints of what the Clawfense will look like are beginning to emerge. As I guessed as an EDSBS Visiting Lecturer, it is apparently a spready-type, West Coast-ish (emphasis on the "-ish") thing.

[HerbTarlekVol]

You are correct sir.  It's not rocket surgery.  It took me five minutes to fine dozens of articles stating that Clawson is a spread guy.  


Bottom line....Clawson is definitely a spread coach, and hiring him was UT moving to a spread offense.  Auburn did the same stupid shizzle and both (very accomplished) coaches paid with their jobs.

I would love to hear why you think the Vols were NOT going to a spread offense. I can assure you there is an article out there somewhere quoting Fulmer talking about moving to the spread.  

So again, my point is that it was a dumb idea.  I think we can both agree on that.

Bandit - admit it - reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

Yes.  Clawson ran a spread at Richmond.  

Did you notice the words "at UT" in my statement?

You could have saved yourself a lot of time and effort if you had.  

UT didn't run Clawson's offense.  It was Fulmer's offense, and it wasn't a spread.  

[BanditVol]

Bandit - admit it - reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

Yes.  Clawson ran a spread at Richmond.  

Did you notice the words "at UT" in my statement?

You could have saved yourself a lot of time and effort if you had.  

UT didn't run Clawson's offense.  It was Fulmer's offense, and it wasn't a spread.  

It wasn't a lot of time and effort, thus the crack about "not rocket surgery".

There are quotes above that it was to be a hybrid between the old offense and the 'Clawfense'.  Which suggests Fulmer wanted to ease into a spread type offense.  Why hire Clawson if not?

It was a stupid idea.  Auburn tried something similar and also failed. 

Again, I think we can agree on that.

Where I strongly disagree is that Clawson was running the old offense.  There are articles above that flatly contradict that.  I know how stubborn you are though, so I don't really expect you to admit that even when the facts are staring you right in the face, but if by some miracle you want to, go ahead.   

One question though...why do you hate Fulmer so much?  My guess is you have something personal against him.  He probably snubbed or insulted you at some point, or perhaps screwed your radio station in a business deal.  Because you are not objective about it at all.

[HerbTarlekVol]

It wasn't a lot of time and effort, thus the crack about "not rocket surgery".

There are quotes above that it was to be a hybrid between the old offense and the 'Clawfense'.  Which suggests Fulmer wanted to ease into a spread type offense.  Why hire Clawson if not?

It was a stupid idea.  Auburn tried something similar and also failed.  

Again, I think we can agree on that.

Where I strongly disagree is that Clawson was running the old offense.  There are articles above that flatly contradict that.  I know how stubborn you are though, so I don't really expect you to admit that even when the facts are staring you right in the face, but if by some miracle you want to, go ahead.  

One question though...why do you hate Fulmer so much?  My guess is you have something personal against him.  He probably snubbed or insulted you at some point, or perhaps screwed your radio station in a business deal.  Because you are not objective about it at all.

I am perfectly aware of what Clawson did a Richmond, and what he did after he left UT serving as his own OC. 

Go back and dig up some game film from that year, Bandit.  It wasn't a spread based offense.  It just wasn't.  You can call me hard headed if you want, but I know the difference in a spread offense and a traditional offense being run out of the shotgun formation, which is pretty much what we saw that year.  

Why do I hate Fulmer?  I don't hate him.  I don't hate anybody, except maybe for Kliempsein fans.  Fulmer was as good a coach as there was in college football during his first 10 years or so as UT's head coach, but he was a much different head football coach during the last 4 of 5 years of his tenure at UT.  He just didn't have the same philosophy either as a recruiter or as a manager of his coaches and team and he certainly didn't handle adversity and dealing with media and fans very well.  He could never seem to take responsibility and ownership when things didn't go well.  He always blamed it on something beyond his control. Perfect storm remind you of anything? And it didn't take a rocket surgeon to see that.  

And i'm not sure what offended you so about the "rocket surgeon" term.  If you are offended by humor, then that's something I can't do much about.  

[BanditVol]

And i'm not sure what offended you so about the "rocket surgeon" term.  If you are offended by humor, then that's something I can't do much about.  

Not sure how you read me being offended by that. I am not.  I am just agreeing with you that it's not a deep intellectual thing we are talking about here. 

And again, there are quotes above and numerous articles .... some of which are posted above .... that state that what we had was a "hybrid" offense between the spread and the traditional Vol offense under Fulmer.  The idea was to transition gradually to the spread.

So we really are not disagreeing at all.  I agree that it wasn't a pure spread, but ....

a. It was an offense that was at least supposed to incorporate elements of the spread
b. It was a horrible idea.  Fulmer would have been better off sticking with a pro set guy...possibly DeBord

Your emphasis seems to be on whether Clawson was "fall guy no. 2" or not.  I am not claiming he should be.  Fulmer is the one that made the stupid decision, for which, by the way, he did pay the price. 

My point, which is in line with the original post on this thread, is that had Fulmer just stayed with what he knew he may well have lasted a few more years.  Clawson is a good coach, he was just a bad fit at UT in 2008 and should never have been hired.

And for the third time, Fulmer was not alone in his folly.  Tubberville tried almost the exact thing at Auburn with Franklin and it also cost him his job.

You don't just go to the spread in one year using players not recruited for that system.  Even Urban Meyer didn't do that at Florida, remember?  His first two years with Leak were a hybrid also.  In Urban's case, since he was the HC and knew the spread from having literally been one of the guys that invented it, it went much more smoothly.  A coach like Fulmer or Tuberville trying to change horses in midstream was just D-U-M-B.  IMNSHO.