Retrospect on the BasketVols

[HerbTarlekVol]

So calling for the hiring of another coach is not implying that the current coach should be fired?  Do you ever read your posts and say "what does this look like and should I edit it first?".  Just curious.

Nothing I said needed editing. It was factually accurate, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Do you ever read a reply to one of your posts and actually try to answer it with reason and rational thought?  I gave you specific examples of why you are full of shizzle when you point the racist finger at those of us who weren't particularly happy with Cuonzo Martin as a basketball coach.  You just seemed to gloss over them because the answers don't fit your agenda.

And if you ever read anything I posted on Pearl you would know that I was never for bringing him back under any circumstances.  He screwed the pooch with his own actions, and not he, but Tennessee basketball and UT fans bore the brunt of his actions.  My opinion is that those who wanted him back were misguided at best and were trying to make a deal with the devil by wanting him back.  

And you can take your racist accusations and shove them up your ass.  For you to believe that you are so high and mighty that you are above seeing Martin's color, but that any of us who weren't supportive of his continuing to be UT's coach must be racist is arrogant and presumptive.  You don't know me, and you don't know others well enough to make that judgment.  

[Be-the-Vol]

The problem I have with the race issue in this context is concluding that 15-20 percent of UT fans are racists using only personal experience with a very small sampling of UT fans.  This conclusion is not logical, and is only based on a gut feeling.  For example, we've been tailgating for football games for well over 20 years and I've never heard any UT fans make racists statements.  That covers thousands of different people throughout the years.  Now, can I then logically conclude that no UT fans are racists - no.  One can not observe the attributes of a non-statistical sample of UT fans and project those results to the entire universe of UT fans. I also believe that each generation is getting less and less racist (even if there are those of all shades that wish that was not the case).  

And saying that one lives in the South as a way of supporting one's case is a bit outdated. I've live in the south for 48 years and have rarely seen racists acts or heard racist comments.  Have I seen and/or heard such things, yes, but rarely.  I've seen and heard many worse things in the North than I've seen and heard in the South (and that's all during my lifetime, not recently).  Just my $.02.

[RON]

I am tired of hearing about race. All UT fans Iknow care about winning. Not color.

[Tnphil]

I am tired of hearing about race. All UT fans Iknow care about winning. Not color.

^ This......I could care less if we had a illegal Mexican coaching us. If he wins, I'm backing him 100%.

[BanditVol]

The problem I have with the race issue in this context is concluding that 15-20 percent of UT fans are racists using only personal experience with a very small sampling of UT fans.  

Very well thought out post TBV, and also quite logical.  It's fair to critizise my assessment as anectdotal.  So disagree with the "15 to 20%" if you must, but in all the responses above, I fail to see one instance of anyone saying that we have NO racists.

As I read message boards like Volnation, where there is a large volume of traffic, it's pretty easy to read between the lines and identfiy racists.

[BanditVol]

Nothing I said needed editing. It was factually accurate, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Do you ever read a reply to one of your posts and actually try to answer it with reason and rational thought?  I gave you specific examples of why you are full of shizzle when you point the racist finger at those of us who weren't particularly happy with Cuonzo Martin as a basketball coach.  You just seemed to gloss over them because the answers don't fit your agenda.

.

Where anywher in all of this did I personally accuse you or anyone on this particular site of racism?  If you can find such a statement, please let me know. 


One does wonder why you would think that though. 

[BanditVol]

Okay.We didn't like Martin because he's black. What's your point? The fact that we are not impressed with his coaching skills has no bearing on you. He was not let go or fired. He left on his own accord. That means we are racists. He was offered a good deal but declined it. Let it go.

Again, never accused anyone on here of that. 

[BanditVol]

Time and time again people have pointed out that last's years team should not have been the last team in the field with the talent we had. The only thing you have said is that last year wasn't as bad as it seemed! Really? Based on what? Your thoughts? If last year wasn't as bad as it seemed, why was ut the last team in the field with that amount of talent and the league as down as it was?  If last year wasn't as bad as it seemed, why did the committee make us play in a play in game? You refuse to acknowledge any of that.

Actually only Pirate pointed it out.  It's a good point, and one I was going to agree with when I got around to it.

It's very fair to say that we should not have been the last team in.  Neverhtheless, most everyone had given up on the team at midseason.  But then they did make it in and had a great run.  Which goes to show...don't ever give up on a team until it's actually over.

I defintely have a gripe that fans today are too impatient and this was my position last year with Martin and it has not changed.

But  you mention the committee...my opinion is that the SEC has been underrepresented in the NCAA for years and that last year was just a part of it.

My opinion is  that we should not have been relegated to a play-in and also that we should have snuck in the previous year.  Unfortunately my opinion doesn't count much with the committe.

Another thing I find objectionable is that during the season, people were griping that "it's all about wins" and that Martin was not providing them. Those of us who WERE patient were then rewarded with a nice late season run in which (drum roll)...we won.

But the same people who said "all I care about is winning" just dismissed it as a fluke. Hypocritical and inconsistent, but what I increasingly expect from fans that seem to lack the intestinal fortitude or mental toughness to ride out some tough patches.   

[Creek Walker]

My opinion is  that we should not have been relegated to a play-in and also that we should have snuck in the previous year.  Unfortunately my opinion doesn't count much with the committee.

If UT hadn't been in the play-in game last year the run to the Sweet 16 would have never happened. It was the most favorable draw in the entire field.

If Tennessee should've been in the tourney in 2013, Martin's team could have helped make its case by NOT losing in the first round of the NIT to Mercer at home.

But the same people who said "all I care about is winning" just dismissed it as a fluke. Hypocritical and inconsistent, but what I increasingly expect from fans that seem to lack the intestinal fortitude or mental toughness to ride out some tough patches.   

You know, Bandit, if you don't like the UT fan base, there's a red team just down the road that you might find more to your liking. 

[BanditVol]

If UT hadn't been in the play-in game last year the run to the Sweet 16 would have never happened. It was the most favorable draw in the entire field.

Exactly what I am speaking of.  If "all that matters is wins", then how and why UT got in the tourney is inconsequential.  And for the record, we did beat the no. 6 seed in the first round, which is hardly luck IYAM.

You know, Bandit, if you don't like the UT fan base, there's a red team just down the road that you might find more to your liking. 

My comment was actually more about sports fans in general.  These days everyone wants instant success and do not have patience for what it sometimes takes to build a program.  Such impatience has IMO contributed to the lack of success at places like Michigan, Tennesee and Nebraska.  I think that on the contrary FSU did show patience and it paid off.

Let me also say that  while I was including Vol fans in the comment, it was actually only the most impatient portion of our fanbase, not all of them.

[JeffCountyVolFan]

If UT hadn't been in the play-in game last year the run to the Sweet 16 would have never happened.

Not a fan of Martin as a coach and really never was. DT is far and above better, from what we've seen thus far.

That said, there is no way your statement above holds water. No way to prove or disprove what might have happened if ........

[Creek Walker]

Not a fan of Martin as a coach and really never was. DT is far and above better, from what we've seen thus far.

That said, there is no way your statement above holds water. No way to prove or disprove what might have happened if ........

I think if you'll go back and look at every thread on every UT message board, including this one, you'll find most Vols fans were excited about the draw. Many fans (myself included) speculated before the tournament even began that UT could very well win a couple of games with that bracket, and that was a UT team that had not played particularly down the stretch (won their last four games but lost four of six before that).

UMass was ridiculously over-seeded as a 6-seed (they were 8-7 after the month of January, heading into the tourney, and their wins had been squeakers against teams like Duquesne and Rhode Island). And Mercer did UT a huge favor by beating Duke. The other three 6-seeds (Ohio State, UNC and Baylor) were all better than UMass. And does that UT team beat Creighton, Iowa State or Syracuse? I doubt it. Just about every UT fan agreed before that tournament started that it was a very favorable draw for UT. It isn't revisionist history to look back now and say that it was just that.

[JeffCountyVolFan]

I think if you'll go back and look at every thread on every UT message board, including this one, you'll find most Vols fans were excited about the draw. Many fans (myself included) speculated before the tournament even began that UT could very well win a couple of games with that bracket, and that was a UT team that had not played particularly down the stretch (won their last four games but lost four of six before that).

UMass was ridiculously over-seeded as a 6-seed (they were 8-7 after the month of January, heading into the tourney, and their wins had been squeakers against teams like Duquesne and Rhode Island). And Mercer did UT a huge favor by beating Duke. The other three 6-seeds (Ohio State, UNC and Baylor) were all better than UMass. And does that UT team beat Creighton, Iowa State or Syracuse? I doubt it. Just about every UT fan agreed before that tournament started that it was a very favorable draw for UT. It isn't revisionist history to look back now and say that it was just that.

I am not disputing that UT may have had a favorable draw.

I simply propose that, when players 'lace em up', anything can happen. Otherwise they'd simply seed the tourney, eliminate all the higher seeds down to the #1 seeds, and play only the final four.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Where anywher in all of this did I personally accuse you or anyone on this particular site of racism?  If you can find such a statement, please let me know. 


One does wonder why you would think that though. 

You've go to be kidding me, Bandit.  Here are your words from earlier in this thread:

And CO, and everyone else, while I am at it, let me just go ahead and state openly that what just occurred at OU still exists everywhere.

That this was NOT a factor in the dislike of Cuonzo is HIGHLY UNLIKELY for a certain segment of our fan base.

My personal guesstimate (admittedly anecdotal) based on 33 years of living in the South is that it's roughly 15 to 20%.  FWIW. 

While you didn't name any particular person, you inferred that 15% to 20% of UT fans had a racial bias against Martin. 

So, out of the 20 or so "regular" UT fans on this forum, which 3-4 do you believe disliked Martin because of his skin color? 

Be specific.  If you are going to throw out those accusations at least have the balls to back up them up with specifics. 

[volsboy]

We are all Vols fans and I personally believe that most of us would back Cuonzo if his performance warranted it. He about coached that team into missing the tournament. Weren't they the last one in? That team had the talent to be a lot higher ranked than that. But we have who we have now. Let's just back him. When he gets the talent he wants, I think he will coach the hell out of it. Give Tyndall a chance. Cuonzo is gone. We will be better off. I hope..lol.

[BanditVol]

You've go to be kidding me, Bandit.  Here are your words from earlier in this thread:

And CO, and everyone else, while I am at it, let me just go ahead and state openly that what just occurred at OU still exists everywhere.

That this was NOT a factor in the dislike of Cuonzo is HIGHLY UNLIKELY for a certain segment of our fan base.

My personal guesstimate (admittedly anecdotal) based on 33 years of living in the South is that it's roughly 15 to 20%.  FWIW.  

While you didn't name any particular person, you inferred that 15% to 20% of UT fans had a racial bias against Martin.  

So, out of the 20 or so "regular" UT fans on this forum, which 3-4 do you believe disliked Martin because of his skin color?  

Be specific.  If you are going to throw out those accusations at least have the balls to back up them up with specifics.  

So are you self-identifying yourself as being in the 15 to 20%?

Hahaha, no need to answer.  Relax, I am just joking.  

[HerbTarlekVol]

So are you self-identifying yourself as being in the 15 to 20%?

Hahaha, no need to answer.  Relax, I am just joking.  

No, I am identifying you as one who throws out shizzle, but won't back it up with rational and reasonable thoughts, much less some facts to go with it. 

[BanditVol]

No, I am identifying you as one who throws out shizzle, but won't back it up with rational and reasonable thoughts, much less some facts to go with it. 

[yawn]

[HerbTarlekVol]

[yawn]

The reaction of somebody who can't back what he says.

[BanditVol]

The reaction of somebody who can't back what he says.

Oh fizzle you.

I'm just tired of this.

I can totally back what I say.

Read above. Several times I state that there definitely are SOME racists in our fanbase.

I also admitted that the 15-20 % percentages I quote are anecdotal and totally pulled out of my arse.


So let me ask, are there any racists AT ALL in our fanbase?  Limit yourself to yes or no please.  Otherwise don't bother answering. 

[PirateVOL]

I can totally back what I say.

Except when you don't

You got called and this is how you react ...
I would kindly suggest that you look in the mirror ....

[BanditVol]

Except when you don't

You got called and this is how you react ...
I would kindly suggest that you look in the mirror ....

Well you can answer the question.  I know there are racists in our fanbase because I personally know at least two.

What about you Pirate?  Are you prepared to say that there are NONE?

Are any of you?

If that's not backing up what I say, then what is?

Explain please.

[Creek Walker]

But Bandit, surely you can see why your post got a reaction. You know a couple of racist Tennessee fans so you declared that racism was a driving factor in this fan base's dissatisfaction with Cuonzo. It was an inflammatory accusation that was bound to draw an inflammatory response.

[PirateVOL]

Well you can answer the question.  I know there are racists in our fanbase because I personally know at least two.

What about you Pirate?  Are you prepared to say that there are NONE?

Are any of you?

If that's not backing up what I say, then what is?

Explain please.

I am NOT the one who declared our fans RACIST!  You did - Defend you own ASS!
I'm just calling you what you appear to be.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Oh fizzle you.

I'm just tired of this.

I can totally back what I say.

Read above. Several times I state that there definitely are SOME racists in our fanbase.

I also admitted that the 15-20 % percentages I quote are anecdotal and totally pulled out of my arse.


So let me ask, are there any racists AT ALL in our fanbase?  Limit yourself to yes or no please.  Otherwise don't bother answering. 

I'm laughing at you now, Bandit.

You opened the racism door by accusing a number, that when called on it you admit that you pulled out of your ass, of being much of the problem for Cuonzo leaving. 

When reminded that the man that the petition "backed" was a Jewish man you conveniently began evading and avoiding identifying those so called racist. 

So, fizzle you back, Bandit.  You are a hypocrite.  You want an answer to your question, but you are running from questions asked of you.