Joc Bruce

[murfvol]

All programs have guys enter and leave. No biggie. But with Bruce's exit, Butch's incessant discussion of alpha males, and interesting personnel decisions, I have to wonder if he plays favorites.Plenty of people are super cool to some people, and jerks to others, or an odd combination. 

It's hard to know unless you're around someone a lot, but there seem to be tell-tale signs. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[PirateVOL]

Sometimes things just don't work out.  Is Butch an alpha dog?  Absolutely, or he wouldn't be a good coach IMO.  I wouldn't read too much into it.

I have a guy that works for me.  Hired him awhile back but shortly thereafter realized that while he was a good engineer he didn't fit the team very well, at all.  Best news I received this week is that he has a contingency offer to go elsewhere within the company.  While he hinted at a possible counter from our end that will not happen (for a variety of reasons).  If the offer comes through I'll wish him well.

[Tnphil]

Has to be more to the story on this....He wanted to be a Vol and even offered to be a blueshirt to open up more room. Has to be more.

[ReVOLver]

He got processed to open up room for the kid that didn't get into Wisconsin.

This is the same way Saban does it. Y'all worrywarts wanna win or not?

[Creek Walker]

He got processed to open up room for the kid that didn't get into Wisconsin.

This is the same way Saban does it. Y'all worrywarts wanna win or not?

I'll jump in with both feet. If that's an accurate reflection of what happened, it's disgusting. I realize it's the new way in college football, but I hate the win-at-all-costs mentality that has slowly surfaced over the last couple of decades. I don't like it, regardless of whether it's Saban doing it or Butch doing it. I suppose it is what it is, but things like this and high ticket prices will ultimately drive me away from college football, I figure. (I fully realize college football isn't going to miss me when I'm gone, but I can still gripe about it.  )

[HerbTarlekVol]

He got processed to open up room for the kid that didn't get into Wisconsin.

This is the same way Saban does it. Y'all worrywarts wanna win or not?

Have to disagree with you, my friend.

Joc was going to play at UT and play early.  He was going to get a legit shot to be a special teams guy from day one.  And that's first party info, not third or fourth party rumor.

Joc screwed up.  He blew a golden opportunity and now either has to prove he has what it takes to make it, or prove his critics correct. 

Looks like he may well end up at Arkansas State at this point.  He is a qualifier and doesn't have to go the juco route unless he wants to try to get back to the power 5 level. 

[73Volgrad]

According to the KNS article Saturday, Joc tweeted he got suspended for being late to class and not for grades. IMO it must not have been for a single or isolated incident. So he decided to go elsewhere after talking to coaches.  Having the discipline to be on time to class (even one to dislike or love) is very important to this staff. Unless Joc tells more, we will never know the true reason. But he is now gone, so it is time to close that chapter and move on. Speculation aside, it was obviously not meet to be so why dwell on things no one has information on. It just did not work out.

[ReVOLver]

Have to disagree with you, my friend.

Joc was going to play at UT and play early.  He was going to get a legit shot to be a special teams guy from day one.  And that's first party info, not third or fourth party rumor.

Joc screwed up.  He blew a golden opportunity and now either has to prove he has what it takes to make it, or prove his critics correct. 

Looks like he may well end up at Arkansas State at this point.  He is a qualifier and doesn't have to go the juco route unless he wants to try to get back to the power 5 level. 

He was never going to be more than a special teamer. If he was going to be more than that, you wouldn't have typed the last 13 words you typed because a power 5 school would be all over him. First hand info that he was going to play on teams does not make my post inaccurate.

Butch took him too early and didn't want to rescind his offer because he was a local prospect... bad PR. If he was actually a good player, it wouldn't matter what he did, he wouldn't be off the team. Justin Martin told Butch that he'd better shut his fizzleing mouth this past week... still on the team because the guy can play.

[ReVOLver]

According to the KNS article Saturday, Joc tweeted he got suspended for being late to class and not for grades. IMO it must not have been for a single or isolated incident. So he decided to go elsewhere after talking to coaches.  Having the discipline to be on time to class (even one to dislike or love) is very important to this staff. Unless Joc tells more, we will never know the true reason. But he is now gone, so it is time to close that chapter and move on. Speculation aside, it was obviously not meet to be so why dwell on things no one has information on. It just did not work out.

Joc Bruce... late to class in his first term... gone.

Jalen Hurd... cited underage drinking during the season... still on the team.

Charles Mosely... DUI / weed... still on the team.

Pig Howard... weed, insolence, bad teammate for the whole first year Butch was at UT... still on the team.

The only players this staff have gotten rid of are ones who are a) academically ineligible b) Domestic issues and c) facing felony criminal charges. This is the way of bigtime college football.

[ReVOLver]

I'll jump in with both feet. If that's an accurate reflection of what happened, it's disgusting. I realize it's the new way in college football, but I hate the win-at-all-costs mentality that has slowly surfaced over the last couple of decades. I don't like it, regardless of whether it's Saban doing it or Butch doing it. I suppose it is what it is, but things like this and high ticket prices will ultimately drive me away from college football, I figure. (I fully realize college football isn't going to miss me when I'm gone, but I can still gripe about it.  )

Yeah the only thing I can say to this is maybe you should stick to fishing lol. The fans drive the win at all costs mentality because winning breeds ticket sales and merchandise sales. Money breeds higher coaches salaries and higher expectations. Coaches are under immense pressure to win to keep their jobs. Either Butch uses times like these to make tough, unfair decisions to get better players, or he ultimately gets fired based on the expectations of fans who want to win but at the same time somehow expect them to "do the right thing".

[HerbTarlekVol]

He was never going to be more than a special teamer. If he was going to be more than that, you wouldn't have typed the last 13 words you typed because a power 5 school would be all over him. First hand info that he was going to play on teams does not make my post inaccurate.

Butch took him too early and didn't want to rescind his offer because he was a local prospect... bad PR. If he was actually a good player, it wouldn't matter what he did, he wouldn't be off the team. Justin Martin told Butch that he'd better shut his fizzleing mouth this past week... still on the team because the guy can play.

All due respect, Jeff, I have been pretty danged close to this one for the last year and a half.  I was the play by play guy for South-Doyle last season and have been around Joc a lot - and had many conversations with him - during that time.  His coach, of course, was Clark Duncan, who coached my son at Powell and has been a good friend for about 15 years now.  

Never said that your post wasn't valid, but Joc was going to play this year - and especially being a special teams guy, but not limited to that.  Special teams was going to get him on the field first, but with the need at WR he likely would have gotten some time there, too.  

There is an assumption that he hasn't gotten "power 5" attention, which is just not accurate.  Clark got tons of "power 5" inquiries during the season, but Joc told them that he was done after UT offered and he verbaled and he wasn't interested.  UT was his Holy Grail, which is one of the reasons why I am so baffled by the recent happenings.  

Sometimes kids just screw up and end up having to go down a level or two.  We've all seen it happen.  I believe this to be one of those times.  

  

[HerbTarlekVol]

Joc Bruce... late to class in his first term... gone.

Obviously there is more to it than that, Jeff.  Butch isn't going to run a kid for something as simple as that. 

[ReVOLver]

All due respect, Jeff, I have been pretty danged close to this one for the last year and a half.  I was the play by play guy for South-Doyle last season and have been around Joc a lot - and had many conversations with him - during that time.  His coach, of course, was Clark Duncan, who coached my son at Powell and has been a good friend for about 15 years now.  

Never said that your post wasn't valid, but Joc was going to play this year - and especially being a special teams guy, but not limited to that.  Special teams was going to get him on the field first, but with the need at WR he likely would have gotten some time there, too.  

There is an assumption that he hasn't gotten "power 5" attention, which is just not accurate.  Clark got tons of "power 5" inquiries during the season, but Joc told them that he was done after UT offered and he verbaled and he wasn't interested.  UT was his Holy Grail, which is one of the reasons why I am so baffled by the recent happenings.  

Sometimes kids just screw up and end up having to go down a level or two.  We've all seen it happen.  I believe this to be one of those times.  

  

If he got tons of power 5 attention, why is he going to go to Arkansas State? The kid from Wisconsin that they are clearing space for has interest from every SEC school, the Pac 10, the Big 10, etc. That kid wasn't academically accepted to Wisconsin. Similar situation, no?

You can name all the connections you want, the fact that the schools showing interest are the Ak States, Memphis's, and NE Oklahoma A&M's of the world speaks volumes to his prospects as a D1 athlete. I'll continue to believe what I believe.

[ReVOLver]

Obviously there is more to it than that, Jeff.  Butch isn't going to run a kid for something as simple as that. 

Funny that everything else that happens in that locker room hits Twitter in 2 hours but there is literally nothing about anything else regarding Joc Bruce.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Similar situation, no?

No.  The two situations are absolutely nothing alike one another. 

[ReVOLver]

No.  The two situations are absolutely nothing alike one another. 

Based on the public information, they both look like minor academic problems to me. Except one is a high major running back and the other is a mid major slot receiver.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Funny that everything else that happens in that locker room hits Twitter in 2 hours but there is literally nothing about anything else regarding Joc Bruce.

Who said something happened in the locker room?  

[HerbTarlekVol]

Based on the public information, they both look like minor academic problems to me. Except one is a high major running back and the other is a mid major slot receiver.

And sometimes all information isn't "public" to be spread on social media. 

And we all know that Twitter and other social media is always accurate, don't we? 

[ReVOLver]

Who said something happened in the locker room?  

It was a euphemism... "behind close doors"... "in the room"... etc. Let's not split hairs or play semantics.

[HerbTarlekVol]

It was a euphemism... "behind close doors"... "in the room"... etc. Let's not split hairs or play semantics.

Not my intention.  The point is that in most situations there is a Paul Harvey involved, and this one is no different. 

Question: Why would Butch go ahead and bring Joc in during the summer if he didn't think he was going to be able to help the team?  Even as a blue shirt he has to count towards a scholly for next year, and now his leaving will affect the APR.  Why bring him in during summer instead of waiting until fall or encouraging a grayshirt if he thought he was going to be a "candidate" to be run off?

That just doesn't make sense. 

[ReVOLver]

And sometimes all information isn't "public" to be spread on social media. 

And we all know that Twitter and other social media is always accurate, don't we? 

You're a nice guy, Bill, but if you know something and don't want to post what you know, you shouldn't participate in these threads and drop hints.

It is virtually impossible for UT to keep things quiet, so eventually all information is spread on social media. Nobody is saying social media is always accurate. However it's extremely easy and very common sensical to see through what is true and what isn't when it comes to social media. I guarantee you if there was more to this than something really minor, it would be out there... maybe amidst a bunch of other BS, but the info would be out there. What's out there is that he was late for class and that only mid major schools and JUCOs are interested.

[ReVOLver]

Not my intention.  The point is that in most situations there is a Paul Harvey involved, and this one is no different. 

Question: Why would Butch go ahead and bring Joc in during the summer if he didn't think he was going to be able to help the team?  Even as a blue shirt he has to count towards a scholly for next year, and now his leaving will affect the APR.  Why bring him in during summer instead of waiting until fall or encouraging a grayshirt if he thought he was going to be a "candidate" to be run off?

That just doesn't make sense. 

Easy answer... because there wasn't a coveted running back prospect out there that he really thought he could get. APR isn't a concern because they are managing it on the whole.

[HerbTarlekVol]

You're a nice guy, Bill, but if you know something and don't want to post what you know, you shouldn't participate in these threads and drop hints.

It is virtually impossible for UT to keep things quiet, so eventually all information is spread on social media. Nobody is saying social media is always accurate. However it's extremely easy and very common sensical to see through what is true and what isn't when it comes to social media. I guarantee you if there was more to this than something really minor, it would be out there... maybe amidst a bunch of other BS, but the info would be out there. What's out there is that he was late for class and that only mid major schools and JUCOs are interested.

Again - using reason and common sense, which you have plenty of - why would Butch bring Joc in, and then get rid of him over such an alleged minor thing?  And especially when you consider that his high school coach is a prominent and influential long time high school coach and administrator AND has been one of Butch's biggest supporters during Butch's career thus far at UT? 

It just doesn't make sense that Butch would run Joc off over something as relatively insignificant and fixable as being late to class. 

[ReVOLver]

Again - using reason and common sense, which you have plenty of - why would Butch bring Joc in, and then get rid of him over such an alleged minor thing?  And especially when you consider that his high school coach is a prominent and influential long time high school coach and administrator AND has been one of Butch's biggest supporters during Butch's career thus far at UT? 

It just doesn't make sense that Butch would run Joc off over something as relatively insignificant and fixable as being late to class. 

I answered that already.

I have scratched my itch to argue for today. I'll be back for more soon. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I answered that already.

I have scratched my itch to argue for today. I'll be back for more soon. 

OK, if you say so, but I don't see an answer to my question anywhere.  With or without Joc there would have been an opportunity to bring the kid from Wisconsin in.  The Wisconsin reject has nothing to do with Joc's situation.