Joc Bruce

[Creek Walker]

Yeah the only thing I can say to this is maybe you should stick to fishing lol. The fans drive the win at all costs mentality because winning breeds ticket sales and merchandise sales. Money breeds higher coaches salaries and higher expectations. Coaches are under immense pressure to win to keep their jobs. Either Butch uses times like these to make tough, unfair decisions to get better players, or he ultimately gets fired based on the expectations of fans who want to win but at the same time somehow expect them to "do the right thing".

Where does it stop, though? College sports are generally being destroyed from the inside out -- very little at a time -- by money and winning percentages. And it isn't just issues like these. Saban might've advanced us down the slippery slope but he didn't start the ball rolling. Everyone in the world was outraged when the Sandusky scandal emerged at Penn State, but we all know that today's Penn State could very easily be tomorrow's Notre Dame or LSU. Florida fans feigned disgust when Winston slid at FSU, but they know that their school could just as easily wind up in those same shoes -- heck, it already had; it's just that Hernandez's charges were less serious than rape. When you boil right down to it, the driving factors behind the Sandusky and Winston cover-ups are the same as the factors behind "encouraging" a kid to leave after he committed to you and even agreed to blueshirt.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Where does it stop, though? College sports are generally being destroyed from the inside out -- very little at a time -- by money and winning percentages. And it isn't just issues like these. Saban might've advanced us down the slippery slope but he didn't start the ball rolling. Everyone in the world was outraged when the Sandusky scandal emerged at Penn State, but we all know that today's Penn State could very easily be tomorrow's Notre Dame or LSU. Florida fans feigned disgust when Winston slid at FSU, but they know that their school could just as easily wind up in those same shoes -- heck, it already had; it's just that Hernandez's charges were less serious than rape. When you boil right down to it, the driving factors behind the Sandusky and Winston cover-ups are the same as the factors behind "encouraging" a kid to leave after he committed to you and even agreed to blueshirt.

That's pretty much where I stand, too. 

Having been aware of how that entire blue shirting thing was presented by Butch, and Butch did ask Joc to blue shirt and help with the scholly numbers, if he did "run off" Joc over something simple and correctable like being late for class then it would make me wonder about some things with our coaching staff and our approach to offering and committing prospects.  But like I said, that's just not reasonable nor rational to believe is the case.  The fact that others have "survived" more serious issues leads one to believe that there is more to the story here than just being late for class.  Since it seems to be all about recruiting now, other schools would exploit the situation if that's all that there was to it.

Again, just doesn't pass the smell test. 

[murfvol]

I don't know Joc, but the fact he took a blue shirt was huge. If the coaching staff doesn't do everything they can for him (don't know they haven't) , they're lousy human beings.

That's what I care about. Treat him like you would a 4* legacy. I have no respect for those who play favorites. Again, I don't know what happened, but hopefully no 45 year-old adult made an 18 year-old kid's life difficult. Us old guys are supposed to serve.

[BanditVol]

It does seem odd that Butch would not keep a blue shirt, for whatever reason. 

What harm if it's not against the schollie cap.  Butch didn't need to run him off for numbers, which is what is implied above. 

Unless it's the 85 total limit.   

Regardless a South Doyle kid should be kept.   

[BanditVol]

Okay I brushed up on blue shirts...it means he was given a schollie against next year's allotment, so there was something at stake.

It wasn't for the kid from Wisconsin though, because he isn't going to UT.

It may have been in Butch's interest to do it to make more room for next year's class.

There are rumors out there about the "more to it", but who knows.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Okay I brushed up on blue shirts...it means he was given a schollie against next year's allotment, so there was something at stake.

It wasn't for the kid from Wisconsin though, because he isn't going to UT.

It may have been in Butch's interest to do it to make more room for next year's class.

There are rumors out there about the "more to it", but who knows.

Next year's class is the best ever in TN.  It would make sense to save as many schollies as possible for 2017.   I don't know if that is what happened in Bruce's case, but it would make sense.

[volsboy]

It is about getting the best players on the field. If you know this guy is never going to contribute, get rid of him. Make these spoiled high school players earn their scholarships. Not good enough, you are gone. We don't recruit guys for special teams. If you are not in the starting 22 then you might make special teams. If you are an iffy special teams player, you are gone.

[HerbTarlekVol]

It is about getting the best players on the field. If you know this guy is never going to contribute, get rid of him. Make these spoiled high school players earn their scholarships. Not good enough, you are gone. We don't recruit guys for special teams. If you are not in the starting 22 then you might make special teams. If you are an iffy special teams player, you are gone.

So, you are saying that if a player can't contribute other than on special teams as a true freshman, then you run him off? 

[TheRealOrange]

So, you are saying that if a player can't contribute other than on special teams as a true freshman, then you run him off? 

I read his post as employing a healthy dose of sarcasm, but perhaps I misread his intent. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I read his post as employing a healthy dose of sarcasm, but perhaps I misread his intent. 

I certainly hope you are correct on that one, TRO. 

[ReVOLver]

OK, if you say so, but I don't see an answer to my question anywhere.  With or without Joc there would have been an opportunity to bring the kid from Wisconsin in.  The Wisconsin reject has nothing to do with Joc's situation.

Maybe read a little closer? 😉

[HerbTarlekVol]

Maybe read a little closer? 😉

Nope, read it really closely.  Just didn't pass the smell test. 

In any event, the reason for the departure was more than just being late for a few classes, so it is irrelevant at this point. 

[volsboy]

So, you are saying that if a player can't contribute other than on special teams as a true freshman, then you run him off? 

I was being sarcastic. If you go to the trouble to give the guy a scholly and you know he is never going to be a starter or even contribute then you shouldn't pull the scholly. Only 22 starters. That means a lot of players will be on the bench. My problem is why offer a kid a scholly that you know is a borderline Div 1 college player. It doesn't make sense in this day and age of win, win, win.

[ReVOLver]

Nope, read it really closely.  Just didn't pass the smell test.  

In any event, the reason for the departure was more than just being late for a few classes, so it is irrelevant at this point.

Yeah it was about being late for a few classes AND him not being a high major player. Not sure why you're having trouble following that.

Looks like butch has gitshirted Kyle Oliver today too. Already making room for the 2016 class. I like it!

[ReVOLver]

Where does it stop, though? College sports are generally being destroyed from the inside out -- very little at a time -- by money and winning percentages. And it isn't just issues like these. Saban might've advanced us down the slippery slope but he didn't start the ball rolling. Everyone in the world was outraged when the Sandusky scandal emerged at Penn State, but we all know that today's Penn State could very easily be tomorrow's Notre Dame or LSU. Florida fans feigned disgust when Winston slid at FSU, but they know that their school could just as easily wind up in those same shoes -- heck, it already had; it's just that Hernandez's charges were less serious than rape. When you boil right down to it, the driving factors behind the Sandusky and Winston cover-ups are the same as the factors behind "encouraging" a kid to leave after he committed to you and even agreed to blueshirt.

Did you just compare the Sandusky cover up to a coach parting ways with a kid who can't play at the sec level?

I mean... Lol

I can't even jokingly argue with a person who draws that comparison

[Creek Walker]

Did you just compare the Sandusky cover up to a coach parting ways with a kid who can't play at the sec level?

I mean... Lol

I can't even jokingly argue with a person who draws that comparison

I know you're smart enough to have better reading comprehension than that. I said they're both symptoms of the same win-at-all-costs mentality. I mean, lung cancer and bad breath are both symptoms of smoking, but I doubt anyone would call that a comparison.

Laugh at that if you want, but your insulting tone is only because you can't debate the fact.

[ReVOLver]

I don't know Joc, but the fact he took a blue shirt was huge. If the coaching staff doesn't do everything they can for him (don't know they haven't) , they're lousy human beings.

That's what I care about. Treat him like you would a 4* legacy. I have no respect for those who play favorites. Again, I don't know what happened, but hopefully no 45 year-old adult made an 18 year-old kid's life difficult. Us old guys are supposed to serve.

This is extremely naive. And also, if the kid wants to play, releasing him from a place where he won't to go to a place where he will helps the kid accomplish that dream. It's not like Butch is keeping him from college or from playing.

I'm convinced most Tennessee fans would love to take 22 Knoxville kids every year. It's a good thing we have coaches who understand what has to happen.

[ReVOLver]

I know you're smart enough to have better reading comprehension than that. I said they're both symptoms of the same win-at-all-costs mentality. I mean, lung cancer and bad breath are both symptoms of smoking, but I doubt anyone would call that a comparison.

Laugh at that if you want, but your insulting tone is only because you can't debate the fact.

Oh I can debate the whole post but you're dead wrong about those two things being symptoms of the same thing. Penn state wasnt even winning, they were worshipping a dried up cult of personality. If you want to feel insulted, be my guest. It's an outrageous comparison that ruined an otherwise insightful post.

[Creek Walker]

Oh I can debate the whole post but you're dead wrong about those two things being symptoms of the same thing. Penn state wasnt even winning, they were worshipping a dried up cult of personality. If you want to feel insulted, be my guest. It's an outrageous comparison that ruined an otherwise insightful post.

I'm sorry. Maybe it's my reading comprehension skills that need work. Because I sure as hell missed the insightfulness you brought to the table. I'll go reread.

[Creek Walker]

Wait. Did you say Penn State wasn't winning? From 1993 (when the Sandusky indictments kicked in) until 2010, PSU won 71% of their games, with 7 seasons of 10+ wins, 7 more seasons where they missed 10 wins by just one game, and 10 bowl wins. How many teams had more wins during the same span? Not many.

And I suppose next you'll say that the Winston cover-up at FSU had nothing to do with winning?

[ReVOLver]

Wait. Did you say Penn State wasn't winning? From 1993 (when the Sandusky indictments kicked in) until 2010, PSU won 71% of their games, with 7 seasons of 10+ wins, 7 more seasons where they missed 10 wins by just one game, and 10 bowl wins. How many teams had more wins during the same span? Not many.

And I suppose next you'll say that the Winston cover-up at FSU had nothing to do with winning?

See you keep making good points and clouding it with dumb things. There is a reason why I didn't take issue with what you said about Winston.

Ok so Penn state was winning more than I gave them credit for. I still disagree with you. That wasn't about players. Not the same thing. Again a cult of personality who believed he was above reporting something. Completely different and for you to connect these two examples is ludicrous.

[ReVOLver]

I'm sorry. Maybe it's my reading comprehension skills that need work. Because I sure as hell missed the insightfulness you brought to the table. I'll go reread.

I was calling your post insightful other than throwing that odd connection in there.

Check your blood pressure bud. You seem upset.

[Creek Walker]

I was calling your post insightful other than throwing that odd connection in there.

Check your blood pressure bud. You seem upset.

LOL. See, it is my reading comprehension that needs work, because I thought it said insightful thread instead of insightful post.

However, my blood pressure is fine. I don't get upset when argumentative people disagree with me. I just lob it right back.

[Creek Walker]

Ok so Penn state was winning more than I gave them credit for. I still disagree with you.

Enough said. #ArguingForTheSakeOfArguing

[ReVOLver]

Enough said. #ArguingForTheSakeOfArguing

Well it's not all arguing for the sake of arguing. I do think you're wrong. But, this place needs some excitement. ;)