Rut roh

[HerbTarlekVol]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2016/02/09/sweeping-sexual-assault-suit-filed-against-ut/79966450/?hootPostID=7fa0aa729099d89d0723ae391e6c1046

[73Volgrad]

It was just a matter of time until a Title IX lawsuit was filed in Federal Court.  UT may or may not be able to buy itself out of this case. IMO this case will end up in court with UT likely to win if they followed Title IX guidelines. Due process is not overruled by Title IX. As long as UT had procedures in place that met Title IX and followed them, they should be safe. But you never know in Federal Court. It is odd that this suit relates only to alleged rapes involving football players and associates. IMO an out-of-court settlement with modifications to policy is likely the end result. Bottom line is you cannot convict or punish people based on accusations.

[PirateVOL]

It was just a matter of time until a Title IX lawsuit was filed in Federal Court.  UT may or may not be able to buy itself out of this case. IMO this case will end up in court with UT likely to win if they followed Title IX guidelines. Due process is not overruled by Title IX. As long as UT had procedures in place that met Title IX and followed them, they should be safe. But you never know in Federal Court. It is odd that this suit relates only to alleged rapes involving football players and associates. IMO an out-of-court settlement with modifications to policy is likely the end result. Bottom line is you cannot convict or punish people based on accusations.

This  typical though.  Fire a salvo, blast it as publically as possible and then whine at the end

[BanditVol]

Well if nothing else comes of it, they should probably jettison the administrative review process particularly since Tennessee is the only state in the union using it.  When I was in school any sort of administrative review process for a student was a huge joke.  People would speak of "The Big Orange Screw".  Student government was a powerless rubber stamp puppet (and yet at other universities it has real power).

Granted that was a while back and things have changed, but just reading about the process it sounds too arbitrary.

Also it seems to me that the resignation of vice chancellor Rogers could be an issue.

[Clockwork Orange]

Also it seems to me that the resignation of vice chancellor Rogers could be an issue.

This is what has me concerned that it isn't just smoke. Remember that whole Jenny Wright ordeal? At the time some of us who know her were sure she was being railroaded, and now I'm concerned that she and Rogers were whistleblowers who were quite effectively silenced. Boy, I hope that's not what happened though.

I'm worried. I hope UT has truly done everything in its power to foster the right culture on this campus WRT sexual harassment and assault but I think it's reasonable to doubt that.

[VOLveeta]

This is what has me concerned that it isn't just smoke. Remember that whole Jenny Wright ordeal? At the time some of us who know her were sure she was being railroaded, and now I'm concerned that she and Rogers were whistleblowers who were quite effectively silenced. Boy, I hope that's not what happened though.

I'm worried. I hope UT has truly done everything in its power to foster the right culture on this campus WRT sexual harassment and assault but I think it's reasonable to doubt that.

Good comment.  I'm worried too.  It shouldn't even come close to requiring the prerequisite, "as a father of a daughter"... but being that I am, I'm especially sensitive to this kinda stuff.  I can't imagine being a parent involved in a situation where my daughter was wronged and then the very institution I entrusted and counted on to protect her does the opposite.  I hope it's not true and Granny made a good point, in each case Butch threw the kid off the team immediately.  I just hope the treatment of the potential victims was not improper.  My love of the game can only go so far.

[Clockwork Orange]

My love of the game can only go so far.

I agree, and some of us have much more invested in UT these days than just sports fandom and a seal on our diplomas.

Campus sexual misconduct is certainly not a UT-only phenomenon. It's a national problem and we're all struggling to figure out how to change culture in a positive way. How institutions manage incidents is key and I really, really hope that UT (not just Butch-- who has seemingly done the right things) has been properly handling things.

[FLVOL]

and there's this: http://thebiglead.com/2016/02/09/lawsuit-claims-tennessee-football-players-assaulted-drae-bowles-for-helping-rape-victim/

[FLVOL]

reading the above linked article, to me, shows a lot of contradiction. Bowles was jumped by players, yet testified to the grand jury that he wasn't and that the victim didn't tell him that she was assaulted. Anyone else think that's a bit weird?

[Clockwork Orange]

reading the above linked article, to me, shows a lot of contradiction. Bowles was jumped by players, yet testified to the grand jury that he wasn't and that the victim didn't tell him that she was assaulted. Anyone else think that's a bit weird?

I'd consider the possibility that Bowles was torn about what the "right thing to do" was between an apparent assault victim and his friends and teammates-- especially if he wasn't sure what really happened to her.

So he may not be telling the whole story about one part or another to avoid getting people in trouble when he's not sure they deserve it? I don't know. Just a thought.

[FLVOL]

I'd consider the possibility that Bowles was torn about what the "right thing to do" was between an apparent assault victim and his friends and teammates-- especially if he wasn't sure what really happened to her.

So he may not be telling the whole story about one part or another to avoid getting people in trouble when he's not sure they deserve it? I don't know. Just a thought.

very possible, and if the allegations made in this article are true, some people need to be fired. Butch included. I'd rather have an irrelevant football program than a successful, yet dirty program.

[10EC]

Good comment.  I'm worried too.  It shouldn't even come close to requiring the prerequisite, "as a father of a daughter"... but being that I am, I'm especially sensitive to this kinda stuff.  I can't imagine being a parent involved in a situation where my daughter was wronged and then the very institution I entrusted and counted on to protect her does the opposite.  I hope it's not true and Granny made a good point, in each case Butch threw the kid off the team immediately.  I just hope the treatment of the potential victims was not improper.  My love of the game can only go so far.

How old is your daughter now?  Ava, right?  14 -15??  Scary times coming for you my friend.  Scary times....

[PirateVOL]

very possible, and if the allegations made in this article are true, some people need to be fired. Butch included. I'd rather have an irrelevant football program than a successful, yet dirty program.

That is just it, they are JUST allegations. 

[Clockwork Orange]

That is just it, they are JUST allegations. 

And we can hope they are unfounded. But if they aren't, people have to be held accountable.

[VOLveeta]

How old is your daughter now?  Ava, right?  14 -15??  Scary times coming for you my friend.  Scary times....

Oh Lordy, slow down.  She's eleven.  :-)  We're not at the point when the problem is boys, it's the other GIRLS that are the a-holes at this age.  God they're evil.

But of course, Ava is a perfect angel straight from Heaven above.   

[FLVOL]

That is just it, they are JUST allegations. 

agreed OJ, but you know how I am, just sayin

[10EC]

Oh Lordy, slow down.  She's eleven.  :-)  We're not at the point when the problem is boys, it's the other GIRLS that are the a-holes at this age.  God they're evil.

But of course, Ava is a perfect angel straight from Heaven above.   

My daughter turned 15 yesterday...  She already knows I'll make her dates life hell... In a way, it drives her nuts.  In another.... I think she knows I have her back.

It's really cool the conversations I have with her.  "You know honey... you WILL be at a party and some guy is going to offer you a drink.... Understand now that what is in that drink may be something that knocks you out.... "

It may or may not happen, but at least I have made her think about it.  

Oh, and she is a dead shot too...  

[VOLveeta]

My daughter turned 15 yesterday...  She already knows I'll make her dates life hell... In a way, it drives her nuts.  In another.... I think she knows I have her back.

It's really cool the conversations I have with her.  "You know honey... you WILL be at a party and some guy is going to offer you a drink.... Understand now that what is in that drink may be something that knocks you out.... "

It may or may not happen, but at least I have made her think about it.  

Oh, and she is a dead shot too...  

Oy... I'm not ready for that stuff.  Fortunately right now our biggest issues are making swim team practice on time and when to turn off the Minecraft.   

[Clockwork Orange]

My daughter turned 15 yesterday...  She already knows I'll make her dates life hell... In a way, it drives her nuts.  In another.... I think she knows I have her back.

It's really cool the conversations I have with her.  "You know honey... you WILL be at a party and some guy is going to offer you a drink.... Understand now that what is in that drink may be something that knocks you out.... "

It may or may not happen, but at least I have made her think about it.  

Oh, and she is a dead shot too...  

I think it's important for young girls to understand that most guys aren't out to take advantage of them but some guys ARE . . . and it's impossible to tell the difference. Act accordingly.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I simply want to see the truth come out and if it costs folks their jobs, then so be it.  They are supposed to be the level headed adults in the room.  When they start turning their backs and making excuses and letting things "go" it can lead to nothing positive.  Find who is responsible and get rid of them.  That was the "enema" I was referring to in another post. 

Having had a daughter attend a major university (UTC) this kind of thing obviously affects the way I look at where our society is.  Mrs. HTV and I did everything we knew to do to "raiser her right" and for the most part she made good decisions, but as has been posted already, even making good decisions isn't always enough.  There are evil people in the world who have bad intentions.  Again, not saying that is or isn't the case here, but it happens. 

And now that yesterday I found out that I am going to have a granddaughter due to come in to the world in late June this type of issue is completely renewed in my mind. Our society has got to look at what is being allowed to be covered up eliminate the potential for cover ups to continue to happen.

And again I emphasize, I simply want the truth to come out and those - if any - responsible for allowing it to happen and for any cover up that may have been allowed - to be responsible.  And I don't care who those persons are - they need to be held responsible. 

[Creek Walker]

And now that yesterday I found out that I am going to have a granddaughter due to come in to the world in late June this type of issue is completely renewed in my mind.  

[Creek Walker]

While I'd say there are a few folks in the administration whose buttholes are clinching right now, I'm not too worried about it from the standpoint of the football program just yet. All appearances are that Butch Jones has tried to handle these matters the right way. But like Herb, I want to see anyone and everyone responsible for handling these matters wrongly -- if they were in fact handled wrongly -- lose their jobs. If that includes Butch, so be it. Sexual assault on campuses is a major problem across America, but it's an even bigger problem at major football schools because way too much is being done to protect the perpetrators in the name of winning (either directly on the field or by avoiding a black eye in the court of public perception). It's time to do something about it. No better place for that to start than the University of Tennessee.

[PirateVOL]

While I'd say there are a few folks in the administration whose buttholes are clinching right now, I'm not too worried about it from the standpoint of the football program just yet. All appearances are that Butch Jones has tried to handle these matters the right way. But like Herb, I want to see anyone and everyone responsible for handling these matters wrongly -- if they were in fact handled wrongly -- lose their jobs. If that includes Butch, so be it. Sexual assault on campuses is a major problem across America, but it's an even bigger problem at major football schools because way too much is being done to protect the perpetrators in the name of winning (either directly on the field or by avoiding a black eye in the court of public perception). It's time to do something about it. No better place for that to start than the University of Tennessee.

Actually in most schools it is just the opposite.  All men are guilty and cannot be proven innocent.  There are ZERO (0) rights for accused on most college campuses today.
Example?  Glad you asked - se Virginia

[HerbTarlekVol]

And our administration doesn't help themselves by allowing pics like this to be taken - and it was taken after AJ had been indicted. 

https://twitter.com/TheVOLColonel/status/697454562366656513

[10EC]

I think it's important for young girls to understand that most guys aren't out to take advantage of them but some guys ARE . . . and it's impossible to tell the difference. Act accordingly.

Me: "Honey, all men are pigs"
Daughter: "What about you daddy?"
Me: "Honey, Daddy is a pig too"