So why do so many people seem to point out in one breath that UT has been

[Jean Voljean]

decimated by injuries and in the next breath that if we don't win out the rest of the season Butch is a failure?

I don't get it.  Most of our remaining schedule, while not on a par with the SEC best, are not bad teams.  These games are not gimmes even if we were healthy.  And the Vols are anything but healthy.  Why shouldn't that be taken into account when assessing our progress?

[BanditVol]

decimated by injuries and in the next breath that if we don't win out the rest of the season Butch is a failure?

I don't get it.  Most of our remaining schedule, while not on a par with the SEC best, are not bad teams.  These games are not gimmes even if we were healthy.  And the Vols are anything but healthy.  Why shouldn't that be taken into account when assessing our progress?

Football fans are highly irrational.   


Also, the people saying the first are not necessarily the same saying the second.   My guess is that those saying a loss is unacceptable are likely downplaying the injuries.

[Black Diamond Vol]

If we don't win out I'll be disappointed, but Butch will get a pass from me.  We seem to get bit by the injury bug more than most, but this season has been unlike anything I've ever seen. There is literally only one team in America that has recruited well enough that they could make it through a similar rash of injuries unscathed (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).  I think Butch proved his worth in the first five games, before the injuries got out of hand.

That said, I do hope he'll tear this thing down to the studs in the offseason to hopefully find and correct the root cause.  This seems to happen to us every year to some extent.  In fairness, it predates Butch's tenure.  But it needs to stop.

[LouisVOL]

Ditto.

If we don't win out I'll be disappointed, but Butch will get a pass from me.  We seem to get bit by the injury bug more than most, but this season has been unlike anything I've ever seen. There is literally only one team in America that has recruited well enough that they could make it through a similar rash of injuries unscathed (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).  I think Butch proved his worth in the first five games, before the injuries got out of hand.

That said, I do hope he'll tear this thing down to the studs in the offseason to hopefully find and correct the root cause.  This seems to happen to us every year to some extent.  In fairness, it predates Butch's tenure.  But it needs to stop.

[RockinGrannyVol]

If we don't win out I'll be disappointed, but Butch will get a pass from me.  We seem to get bit by the injury bug more than most, but this season has been unlike anything I've ever seen. There is literally only one team in America that has recruited well enough that they could make it through a similar rash of injuries unscathed (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).  I think Butch proved his worth in the first five games, before the injuries got out of hand.

That said, I do hope he'll tear this thing down to the studs in the offseason to hopefully find and correct the root cause.  This seems to happen to us every year to some extent.  In fairness, it predates Butch's tenure.  But it needs to stop.

Agree...and honestly, I have said all along that by this year, we should compete for a SEC Championship -- which we are, in spite of all the injuries!  I hope we can win out and go to the SECC......anyone that is disappointed in that is crazy as hell.   We still have some rebuilding to do and some things to get fixed, but Butch is pretty much right where I expected him to be 4 years in.   

[Creek Walker]

I'm pretty much where BDV is. Butch still hasn't convinced me that he's a championship-level coach. Actually, I still think there are some staff changes he needs to make. But he has shown that a.) he can make the proper in-game adjustments to win football games, b.) he can get 100% effort from his players, c.) he can win when the game is on the line. At least two of those things were in doubt in previous seasons. I'll be bitterly disappointed if we don't win the East this season, if for no reason other than I think this is our best shot at winning it. But given the injuries, it's hard to say too much if we don't...as long as our players who ARE playing are in the position to make the plays and the effort is there.

My concern going forward is actually more about recruiting. I'm just not convinced that Butch is recruiting at the level he needs to be right now to sustain success. I said this over a year ago and a bunch of #badword#s on Twitter went berserk. Fast-forward 12-14 months or so and we're still recruiting 3-stars. Say what you want about star-gazing but 3-stars don't win consistently in the SEC. We saw Saturday what happens when you throw 3-stars up against 5-stars. With that said, a couple of blue-chip commitments can change the perception of the current recruiting class in a hurry.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I think it has a lot to do with developing depth more than anything else. 

Butch has proved that he can recruit talent but for whatever reason the guys he is recruiting seem to be boom or bust - there doesn't seem to be any in between, or rather guys who can step in and fill holes. 

The jury is still out on Butch and this staff as on the field coaches.  I just don't see how anybody can look objectively and not see that. 

[BanditVol]

Agree...and honestly, I have said all along that by this year, we should compete for a SEC Championship -- which we are, in spite of all the injuries!  I hope we can win out and go to the SECC......anyone that is disappointed in that is crazy as hell.   We still have some rebuilding to do and some things to get fixed, but Butch is pretty much right where I expected him to be 4 years in.   

I agree Granny.  I have said since his hiring that we should be favored, or no worse than the 2nd pick, to win the East in Butch's fourth year, and that we should be mentioned as a contender in his third, which we were.

I really do hope we win out.  We get some guys healthy, and Atlanta likely looks a lot better than this past weekend no matter who we play.   

[BanditVol]

I'm pretty much where BDV is. Butch still hasn't convinced me that he's a championship-level coach. Actually, I still think there are some staff changes he needs to make. But he has shown that a.) he can make the proper in-game adjustments to win football games, b.) he can get 100% effort from his players, c.) he can win when the game is on the line. At least two of those things were in doubt in previous seasons. I'll be bitterly disappointed if we don't win the East this season, if for no reason other than I think this is our best shot at winning it. But given the injuries, it's hard to say too much if we don't...as long as our players who ARE playing are in the position to make the plays and the effort is there.

My concern going forward is actually more about recruiting. I'm just not convinced that Butch is recruiting at the level he needs to be right now to sustain success. I said this over a year ago and a bunch of #badword#s on Twitter went berserk. Fast-forward 12-14 months or so and we're still recruiting 3-stars. Say what you want about star-gazing but 3-stars don't win consistently in the SEC. We saw Saturday what happens when you throw 3-stars up against 5-stars. With that said, a couple of blue-chip commitments can change the perception of the current recruiting class in a hurry.

I share your concern about recruiting.  Butch's first year was mediocre, but he inherited that mess from Dooley, and we got lucky on a couple (Dobbs and Sutton).  Next two years were outstanding, although inflated a bit by numbers (which we needed).  This year was not so great, but everyone understood we were short on numbers due to over recruiting the previous two years.

Which brings us to this year....currently a top 10 class, but expected to drop as other teams match our numbers  Not terrible but could be better.

The thing about Butch is he has built a nice base, a very nice base, regardless of what anyone thinks of him.  Plenty of talent though it could be better.  Everyone knows next year is a big test for him, which, if he does not survive, likely ruins the 2018 class. So this coming class is critical.  To compete in the SEC, you need top 5 classes, not top 10.

So I am concerned.  But at the same time, it's not like we are down at 40 like we were in Dooley's last year.  If at the end of the day we are 8/9 in this coming class, that's acceptable even if not quite where I would like it to be.

[volsboy]

I think it is a combination of things. Depth and injuries go together. Deep teams overcome. Look at the Buckeyes Qb's a couple years ago. Third string won the title. On field coaching and game plans matter as well. The best chance of beating Bama is to get them in a track meet. Open it up. Don't play to their strength by trying to run between the tackles. I was watching an SEC network talk show and they were talking about this. They also mentioned last year against UF. They said why do you only rush three on 4th down and give up a touch down. One thing I do agree with is that good teams improve as the season moves ahead. The Vols have not improved significantly. They were 5-0 and still hadn't played a "good" game. Have never really put together four quarters of "good" football. If and when the Vols do, they would spank people. Now we are worried about Vandy, USCe and Ky. This season has just been weird. One good thing about being a Vol fan is we haven't taken too many butt-whoopings over the years. It is not something we are accustomed to.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Speaking of injuries, Brice reporting things might not look rosy for AK. 

[volsboy]

Who does not think the rest of our SEC games are not going to be nail-biters. Given our first 5 games we could have just as easily been 2-3, 3-2.

[PirateVOL]

Who does not think the rest of our SEC games are not going to be nail-biters. Given our first 5 games we could have just as easily been 2-3, 3-2.

Apparently, not surprisingly, you

[volsboy]

just being honest. No excuse this year. The East is not that strong. Look at all the new coaching staffs in the East. This season was stacked very favorable schedule wise. The Vols will still win the East, just not as easy as we thought. 10-2 is still looking at us.

[BanditVol]

There MIGHT be a nail biter, or even two.  I think we win easily against certainly Tech, but also Mizzou at home and Kentucky.  USC jr on the road will be tougher, considering all the injuries and that we may have a hangover from the bammer loss.  Vandy in Nashville will likely be a fairly close game to close the season.  The only thing about Vandy is that (a) we should definitely have some guys healthy by then, and (b) in the cases where we don't, backups will have more PT in.

I expect 5-0 down the stretch.

[Tnphil]

IMO USC won't be a easy game.....They are better than last year and we were a fumble on our 8 away from losing that dang game at home.....We are banged up and have many more players out than we did last year and we are playing on the road. That game worries me to be honest.

[Cobbvol]

To be honest, I am pleased with where we are with our record. 5-2 and getting healed up before the last run to achieve 10-2 and a possible SEC title and/or Big6 bowl appearance. I do think HC Jones needs to evaluate the program and his staff to determine if more changes are needed (like another strong recruiter). The good thing is he is not afraid of making these changes to improve the program.

[volsboy]

Answer this honestly....would any of the SEC East teams be in the top 3 or 4 teams in the West if they played a West schedule? BTW...saw today that the line for aTm and Bama is 19.5 to Bama. That would be a tempting bet..but I wouldn't wager anything on it.

[BanditVol]

Answer this honestly....would any of the SEC East teams be in the top 3 or 4 teams in the West if they played a West schedule? BTW...saw today that the line for aTm and Bama is 19.5 to Bama. That would be a tempting bet..but I wouldn't wager anything on it.

Hard to say.  We almost beat Tamu and I think we give LSU a good game, so we could in theory be in the top 2.  Having just lost to bammer, I will admit no. 1 is out of reach this year.

What...3 or 4?  WTF are you smoking.  By definition, given the close call on the road at Tamu, I'd say yes.

We can definitely take Auburn.  Ark would be another tough game like last year.  But fully healthy we could beat anyone but bammer, and I only leave them out cause we did actually lose to them.

[PirateVOL]

What...3 or 4?  WTF are you smoking.  By definition, given the close call on the road at Tamu, I'd say yes.

Well, we are talking Tennessee High here ...

[Cobbvol]

Answer this honestly....would any of the SEC East teams be in the top 3 or 4 teams in the West if they played a West schedule? BTW...saw today that the line for aTm and Bama is 19.5 to Bama. That would be a tempting bet..but I wouldn't wager anything on it.

Yes I think we would be in the Top 4 in the West playing a West schedule.

[volsboy]

I am just going on how the Vols have performed in their games. Is Appy, Ohio and UGa, and UF and VaTech better better than Ole Miss, aTm, LSU, Arky and Auburn. I say no. Ole Miss stomped UGa and gave Bama a real scare. We were a dropped hail mary from loosing to UGa and you know how we competed against Bama. But we are 5-2, which is about where we are supposed to be. How would you like to finish up the year with LSU's schedule instead of our weak bottom of the East schedule?

[PirateVOL]

I am just going on how the Vols have performed in their games. Is Appy, Ohio and UGa, and UF and VaTech better better than Ole Miss, aTm, LSU, Arky and Auburn. I say no. Ole Miss stomped UGa and gave Bama a real scare. We were a dropped hail mary from loosing to UGa and you know how we competed against Bama. But we are 5-2, which is about where we are supposed to be. How would you like to finish up the year with LSU's schedule instead of our weak bottom of the East schedule?

You are going on pure, unadulterated hatred of Butch.  Nothing more, nothing less.  You don't have a CLUE how the game is played so you result to the only thing you have left, your feelings, such as they are.

[Creek Walker]

How would you like to finish up the year with LSU's schedule instead of our weak bottom of the East schedule?

You surely aren't as ignorant as you act. I mean, you can't be. Do you realize that UT's strength of schedule is currently the sixth-toughest in the country? LSU's SOS is middle of the pack in the SEC. There's a reason our 2nd half schedule is weaker than LSU's.

[PirateVOL]

You surely aren't as ignorant as you act. I mean, you can't be. Do you realize that UT's strength of schedule is currently the sixth-toughest in the country? LSU's SOS is middle of the pack in the SEC. There's a reason our 2nd half schedule is weaker than LSU's.

FACTS is a four (4) letter word in his fantasy land