This is Halloween-spookiness...

[Creek Walker]

1992.
5-0 start.
Top 10 national ranking.
Two straight losses to SEC West teams.
Still ranked No. 16, though.
Halloween weekend trip to Columbia to face USCe team that's 2-4 in SEC play.
Freshman QB enters at midseason for Gamecocks, leading winless team to back-to-back wins before UT game.
Chickens win 24-23. A 2-loss Florida team backs into the SECCG.

2016.
5-0 start.
Top 10 national ranking.
Two straight losses to SEC West teams.
Still ranked No. 18, though.
Halloween weekend trip to Columbia to face USCe team that's 1-4 in SEC play.
Freshman QB enters at midseason for Gamecocks, leading team that hasn't won in over a month to a win before UT game.

Let's not let history repeat itself and again allow a 2-loss Florida team to back into the SECCG.

[PirateVOL]

All in, will be in Columbia Saturday night - a lot warmer this year than two years ago

The last trip to Columbia started the VOL comeback IMO.

BTW, for whatever reason, I cam across your old blog post concerning Urban LIAR this morning; good observations and writing Top 1% of the 1&) in my view

[BanditVol]

1992.
5-0 start.
Top 10 national ranking.
Two straight losses to SEC West teams.
Still ranked No. 16, though.
Halloween weekend trip to Columbia to face USCe team that's 2-4 in SEC play.
Freshman QB enters at midseason for Gamecocks, leading winless team to back-to-back wins before UT game.
Chickens win 24-23. A 2-loss Florida team backs into the SECCG.

2016.
5-0 start.
Top 10 national ranking.
Two straight losses to SEC West teams.
Still ranked No. 18, though.
Halloween weekend trip to Columbia to face USCe team that's 1-4 in SEC play.
Freshman QB enters at midseason for Gamecocks, leading team that hasn't won in over a month to a win before UT game.

Let's not let history repeat itself and again allow a 2-loss Florida team to back into the SECCG.

Two words.

Johhny.  Majors. 

No worries.

 

[BanditVol]

Here's something I am not sure anyone else noticed.  With the recent loss to Tamu, the Vols now have established the dubious tradition of losing their first game to every single new team added since 1992.  Majors managed to lose to both Arkansas (a WINLESS Arkansas, at that) and USC jr in the first year, thereby costing us a spot in the first SECCG (and another shot at a bammer team we only lost to by a TD).

Dooley managed to blow a sure win against Mizzou in 2012.

We gave Tamu 7 turnovers in a game we coulda woulda shoulda won.

Of the above, the worst loss is Arkansas (one of our worst in history), but Mizzou in 2011 and USC in 1992 we were also hugely favored.

We were a dog at Tamu, but still should have one.

Oh well.  We will have to compensate by beating them all the next 10 in  a row.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Speaking of Halloween- if I were getting a costume this year, I'd totally be Laremy Tunsil.

[tshadow]

I see that, I think, Dr. Who.

[Creek Walker]

Two words.

Johhny.  Majors. 

No worries.

 

Based on the body of work thus far, I'd take Majors over Jones any day of the week.

[BanditVol]

Based on the body of work thus far, I'd take Majors over Jones any day of the week.

Seriously? Here are Majors records his first four years.

4-7
5-5-1
7-5
5-6

Two losing records, one 500 season, and a berth in the Garden State bowl in the 7-5 year that was promptly canceled the next year.

Jones has had 3/4 winning seasons so far.

WTF dude?       Sorry, sometimes I can't take you seriously.

[Creek Walker]

Majors won 3 SEC championships in 6 years. Are you at all confident that Jones can do the same? Don't feel bad about not being able to take me seriously. I've never taken you very seriously. 

[BanditVol]

Majors won 3 SEC championships in 6 years. Are you at all confident that Jones can do the same? Don't feel bad about not being able to take me seriously. I've never taken you very seriously. 

Right. after what, 14 years?  Give me a break. 

Are you seriously comparing Jones first four years to Majors first four?  There is no comparison. 

As for Majors, he split the 1989 championship with bammer and Auburn.  That can't happen anymore, it's tougher to win nowadays.  1990?  Only because Florida was on probation.   1985 would have been a split with Florida...but again, they were on probation.

You argue there were asterisks on all three.

[Creek Walker]

Fine, place the asterisk by them if that helps to justify your weak argument. But they still count. You didn't answer my question: are you at all confident that Butch can win the SEC 3  times in 6 years? It doesn't look like Butch will win the East when the East is the weakest it's ever been -- by a long shot. If you want to be a sunshine pumper, that's your right. But I'll continue to call it like I see it.

[BanditVol]

Fine, place the asterisk by them if that helps to justify your weak argument. But they still count. You didn't answer my question: are you at all confident that Butch can win the SEC 3  times in 6 years? It doesn't look like Butch will win the East when the East is the weakest it's ever been -- by a long shot. If you want to be a sunshine pumper, that's your right. But I'll continue to call it like I see it.

Yes I think Butch can win 3 SEC championships in 6 years.  Absolutely.  But it is more difficult nowadays, that's for sure.

If you want to take the very long 16 years that Johnny inflicted on Tennessee, then have at it. I am pretty sure you didn't pay attention until about 1989, so I guess that explains your attitude.  You weren't there when I moved to Knoxville in 1982 and everyone was sick of Johnny.  According to a room mate of mine in college whose family had season tickets from the early 70s, The only reasons Johnny wasn't gone by 1980 was that he was a hometown hero and because he upset Notre Dame.  Furthermore, after losing the first two games of 1981 by a huge margin, he was almost certainly gone at year's end but just managed to pull it out.

Can you explain how one week during the mid 80s he could beat bammer, and the next lose to Georgia Tech?  No?  Neither can I, and nor could any other Vol fan of that era.  Yes, we won the SEC in 1990 with a tie and a loss, but even though we pounded them Florida would have won it anyway had they not been on probation, as we were their only SEC loss.    Do you know who the tie was to?  That abortion of a 1990 game that we tied with bammer.  I knew a member of the team at the time and he said Carl Pickens was throwing his helmet on the sideline in frustration.  Did you know that in 1991 Pickens was the offensive rookie of the year, and Dale Carter was the defensive rookie of the year in the NFL?  We should have won the NC handily in 1990.  The team was that talented.

Finally, the reason I mentioned Johhny is this...Arkansa.  1992.  We are in the top 5.  Arkansas is winless and coming off a loss to the Citidel.  At home.  but Johnny managed to lose to them, after rushing back from surgery because he felt threatened by Fulmer.  He ruined the team chemistry and the season, and finally he was gone.

So yeah...I'll take Jones over Majors based on his body of work so far.  Give Jones 16 years and the talent Johnny had at the end and he could probably win 3 NCs in 6 years.   

[Creek Walker]

You're as hopeless as our mutual friend who's on the other side of the equation on this forum.

Butch just lost to the worst team Muschamp will ever have at South Carolina. Even with the injuries, Tennessee was a two-touchdown favorite, but came out and played uninspired, with a poor gameplan that was poorly executed...after a bye week, no less.

Butch Jones under-achieved in each of his first three years at Tennessee. Now we're 8 games into season four and Tennessee is yet to play up to expectations in a single game this season...with the possible exception of Texas A&M, and that one still ended in a loss.

When Johnny Majors came back to Tennessee, he had already won a national championship at Pitt. Butch is still coaching with a MAC mentality.

[BanditVol]

You're as hopeless as our mutual friend who's on the other side of the equation on this forum.

Butch just lost to the worst team Muschamp will ever have at South Carolina. Even with the injuries, Tennessee was a two-touchdown favorite, but came out and played uninspired, with a poor gameplan that was poorly executed...after a bye week, no less.

Butch Jones under-achieved in each of his first three years at Tennessee. Now we're 8 games into season four and Tennessee is yet to play up to expectations in a single game this season...with the possible exception of Texas A&M, and that one still ended in a loss.

When Johnny Majors came back to Tennessee, he had already won a national championship at Pitt. Butch is still coaching with a MAC mentality.

So I guess you feel really good that we lost, so you can feel like you won the argument?  Nice.   

Say what you want about Butch...he hasn't lost on his own home field to a winless team that lost to Citidel. 

He also didn't "under achieve in each of his first three seasons".  5-7 might be expected when you have two walkons in your DB two deep and the fastest defender runs a 4.6.

Give Jones another 12 years.  He'll get there!   That's how long your drunk hero took.   

[Creek Walker]

So I guess you feel really good that we lost, so you can feel like you won the argument?  Nice.   

I knew Tennessee had lost when I responded to this thread. I said at halftime that if Tennessee left Dobbs in the game, South Carolina would win -- period. Dobbs had the worst game of his career, and he's had some bad ones. He's never going to win games as a pocket-passer, and tonight he was bad in the pocket even by Dobbs' standards, and that's certainly where he was relegated to by a fantastic defensive scheme by South Carolina. Muschamp completely took away Dobbs' legs. Attempting to win the game with Dobbs in the pocket was coaching malpractice, though certainly expected.

And, yes, Butch has certainly under-achieved every season thus far. If you claim with a straight face that Tennessee was supposed to miss bowl eligibility in 2013 by losing to Vanderbilt at home, I'll call you a liar.

[Tnphil]

Butch is over his head plain and simple...If folks can't see it then you get what you deserve. This hasn't been a well coached team for 2 years...but we can hang our hats on beating the November teams (maybe) and a 2nd rate Big 10 team in a bowl game.

[BanditVol]

I knew Tennessee had lost when I responded to this thread. I said at halftime that if Tennessee left Dobbs in the game, South Carolina would win -- period. Dobbs had the worst game of his career, and he's had some bad ones. He's never going to win games as a pocket-passer, and tonight he was bad in the pocket even by Dobbs' standards, and that's certainly where he was relegated to by a fantastic defensive scheme by South Carolina. Muschamp completely took away Dobbs' legs. Attempting to win the game with Dobbs in the pocket was coaching malpractice, though certainly expected.

And, yes, Butch has certainly under-achieved every season thus far. If you claim with a straight face that Tennessee was supposed to miss bowl eligibility in 2013 by losing to Vanderbilt at home, I'll call you a liar.

Considering that Franklin was still coach, they still had current NFL WR Matthews (I think was his name), and we had lost to them by 27 the previous year, then yes, I can claim with a straight face that losing to Vandy was a reasonable expectation.  Dooley was that bad, and left Butch in that bad of a situation.

It's called logic and thinking...you might try it sometime instead of just blurting out your feelings.  

I mean, you can feel that we should not have lost to Vandy all you want, but they were in the middle of their third bowl trip, and were also in the midst of their second consecutive 9-win season. In short, they were a better team than UT by any objective measure.

I understand that Vol fans want to feel that we should never lose to Vandy, but as much as I loathe the SOB, Franklin was unfortunately a good coach, as we can be reminded by his recent win over Urban Meyer (which is about the only person, along with Saban,that I will root for Franklin against).

Logic says we should have been expected to lose to Vandy.  The fact that we were able to keep it close is actually a sign of progress.  Is that pathetic?  Yes.  but what about Dooleys' last two years was NOT pathetic?   During his last two seasons, he won one, count it, one, SEC game, and that was an OT triumph at Vandy in 2011.  Chaney gets credit for the 2012 win against UK.   

Taking over a team that beat down, against the best Vandy run since at least the 50s and maybe the 20s, yes, logically we should lose to Vandy.

But don't let that get in the way of your feelings.  Drink come chamomile tea.  You will feel better.   

[Creek Walker]

Considering that Franklin was still coach, they still had current NFL WR Matthews (I think was his name), and we had lost to them by 27 the previous year, then yes, I can claim with a straight face that losing to Vandy was a reasonable expectation.  Dooley was that bad, and left Butch in that bad of a situation.

It's called logic and thinking...you might try it sometime instead of just blurting out your feelings.  

I mean, you can feel that we should not have lost to Vandy all you want, but they were in the middle of their third bowl trip, and were also in the midst of their second consecutive 9-win season. In short, they were a better team than UT by any objective measure.

I understand that Vol fans want to feel that we should never lose to Vandy, but as much as I loathe the SOB, Franklin was unfortunately a good coach, as we can be reminded by his recent win over Urban Meyer (which is about the only person, along with Saban,that I will root for Franklin against).

Logic says we should have been expected to lose to Vandy.  The fact that we were able to keep it close is actually a sign of progress.  Is that pathetic?  Yes.  but what about Dooleys' last two years was NOT pathetic?   During his last two seasons, he won one, count it, one, SEC game, and that was an OT triumph at Vandy in 2011.  Chaney gets credit for the 2012 win against UK.   

Taking over a team that beat down, against the best Vandy run since at least the 50s and maybe the 20s, yes, logically we should lose to Vandy.

But don't let that get in the way of your feelings.  Drink come chamomile tea.  You will feel better.   

There's a fine line between being a cheerleader and being a tool.

[BanditVol]

Butch is over his head plain and simple...If folks can't see it then you get what you deserve. This hasn't been a well coached team for 2 years...but we can hang our hats on beating the November teams (maybe) and a 2nd rate Big 10 team in a bowl game.

It appears he is, but he was so much better than his predecessor.  I know, I know.  Dooley...worst coach of all time.  Well no, but he likely is the worst Tennessee coach of all time.  Definitely the worst since Neyland arrived in 1926,

Still, considering what he began with, I give Jones credit for bringing us back to relevance.  I know, I know.  We are not relevant now.  But we had a legit shot to win the East this year, and were even the favorite.  Those were my expectations of Jones, and he had it in his grasp but blew it.

So now for the first time I tihnk there is a better than 50% chance he is gone, likely next year, but if things go south enough, even this year.

Unfortunately I don't think that's good.  Better if he pulled off the trip to Atlanta, used it to improve the recruiting class and then let next season be the decider in his long term future at UT. 

Now he is under significantly more pressure next year, and there is a decent chance he won't survive this year.   Not IMO the best course for our program.

But let me say this...even as this season disappoints me, we are so, so much better than where we began, and on this day, following his most damaging loss to date, I for one will acknowledge the effort and dedication he put into the job.  If we finish 10-3, it's still tied for our best record since 2001, and that is still pretty good, no matter how butt hurt some of us are about yesterday. 

So thank you Butch for at least making Tennessee relevant for most of this season.   

[BanditVol]

There's a fine line between being a cheerleader and being a tool.

So...that's the difference between you and me right?  Don't be so hard on yourself.  I would never call you a "tool".  I actually have more respect for you than that (plus it's a violation of board rules). 

But...your opinion on whether UT should or should not have beaten Vandy in 2013 is clearly, IMO, mistaken.  TYFP.