This was not a good recruiting class

[Creek Walker]

There's just no way to spin it. This class was ranked in the Top 10 for months, but we all knew it was mostly because of numbers. It winds up at No. 17, but it's worse than that on paper. It's not even in the same ballpark as Alabama and Georgia.

The class is what it is. But Butch's efforts to spin it shows he's still stuck in the same PR mode he was stuck in back in November. He actually made the statement that he's never had to turn away as many talented recruits as he did this year because of numbers. Really? REALLY???

[BanditVol]

He probably did turn away quite a few 2-stars 

These recruiting class is about what I thought it would be. It's the second in a row at about this level.  The onus is now on Butch.  If he can win with these kids, he will have proven himself as a coach.  If not, we will have a new coach in a year or two and hopefully we make a homerun hire.

Butch was a significant upgrade over Dooley, which I know is not saying much, but I would argue that we are at least back at the level of Fulmer's last 4-5 years, which in retrospect was also much better than Dooley.  To me, the end of Fulmer's time (2003-4 and 2006-7) and the last couple years of Butch are sort of the minimum expected...to have a winning season, compete for the East and go to a bowl game. 

That doesn't mean we should just endlessly repeat the last two years, I expect little to no backsliding this year and significant improvement in 2017.  Butch is entering his fifth season.  He has righted the ship to something that I find minimally acceptable, but there needs to be a path up.  I guess we will see.

[Creek Walker]

He probably did turn away quite a few 2-stars 

These recruiting class is about what I thought it would be. It's the second in a row at about this level.  The onus is now on Butch.  If he can win with these kids, he will have proven himself as a coach.  If not, we will have a new coach in a year or two and hopefully we make a homerun hire.

Butch was a significant upgrade over Dooley, which I know is not saying much, but I would argue that we are at least back at the level of Fulmer's last 4-5 years, which in retrospect was also much better than Dooley.  To me, the end of Fulmer's time (2003-4 and 2006-7) and the last couple years of Butch are sort of the minimum expected...to have a winning season, compete for the East and go to a bowl game. 

That doesn't mean we should just endlessly repeat the last two years, I expect little to no backsliding this year and significant improvement in 2017.  Butch is entering his fifth season.  He has righted the ship to something that I find minimally acceptable, but there needs to be a path up.  I guess we will see.

This is the current threat, though: While Butch has done an excellent job restocking the program with talent, there has been a lot of attrition from the first of his two Top 5 signing classes (those guys would've finished this upcoming season, anyway, except for the ones who redshirted), and this '17 class is on par with the classes that Dooley signed. If we're looking for a new coach in a year or two, is the talent going to be right back where it was when Dooley was fired and Butch was hired? And if THAT is the case, let's not forget that one of the reasons Butch was able to restock the cupboard so quickly is because he benefited from back to back classes with a lot of in-state talent and legacy recruits...meaning the next coach, assuming there's a "next coach" in the next year or two, may not be able to build the talent back nearly as quickly. There's no denying that the product on the field right now is far, far ahead of the Dooley era, but at the same time, we seem to be in a bit of a tailspin that is about to enter its second decade.

[Tnphil]

As I posted a few months back....the data is out on Butch and it isn't good and top recruits have figured him out...

That said there is some good talent in this class and there is some good talent in the 2016 class....It's not as bad as some are moaning about. The issue is we don't have a head coach that can develop them to top level....Hope some of the new asst. coaches can.

[HerbTarlekVol]

7th in the SEC, 3rd in the SECE.  Not going to catch up with the top third of the SEC in talent level that way. 

[BanditVol]

This is the current threat, though: While Butch has done an excellent job restocking the program with talent, there has been a lot of attrition from the first of his two Top 5 signing classes (those guys would've finished this upcoming season, anyway, except for the ones who redshirted), and this '17 class is on par with the classes that Dooley signed. If we're looking for a new coach in a year or two, is the talent going to be right back where it was when Dooley was fired and Butch was hired? And if THAT is the case, let's not forget that one of the reasons Butch was able to restock the cupboard so quickly is because he benefited from back to back classes with a lot of in-state talent and legacy recruits...meaning the next coach, assuming there's a "next coach" in the next year or two, may not be able to build the talent back nearly as quickly. There's no denying that the product on the field right now is far, far ahead of the Dooley era, but at the same time, we seem to be in a bit of a tailspin that is about to enter its second decade.

This class is better than any Dooley class save the first. His first, partly inherited from Kiffin, was around 10th.  It backslid every year from there.  His last class was barely in the top 30.

Anyway, I follow Rivals and they had us at 15 a couple hours ago (too lazy to see if it changed).

It will play out one way or another. I'm not worried about it.  

One other thing...I keep hearing about the "legacy".  There really wasn't much of that.  I like Kelly as a safety and the Berry twins have certainly contributed.  I like Bates son but most seem to think he hasn't lived up to his rating.  That's only 4 guys.  As for in state talent, we lost quite a bit this year, so the lack of it isn't the issue.

I prefer to believe what a recruiting analyst said earlier today on 247....the Vols were an easier sell when rebuilding from the Dooley era, given our facilities tradition and conference.  What young player could resist rebuilding a power?  Early playing time and an easy standard to beat.

But now that we are a mediocre to good team, prospect might look tougher to young players.  Improving from 5-7 is a given with a new coach, a 9-4 coach in his 4th season can't sell the fresh start rebuild anymore.

As I said, this is no doubt a real challenge for Butch to win with this talent.  We will see. He does still have some top recruit upper classmen....all schools have attrition.

[murfvol]

The legacy class and Khalil's class were anomalies. Regardless of how much the legacies contributed, they anchored the class, and a high ranking generated buzz. What we saw this year is reality.

[HerbTarlekVol]

It really doesn't make a tinker's damn if we are 15th or 17th nationally.  What matters is that either way we are still 7th in the SEC and 3rd in the SECE.  That's who we are competing against. 

[SmokeyJoe]

Ever the optimist with all things Vols... I saw where we were 15th in final rankings. Not sure where 17th is coming from, and not that those two spots matter. That slot belongs to the reigning national champions, Clemson. So the issue to me is player development. We were right on track this year, and then Hurd & devastating injuries derailed the season. The OL should be an asset next year. I note that Charles Mosely is now listed as DL. I expect better DB play with better coaching. RB appears to be in good shape. QB, WR, LB will be question marks. I generally agree with Bandit's assessment of Butch's progress & status. But I am optimistic about team 121. They won't be chopped liver.

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[SmokeyJoe]

Hot off the press & a very interesting read.  All this hand wringing may or may not matter. We do not know the future.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2017-super-bowl-how-falcons-patriots-starters-were-rated-as-high-school-recruits/amp/?client=ms-android-americamovil-us

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[VinnieVOL]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZAAKPJEq1Ew" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZAAKPJEq1Ew</a>

[volsboy]

This is why, in my opinion, 8-9 wins is the ceiling with Jones as head coach. Plus, we all say he is a good recruiter, but even that has fallen off. I just don't think his x's and o's ability will mask talent deficiencies. His recruiting kind of masked his x's and o's ability up to now. I hope I am wrong. I just hope he beats one of the West teams this year, finally. Bama or LSU. Which one do we beat? Doesn't look good for that happening. All that being said, Auburn just had their 7th consecutive top 10 recruiting class, and they have not performed on par with that either. So who knows?

[BanditVol]

This is why, in my opinion, 8-9 wins is the ceiling with Jones as head coach. Plus, we all say he is a good recruiter, but even that has fallen off. I just don't think his x's and o's ability will mask talent deficiencies. His recruiting kind of masked his x's and o's ability up to now. I hope I am wrong. I just hope he beats one of the West teams this year, finally. Bama or LSU. Which one do we beat? Doesn't look good for that happening. All that being said, Auburn just had their 7th consecutive top 10 recruiting class, and they have not performed on par with that either. So who knows?

Per Rivals, Auburn is 14th, just a tad ahead of us.  Literally one point.  And you know, they did make the national championship game in 2013.   

[volsboy]

I know, but they have been up and down like a yo-yo.