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Author Topic: Here's some coaches records vs Top 25 teams I got from another forum.  (Read 4109 times)
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volsboy
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« on: July 19, 2017, 06:14:30 EDT »

Are you surprised at some of these records? Are you Jones appologists impressed with his record? One good side, he should only improve that record from here on.
10 P5 coaches with best record vs top 25 team who have coached 5 seasons or more. Also 10 P5 coaches with worst record vs top 25 team who have coached 5 seasons or more..........................

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Out of the 46 head coaches of Power teams that have completed at least five seasons at the helm (in the FBS), how many do you think have a career winning record vs. Top 25 opponents?

Half? A third?

How about 24 percent?

That’s right – just 11 of the current experienced Power head coaches are over .500 all-time vs. ranked opponents.

Here’s the exclusive honor roll.

11. BRIAN KELLY – NOTRE DAME – 19-18 (51.35%)

13 seasons as an FBS head coach (Central Michigan 2004-06, Cincinnati 2007-09 and Notre Dame 2010-present). 11-14 vs. Top 25 at Notre Dame.

10. DABO SWINNEY – CLEMSON – 18-17 (51.43%)

9 seasons as an FBS head coach (Clemson 2008-present).

9. KEVIN SUMLIN – TEXAS A&M – 15-14 (51.72%)

9 seasons as an FBS head coach (Houston 2008-11 and Texas A&M 2012-present). 12-13 vs. Top 25 at Texas A&M.

8. CHRIS PETERSEN – WASHINGTON – 14-13 (51.85%)

11 seasons as an FBS head coach (Boise State 2006-13 and Washington 2014-present). 6-9 vs. Top 25 at Washington.

7. MARK RICHT – MIAMI FLA. – 39-36 (52%)

16 seasons as an FBS head coach (Georgia 2001-15 and Miami Fla. 2016-present). 1-1 vs. Top 25 at Miami Fla.

6. GARY PATTERSON – TCU – 22-19 (53.7%)

16 seasons as an FBS head coach (TCU 2000-present).

5. JIM MORA – UCLA – 13-11 (54.2%)

5 seasons as an FBS head coach (UCLA 2012-present).

4. JIMBO FISHER – FLORIDA STATE – 17-10 (62.9%)

7 seasons as an FBS head coach (Florida State 2010-present).

3. NICK SABAN – ALABAMA – 73-40 (64.6%)

21 seasons as an FBS head coach (Toledo 1990, Michigan State 1995-99, LSU 2000-04 and Alabama 2007-present). 50-16 vs. Top 25 at Alabama.

2. DAVID SHAW – STANFORD – 20-10 (66.7%)

6 seasons as an FBS head coach (Stanford 2011 – present).

1. URBAN MEYER – OHIO STATE – 35-14 (71.4%)

15 seasons as an FBS head coach (Bowling Green 2001-02, Utah 2003-04, Florida 2005-10 and Ohio State 2012-present). 15-4 vs. Top 25 at Ohio State.

Honorable mention goes to Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh, who is 10-10, or spot on the .500 mark, vs. ranked opponents during his six years as an FBS head man (Stanford 2007-10 and Michigan 2015-present). He’s 4-4 vs. the Top 25 since he took over in Ann Arbor.

Also of note is Texas’ new head coach Tom Herman. With only two years of FBS head coaching experience, he didn’t make the list – but that doesn’t mean that his 6-0 mark vs. ranked opponents during his two seasons at Houston isn’t jaw dropping. It’s especially true given that he wasn’t coaching at a Power program.

Alabama’s Nick Saban wins the award for coaching the most seasons and maintaining the best record vs. the Top 25. His 21 years as an FBS head coach has afforded him the opportunity to lead his teams against a ranked foe a whopping 113 times.

The only active guys who come close in number of games are Miami (Fla.)’s Mark Richt who owns a 52% mark in 75 games vs. the Top 25 (all but two were while he was at Georgia) and Kansas State’s Bill Snyder who is 21-51-1 (30.4%) in 74 games.

It also means that the three active coaches, other than Saban, with a record above the 60% mark have lots of catching up to do. Florida State’s Jimbo Fisher has 86 games vs. the Top 25 to go to catch Saban and Stanford’s David Shaw has 83. Even Ohio State’s Urban Meyer, the top dog, is 64 games behind Saban. Not only do they each have lots of action ahead of them, they must keep winning at a high level to establish career numbers that even come close.

It puts into perspective the achievements of Bob Stoops who recently resigned at Oklahoma. He went 60-30 (66.7%) in 90 games vs. the Top 25 – if he had stayed around for the 2017 season it would have put him tied him for No. 2 on our list and only 23 games short of Saban.

What about the Bottom 10?

10. BUTCH JONES – TENNESSEE – 6-20 (23.1%)

10 seasons as an FBS head coach (Central Michigan 2007-09, Cincinnati 2010-12 and Tennessee 2013-present). 6-15 vs. Top 25 at Tennessee.

T9. MATT CAMPBELL – IOWA STATE – 2-8 (20%)

5 seasons as an FBS head coach (Toledo 2012-15 and Iowa State 2016-present). 0-4 vs. Top 25 at Iowa State.

T9. GARY ANDERSEN – OREGON STATE – 4-16 (20%)

8 seasons as an FBS head coach (Utah State 2009-12, Wisconsin 2013-14 and Oregon State 2015-present). 0-6 vs. Top 25 at Oregon State.

T7. JAMES FRANKLIN – PENN STATE – 3-15 (16.7%)

6 seasons as an FBS head coach (Vanderbilt 2011-13 and Penn State 2014-present). 2-7 vs. Top 25 at Penn State.

T7. DAN MULLEN – MISSISSIPPI STATE – 6-30 (16.7%)

8 seasons as an FBS head coach (Mississippi State 2009-present).

5. WILIE TAGGART – OREGON – 2-11 (15.4%)

7 seasons as an FBS head coach (Western Kentucky 2010-12, USF 2013-16 and Oregon – first season).

4. DAVE CLAWSON – WAKE FOREST – 2-15 (11.8%)

8 seasons as an FBS head coach (Bowling Green 2009-13 and Wake Forest 2014-present). 1-8 vs. Top 25 at Wake Forest.

3. DAVE DOEREN – NC STATE – 1-10 (9.1%)

6 seasons as an FBS head coach (Northern Illinois 2011-12 and NC State 2013-present). 0-9 vs. Top 25 at NC State.

2. MIKE MacINTYRE – COLORADO – 2-21 (8.7%)

7 seasons as an FBS head coach (San Jose State 2010-12 and Colorado 2013-present). 2-14 vs. Top 25 at Colorado.

1. STEVE ADDAZIO – BOSTON COLLEGE – 1-12 (7.7%)

6 seasons as an FBS head coach (Temple 2011-12 and Boston College 2013-present). 1-10 vs. Top 25 at Boston College.

It’s no surprise that the bulk of the bottom coaches lead/have led programs that don’t have a long history of championships. It makes you wonder – does the coach make the program or does the program make the coach?

Historical data courtesy of Sports Reference-College Football.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 05:09:40 EDT »

The last two years he is exactly 0.500 at 4-4 (2-2 each year).

The first year he was 1-6, but did manage to beat #11 USCe just one year after Dooley.  0-5 in 2014.

So...looks to me like we are headed in the right direction.   

And no matter what happened later in the season, the wins over UF and Uga last year were very satisfying to this Vol fan. 

But the "legions of the miserable" .... will be miserable.   
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 03:43:10 EDT »

Until he proves me wrong, I do not think Butch Jones can win championships at the Power 5 level, but I also don't think his record vs. the Top 25 at this point is a particularly good indicator of where he is as a coach. Remember, a lot of those games against Top 25 teams were actually against Top 5 teams or at least Top 10 teams...and against overwhelming odds.

The one that doesn't surprise me but that jumps out is Dan Mullen. He's had what were supposedly some of the best teams in Mississippi State history, and look at his record. It just goes to show that 1.) Mullen is not a great coach, and 2.) Mississippi State's ceiling is quite low.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 03:51:02 EDT »

The last two years he is exactly 0.500 at 4-4 (2-2 each year).

The first year he was 1-6, but did manage to beat #11 USCe just one year after Dooley.  0-5 in 2014.

So...looks to me like we are headed in the right direction.   

And no matter what happened later in the season, the wins over UF and Uga last year were very satisfying to this Vol fan. 

But the "legions of the miserable" .... will be miserable.   

And the last two years are all I really care about.  Of course he's going to struggle vs. ranked teams at Central Michigan and Cincinnati.  And his first two years at UT were in a stacked like never before SEC, with a couple of the worst rosters in UT history (and two straight years with zero draft picks to prove it).  Only in 2015 did he begin to work on a somewhat level playing field. 
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 11:34:15 EDT »

And the last two years are all I really care about.  Of course he's going to struggle vs. ranked teams at Central Michigan and Cincinnati.  And his first two years at UT were in a stacked like never before SEC, with a couple of the worst rosters in UT history (and two straight years with zero draft picks to prove it).  Only in 2015 did he begin to work on a somewhat level playing field. 

I am going to say that 8-4 is the basement I expect.  In other words, that is my minimum expectation for the Vols.  We should never be worse than that.  And that Jones got us there 3 years after the Dooley debacle is actually not bad at all, no matter how much some whine about it.

Also, let me point out that when I set a standard, generally one game less is acceptable (though just barely).  So for instance, this year I expect 7-5 but 6-6 would be enough for me to be okay with one more season for Jones.

And about this season...it's the final exception to my "8-4 is the floor" rule.  I am allowing that because of the tremendous number of leaders we lost from last year.  Consider it my final concession to Jones for inheriting the mess Dooley left behind.  From 2018 on, I expect 8-4 as a minimum.

I think the odds of 8 regular season wins or more this year are actually pretty good, but the intangibles of new QB, past inconsistency at OL, and lack of defensive performance at the end of last season (and was that coaching or injuries?) lead me to predict 7-5.  But I think 8 or 9 or even 10 wins is possible.
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volsboy
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 05:01:03 EDT »

I am going to say that 8-4 is the basement I expect.  In other words, that is my minimum expectation for the Vols.  We should never be worse than that.  And that Jones got us there 3 years after the Dooley debacle is actually not bad at all, no matter how much some whine about it.

Also, let me point out that when I set a standard, generally one game less is acceptable (though just barely).  So for instance, this year I expect 7-5 but 6-6 would be enough for me to be okay with one more season for Jones.

And about this season...it's the final exception to my "8-4 is the floor" rule.  I am allowing that because of the tremendous number of leaders we lost from last year.  Consider it my final concession to Jones for inheriting the mess Dooley left behind.  From 2018 on, I expect 8-4 as a minimum.

I think the odds of 8 regular season wins or more this year are actually pretty good, but the intangibles of new QB, past inconsistency at OL, and lack of defensive performance at the end of last season (and was that coaching or injuries?) lead me to predict 7-5.  But I think 8 or 9 or even 10 wins is possible.
I fully agree with you here. I just have issues with the way we say he has been an excellent recruiter yet we expect 7-8 wins this coming season. Why is this expected if his recruits are as good as billed? It just doesn't add up. On paper we should be better than 7 wins. Yet most are okay with 7-8 wins. Others schools start new QB's and do fine. I seriously hope we do the same this year. The OL is crucial. The new guys need to live up to their recruiting rankings. I still feel the previous 2 seasons were missed opportunities. The SEC East could not have lined up better than it did for us to win it. I just hope the season is coming soon where we all can say Butch Jones has overacheived.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 08:55:43 EDT »

I fully agree with you here. I just have issues with the way we say he has been an excellent recruiter yet we expect 7-8 wins this coming season. Why is this expected if his recruits are as good as billed? It just doesn't add up. On paper we should be better than 7 wins. Yet most are okay with 7-8 wins. Others schools start new QB's and do fine. I seriously hope we do the same this year. The OL is crucial. The new guys need to live up to their recruiting rankings. I still feel the previous 2 seasons were missed opportunities. The SEC East could not have lined up better than it did for us to win it. I just hope the season is coming soon where we all can say Butch Jones has overacheived.

We are replacing a really good QB who was also a really good leader, our best WR, our two best RBs, a first round DE who broke Reggie Whites sack record, an NFL DB.  In short, our four best skill players on offense and our two best defensive players are gone.

Does that help?
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volsboy
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 04:06:15 EDT »

We are replacing a really good QB who was also a really good leader, our best WR, our two best RBs, a first round DE who broke Reggie Whites sack record, an NFL DB.  In short, our four best skill players on offense and our two best defensive players are gone.

Does that help?
My main point is that the depth is obviously not there despite how well Jones has recruited. It will be hard to win the East  this year without a win over LSU or Bama.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 11:09:25 EDT »

A coach only has himself to blame if he does not play enough players to gain experience. Unless you get so many players injured you get down to 3rd or 4th team, you only have yourself to blame for playing your star all the time. If you cannot coach better (I think Butch had way too many ineffective and bad assistants), you get poor play. As evidenced by the wholesale staff changes, maybe Butch finally realized he made bad choices in coaches. If your recruits do not improve year-to-year or you make the decision S&C is not important, your team fall apart.

Butch is a great used car salesman. Let's see this year if he has grow as a manager and hired people who can coach at SEC level and not the mid-level coaches he had. Being loyal is noble, but it can get you fired.
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FLVOL
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 03:44:26 EDT »

(I think Butch had way too many ineffective and bad assistants)

This
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11B4PJ3F7
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 06:56:22 EDT »

A coach only has himself to blame if he does not play enough players to gain experience. Unless you get so many players injured you get down to 3rd or 4th team, you only have yourself to blame for playing your star all the time. If you cannot coach better (I think Butch had way too many ineffective and bad assistants), you get poor play. As evidenced by the wholesale staff changes, maybe Butch finally realized he made bad choices in coaches. If your recruits do not improve year-to-year or you make the decision S&C is not important, your team fall apart.

Butch is a great used car salesman. Let's see this year if he has grow as a manager and hired people who can coach at SEC level and not the mid-level coaches he had. Being loyal is noble, but it can get you fired.

^This
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BanditVol
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 11:54:18 EDT »

My main point is that the depth is obviously not there despite how well Jones has recruited. It will be hard to win the East  this year without a win over LSU or Bama.

Actually the depth is there, if we can avoid the injuries.  4 years of mostly good recruiting means depth.  Depth is so much better than 2012-3, but we are missing almost all of the "standouts" from last year.  I have a hunch that depth might prove to be more important actually, and that this season might be a pleasant surprise, but we will see.
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volsboy
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 04:03:08 EDT »

Actually the depth is there, if we can avoid the injuries.  4 years of mostly good recruiting means depth.  Depth is so much better than 2012-3, but we are missing almost all of the "standouts" from last year.  I have a hunch that depth might prove to be more important actually, and that this season might be a pleasant surprise, but we will see.
Believe it or not I feel the same way. I think they do better than expected. I think Jones is just going to shut up and coach. Especially with the new staff he has now.
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volsboyinsodak
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