Oh my !

[volsboy]

Tee is (I am told) a really hot commodity right now as OC for USC sr.  I don't want him to step in and be HC at all.  But bring back Cut (who coached Tee) as a caretaker for 3-5 years with Tee as the OC and it's implied he is our coach of the future.  I would be okay with that.

Peyton never won the NC, but Tee did.  Peyton doesn't want to coach, but Tee is.  It's a nice fit.   

I would be against hiring Martin. But that's just me. His performance seemed like he called it in during his '99 season. That was a tremendous underachieving team. No soup for him.

[BanditVol]

I would be against hiring Martin. But that's just me. His performance seemed like he called it in during his '99 season. That was a tremendous underachieving team. No soup for him.

Pffffttttbbbbbttt!

That was all on Randy Sanders.  When a single Florida player sacks your QB four times, and after the third sack, Tim Priest  states that "maybe we should put in an extra TE or Fullback", and that apparently hasn't occurred to your OC, that's not on the QB.    Or when you call a toss sweep on 4th down and it fails in 1999, then call the exact same play in 2000, and both plays end up costing you the game, that's on the OC.

Sanders found as many ways to lose as Butch Jones.   

I'll say this though...although I was quite vocal in my criticism of Sanders, looking back it was over the top, because now I see guys like you doing the same thing to Fulmer, Dooley, Jones.  I don't think Fulmer deserved most of it nor Jones some of it.  Dooley deserves pretty much all of it.   

But the lesson learned for me is that I was strident, angry, and bitter over Sanders, and that in retrospect I may have played a small role in hurting our program by being overly negative about it.  I had bammer fans digging into why I didn't like Sanders, for example, and I would let him have it with both barrels. 

Which brings me to my point. Criticism of the coach is expected, but at some point people should at least try and be constructive and even diplomatic about it, because at the end of the day it should be Vol fanbase against outsiders.  Overly negative or bitter posts hurt the perception of the program by outsiders, including recruits.

Be as critical as you want, but be careful not to overdo it, I say.

An example is a guy whose gone...Inspector Vol.  He was convinced that Jones was as bad as Dooley before Jones coached a single play and he never changed his opinion and was unrelentingly negative and pessimistic from Day 1.

That's ridiculous.  I see such tendencies from you also.   

[PirateVOL]

Pffffttttbbbbbttt!

That was all on Randy Sanders.  When a single Florida player sacks your QB four times, and after the third sack, Tim Priest  states that "maybe we should put in an extra TE or Fullback", and that apparently hasn't occurred to your OC, that's not on the QB.    Or when you call a toss sweep on 4th down and it fails in 1999, then call the exact same play in 2000, and both plays end up costing you the game, that's on the OC.

Sanders found as many ways to lose as Butch Jones.   

I'll say this though...although I was quite vocal in my criticism of Sanders, looking back it was over the top, because now I see guys like you doing the same thing to Fulmer, Dooley, Jones.  I don't think Fulmer deserved most of it nor Jones some of it.  Dooley deserves pretty much all of it.   

But the lesson learned for me is that I was strident, angry, and bitter over Sanders, and that in retrospect I may have played a small role in hurting our program by being overly negative about it.  I had bammer fans digging into why I didn't like Sanders, for example, and I would let him have it with both barrels. 

Which brings me to my point. Criticism of the coach is expected, but at some point people should at least try and be constructive and even diplomatic about it, because at the end of the day it should be Vol fanbase against outsiders.  Overly negative or bitter posts hurt the perception of the program by outsiders, including recruits.

Be as critical as you want, but be careful not to overdo it, I say.

An example is a guy whose gone...Inspector Vol.  He was convinced that Jones was as bad as Dooley before Jones coached a single play and he never changed his opinion and was unrelentingly negative and pessimistic from Day 1.

That's ridiculous.  I see such tendencies from you also.   

Tee is NOT a VFL, after flipping us off a few years ago when we flew him here and he decided to stay in LA

[murfvol]

Gotta disagree Pirate. His call not to work for Jones has been the right one. If he'd come here, he'd be languishing in obscurity instead of a hot commodity.

[BanditVol]

Tee is NOT a VFL, after flipping us off a few years ago when we flew him here and he decided to stay in LA

wanting to stay in SoCal where his wife has a "career" in hip hop is different than going there a year after accepting the HC position.  Yes...there are some speaking of bringing Kiffin back.  

Tee did what he thought was best for him and his family at the time.  Doesn't bother me a bit.  I'm not sure he's HC material, but if he is as good as most think as an OC, bring him in as the HC in training I say.  

I don't think Peyton will ever touch the coaching profession.

[Creek Walker]

Wait...we're letting a QB's performance in his senior season (which just happened to be 18 years ago) determine his worth as a coach?

It's a good thing the Lions didn't stumble across Jim Bob Cooter's game film.

I'm all about giving Tee a shot when the time is right. I would love for him to be our OC, although that clearly won't happen, for obvious reasons. But hiring him as head coach, as a lot of UT fans are suggesting? Nah. Same with JBC. And any other coordinator in America. It's time to throw big money at a proven coach.

I'm not sure how many more chances Tennessee has to get this right before its days as a front-running program are permanently past. I do know the Vols wouldn't be the first of college football's blue-blood programs to turn into a permanent also-ran.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I'm not sure how many more chances Tennessee has to get this right before its days as a front-running program are permanently past. I do know the Vols wouldn't be the first of college football's blue-blood programs to turn into a permanent also-ran.

Yep, which is why they can't gamble on keeping Jones for another year.  They've royally screwed up the last 3 hires.  This one has got to be the right hire.  Period. 

[BanditVol]

Wait...we're letting a QB's performance in his senior season (which just happened to be 18 years ago) determine his worth as a coach?

It's a good thing the Lions didn't stumble across Jim Bob Cooter's game film.

I'm all about giving Tee a shot when the time is right. I would love for him to be our OC, although that clearly won't happen, for obvious reasons. But hiring him as head coach, as a lot of UT fans are suggesting? Nah. Same with JBC. And any other coordinator in America. It's time to throw big money at a proven coach.

I'm not sure how many more chances Tennessee has to get this right before its days as a front-running program are permanently past. I do know the Vols wouldn't be the first of college football's blue-blood programs to turn into a permanent also-ran.

The part about Tee following Peyton is a joke, but its true he is actually coaching and not doing whatever Peyton is doing.

Good luck on getting it right. Who do you suggest?

And anyway Jones isnt quite gone yet.

Im good with Cut for sure, as a short term solution.

[VinnieVOL]

Tee would not be my first choice, or even my second or third.  But at the same time I feel like we could do worse, too. 

But Butch is as good as gone based on what I've read on other boards.  That's just the vibe I'm getting.  So whether it happens next week, or after Bama, or after the season...he won't be back.  I don't really care when it happens at this point.  It's all about getting the next hire right.  And based on what I've read on other boards, some people seem to be more optimistic about this admin this time around, so here's hoping.

[volsboy]

Tee would not be in my top 5 choices. But if he is the best we can do, then my how  far we have fallen!

[VinnieVOL]

Tee would not be in my top 5 choices. But if he is the best we can do, then my how  far we have fallen!

You know a lot of fans think their school should just be able to go hire absolutely anyone they want.  "Just back the truck up", but in reality it is actually kind of rare to hit the home run.  I heard Chris Lowe say on Swain's show that of the last 35 SEC coaching replacements only THREE of them have been a coach who was a head coach at another power 5 school:  Bret Bielema (who's in trouble), Les Miles, and Gene Chizik.  And a lot of people say "get used to hiring another nobody, we won't go for any big names.. we never do" but based one what people like Lowe have said... we've tried.  At the time we hired Kiffin, that was a pretty big splash hire.  And the timing of when he left us directly led to Dooley, because no big name at the time was going to do to their program what Lane did to us and come coach UT.  We should've just waited and did that hire right but the powers that be thought they had to save the recruiting class so they made a rush hire in Dooley.  Then after Dooley, (sidestepping the Gruden rumors) we were pretty dang close to getting Charlie Strong who backed out at the 11th hour because there were so many questions about our crappy roster.  Strong was one of the hottest coaches out there at the time. And of course we ended up with Butch, but I think TN tried and kicked the tires of some big names.

Look who LSU ended up with this last time and LSU is certainly a top 10 (top 5?) job.

Everyone thinks they can just find the next Saban but it's pretty difficult to do and a lot of it is timing and luck.  Rich Rod was Bama's "guy" and they thought he was their coach and he said no at the last minute and that's what led them to hand the keys to the kingdom to Saban.  It's amazing to think how the CFB world would've been different if Rich Rod hadn't backed out. 

And it's obvious to see why it's hard to get coaches from other power 5 conferences to come to the SEC.  Look at the pressure, if you don't win your conference and/or 10 wins in a couple years your job is on the line.

[Creek Walker]

You know a lot of fans think their school should just be able to go hire absolutely anyone they want.  "Just back the truck up", but in reality it is actually kind of rare to hit the home run.  I heard Chris Lowe say on Swain's show that of the last 35 SEC coaching replacements only THREE of them have been a coach who was a head coach at another power 5 school:  Bret Bielema (who's in trouble), Les Miles, and Gene Chizik.  And a lot of people say "get used to hiring another nobody, we won't go for any big names.. we never do" but based one what people like Lowe have said... we've tried.  At the time we hired Kiffin, that was a pretty big splash hire.  And the timing of when he left us directly led to Dooley, because no big name at the time was going to do to their program what Lane did to us and come coach UT.  We should've just waited and did that hire right but the powers that be thought they had to save the recruiting class so they made a rush hire in Dooley.  Then after Dooley, (sidestepping the Gruden rumors) we were pretty dang close to getting Charlie Strong who backed out at the 11th hour because there were so many questions about our crappy roster.  Strong was one of the hottest coaches out there at the time. And of course we ended up with Butch, but I think TN tried and kicked the tires of some big names.

Look who LSU ended up with this last time and LSU is certainly a top 10 (top 5?) job.

Everyone thinks they can just find the next Saban but it's pretty difficult to do and a lot of it is timing and luck.  Rich Rod was Bama's "guy" and they thought he was their coach and he said no at the last minute and that's what led them to hand the keys to the kingdom to Saban.  It's amazing to think how the CFB world would've been different if Rich Rod hadn't backed out. 

And it's obvious to see why it's hard to get coaches from other power 5 conferences to come to the SEC.  Look at the pressure, if you don't win your conference and/or 10 wins in a couple years your job is on the line.

If you look at the SEC from top to bottom, this is a league that is really devoid of quality coaches. I mean, who besides Nick Saban would top programs throughout CFB target as their head coach? Gus Malzahn? Probably. Kirby Smart? Maybe in a couple of years, if Georgia keeps trending the way they're trending. Who else? I think what we're seeing is that the pressure to win in this conference is a detriment. It's no coincidence that the SEC, so dominant 4-5 years ago, is now Alabama and the 13 dwarves, as the coaching talent has also dropped off.

That's what scares me a little bit about our looming coaching search. I would go after proven winners like Kelly and Stoops, but if they won't come here, my first call would be to Justin Fuente...yet, why would Fuente leave the ACC to come to the SEC?

[BanditVol]

You know a lot of fans think their school should just be able to go hire absolutely anyone they want.  "Just back the truck up", but in reality it is actually kind of rare to hit the home run.  I heard Chris Lowe say on Swain's show that of the last 35 SEC coaching replacements only THREE of them have been a coach who was a head coach at another power 5 school:  Bret Bielema (who's in trouble), Les Miles, and Gene Chizik.  And a lot of people say "get used to hiring another nobody, we won't go for any big names.. we never do" but based one what people like Lowe have said... we've tried.  At the time we hired Kiffin, that was a pretty big splash hire.  And the timing of when he left us directly led to Dooley, because no big name at the time was going to do to their program what Lane did to us and come coach UT.  We should've just waited and did that hire right but the powers that be thought they had to save the recruiting class so they made a rush hire in Dooley.  Then after Dooley, (sidestepping the Gruden rumors) we were pretty dang close to getting Charlie Strong who backed out at the 11th hour because there were so many questions about our crappy roster.  Strong was one of the hottest coaches out there at the time. And of course we ended up with Butch, but I think TN tried and kicked the tires of some big names.

Look who LSU ended up with this last time and LSU is certainly a top 10 (top 5?) job.

Everyone thinks they can just find the next Saban but it's pretty difficult to do and a lot of it is timing and luck.  Rich Rod was Bama's "guy" and they thought he was their coach and he said no at the last minute and that's what led them to hand the keys to the kingdom to Saban.  It's amazing to think how the CFB world would've been different if Rich Rod hadn't backed out. 

And it's obvious to see why it's hard to get coaches from other power 5 conferences to come to the SEC.  Look at the pressure, if you don't win your conference and/or 10 wins in a couple years your job is on the line.

Very well put.  It's one thing to blindly rail against the coaches and assume it's just a matter of money to "hire a big name".   Except that it isn't.    Which is why IMO the firing of Fulmer was at best handled very poorly, and at worst was way premature.  But the powers that be apparently listened to the least patient and most uninformed and/or bitter/jealous part of our fanbase.

Interesting stat about the P5 schools.    It's worth noting that both Miles and Chizik won the NC.  Of course, Miles did it with a program inherited from Saban and then benefited from a weak crop of contenders (LSU is the only NC with two losses in history).  And Chizik hit a home run with the sketchy signing of Cam Newton, so I take both those NCs with a grain of salt.

Still...Mike Leach, come on down! 

[BanditVol]

If you look at the SEC from top to bottom, this is a league that is really devoid of quality coaches. I mean, who besides Nick Saban would top programs throughout CFB target as their head coach? Gus Malzahn? Probably. Kirby Smart? Maybe in a couple of years, if Georgia keeps trending the way they're trending. Who else? I think what we're seeing is that the pressure to win in this conference is a detriment. It's no coincidence that the SEC, so dominant 4-5 years ago, is now Alabama and the 13 dwarves, as the coaching talent has also dropped off.

That's what scares me a little bit about our looming coaching search. I would go after proven winners like Kelly and Stoops, but if they won't come here, my first call would be to Justin Fuente...yet, why would Fuente leave the ACC to come to the SEC?

I think we have to go after Stoops "just cause" he's Stoops, but he is out of coaching for good.  Why would he leave OU to come to Tennessee?  Additionally, some who are calling for him have been critical of him for losing three NC games after winning one (personally I'd take that in a heartbeat, and not just because we're down). 

Which is another point you make above without realizing it.  Saban himself said of the firing of Miles and firing (? or mutual end of relationship?) of Richt.  He said the expectations are ridiculous and that neither coach should have gone.  Which points to the real problem, the ridiculous and inflated fan expectations.

It's fans that are ultimately driving up the salaries, fans that get butt hurt at every loss, fans that are being ridiculous. 

And just because it's that way, doesn't make it right.  It's a freaking joke that a college football coach makes over a million dollars at all, IMO.  The market is driving it, but the market is slightly crazy, IMO.   

[VinnieVOL]

That's what scares me a little bit about our looming coaching search. I would go after proven winners like Kelly and Stoops, but if they won't come here, my first call would be to Justin Fuente...yet, why would Fuente leave the ACC to come to the SEC?

Same thing with Patterson at TCU.  His name gets mentioned every year with a major school vacancy.  But he's got no pressure there comparatively speaking.  He had a losing record last year but they weren't losing their minds wanting him fired (that I'm aware of).  Why would he come to the SEC East even, where the expectation is to make it to Atlanta pretty quickly?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Same thing with Patterson at TCU.  His name gets mentioned every year with a major school vacancy.  But he's got no pressure there comparatively speaking.  He had a losing record last year but they weren't losing their minds wanting him fired (that I'm aware of).  Why would he come to the SEC East even, where the expectation is to make it to Atlanta pretty quickly?

Fuente's buyout at the end of this season is $6 million.  I would love to see him here, but I just don't see that happening.  Butch's buyout is going to be in the $7.5 million range, and another $2.5 million or so to buy out the staff.  Just don't see UT helping Fuente with his buyout after spending $10 million to make Butch go away.