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Author Topic: Let's say the most optimistic Vol tweeters are correct...  (Read 433 times)
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Black Diamond Vol
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« on: November 12, 2017, 10:31:01 EST »

...and Gruden is announced in the next couple days.

How crazy is Neyland going to be on Saturday?
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 10:46:20 EST »



 
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TheRealOrange
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 12:35:29 EST »

...and Gruden is announced in the next couple days.

How crazy is Neyland going to be on Saturday?

I like Gruden, but why is he so wanted?  Do NFL head coaches generally do well in college?  Also, while he won a Super Bowl as head coach, his overall record in the NFL was just 100–85 (.541). Outside of his SB season, he was 2-4 in the post season.  Yep, he would be a big name, splash hire, and that would clearly help in recruiting for at least a while, but I have never really understood the allure.
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HerbTarlekVol
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 12:45:27 EST »

I like Gruden, but why is he so wanted?  Do NFL head coaches generally do well in college?  Also, while he won a Super Bowl as head coach, his overall record in the NFL was just 100–85 (.541). Outside of his SB season, he was 2-4 in the post season.  Yep, he would be a big name, splash hire, and that would clearly help in recruiting for at least a while, but I have never really understood the allure.

To be fair, even the best NFL coaches don't generally have better than a .600 winning percentage.  Anything above that is considered outstanding.  Gruden's percentage is above average, and especially given that he took over a couple of teams who had struggled when he got there. 

I see two factors that make Gruden attractive:

1.  He has been the face of Monday Night Football for long enough that the generation of players who would be recruited over the next decade and their parents know him.  He's been in their home every week.  That visibility and recognition can get him in to virtually any living room of a prospect in the country.

2.  Ditto with assistant coach prospect.  He is well known, he has a super bowl ring, and he could put together a killer staff. 

Plus I will add another, he could flat out energize a deeply divided UT fan base.  He is a charismatic personality. 
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 12:49:36 EST »

I like Gruden, but why is he so wanted?  Do NFL head coaches generally do well in college?  Also, while he won a Super Bowl as head coach, his overall record in the NFL was just 100–85 (.541). Outside of his SB season, he was 2-4 in the post season.  Yep, he would be a big name, splash hire, and that would clearly help in recruiting for at least a while, but I have never really understood the allure.

I would attempt to answer the question by asking one...Why do NFL teams pursue him fairly often still?  One would deduce that this is because he's viewed as someone desirable to be their coach.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colts-owner-jim-irsay-reportedly-pursued-jon-gruden-for-head-coaching-job/



The NFL to College transition is somewhat uncharted territory because, well how many times do we see it?  NFL is seen as "the next step" for college coaches so there's not really a lot of data there off the top of my head.  But if TN could land the guy who NFL teams court, just on that basis, you don't see the allure here?

Why has ESPN done 8 seasons of Jon Gruden QB camp with the guy?

I honestly can't understand why anyone wearing orange isn't giddy at the thought of JG as our coach.  
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 01:03:30 EST by VinnieVOL » Logged
VinnieVOL
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 12:53:16 EST »

To be fair, even the best NFL coaches don't generally have better than a .600 winning percentage.  Anything above that is considered outstanding.  Gruden's percentage is above average, and especially given that he took over a couple of teams who had struggled when he got there. 

I see two factors that make Gruden attractive:

1.  He has been the face of Monday Night Football for long enough that the generation of players who would be recruited over the next decade and their parents know him.  He's been in their home every week.  That visibility and recognition can get him in to virtually any living room of a prospect in the country.

2.  Ditto with assistant coach prospect.  He is well known, he has a super bowl ring, and he could put together a killer staff. 

Plus I will add another, he could flat out energize a deeply divided UT fan base.  He is a charismatic personality. 

This... And I would imagine winning a SB is a pretty significant thing to do.

He's got an impressive coaching tree, and he also "gets" Tennessee.  The job would certainly not be too big for him, unlike our past 10 years worth of coaches.
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TheRealOrange
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 01:10:44 EST »

I would attempt to answer the question by asking one...Why do NFL teams pursue him fairly often still?  One would deduce that this is because he's viewed as someone desirable to be their coach.

The NFL to College transition is somewhat uncharted territory because, well how many times do we see it?  NFL is seen as "the next step" for college coaches so there's not really a lot of data there off the top of my head.  But if TN could land the guy who NFL teams court, just on that basis, you don't see the allure here?

Why has ESPN done 8 seasons of Jon Gruden QB camp with the guy?

I honestly can't understand why anyone wearing orange isn't giddy at the thought of JG as our coach.  

Sorry, I'm not giddy at the thought in the least and don't see why I would be. I understand the NFL thing; heck, they retread head coaches all the time.  I also understand the name impact on recruiting, especially in the short term.  I'm just not that impressed.  If he's hired, I'll be behind him 100 percent and hope he's a home run hire, as I always do.  Giddy?  Nope.
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 01:20:44 EST »

Sorry, I'm not giddy at the thought in the least and don't see why I would be. I understand the NFL thing; heck, they retread head coaches all the time.  I also understand the name impact on recruiting, especially in the short term.  I'm just not that impressed.  If he's hired, I'll be behind him 100 percent and hope he's a home run hire, as I always do.  Giddy?  Nope.

Fair enough.  Who would you be giddy about?
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BanditVol
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 01:26:31 EST »

Pete Carroll is a good example of a coach who flamed out in the NFL but then had a great run at SoCal.  And Gruden succeeded in the NFL...on his first try.   

I give him all kinds of credit for reviving the moribund Raiders in spite of Al Davis, I'm less impressed that he inherited a near Super Bowl winner in Tampa and improved it just enough to win.

TRO, I wouldn't be giddy either, but to me the recruiting success is almost guaranteed (and yet, there are those who question this in particular  ).  In this day and age, that's mostly what you need.  I also think his game day skills translate well to college.

In short, he may not be the home run some think, but we could do far, far worse. At the very least, Gruden >>>> Butch Jones.   
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TheRealOrange
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 01:26:43 EST »

To be fair, even the best NFL coaches don't generally have better than a .600 winning percentage.  Anything above that is considered outstanding.  Gruden's percentage is above average, and especially given that he took over a couple of teams who had struggled when he got there. 

I see two factors that make Gruden attractive:

1.  He has been the face of Monday Night Football for long enough that the generation of players who would be recruited over the next decade and their parents know him.  He's been in their home every week.  That visibility and recognition can get him in to virtually any living room of a prospect in the country.

2.  Ditto with assistant coach prospect.  He is well known, he has a super bowl ring, and he could put together a killer staff. 

Plus I will add another, he could flat out energize a deeply divided UT fan base.  He is a charismatic personality. 

Averaging 9-7 seasons is .562, so I'm not buying that. He took a Tampa Bay team that went 9-7 in 2001 and went 12-4 in 2002, and won the SB.  After that, his TB teams went 45-51 from 2003 through 2008.  Just like one hit wonder SB quarterbacks, there can be one hit wonder SB head coaches. Again, I like Coach Gruden, but I think the giddy fanboy "thought" is based on an inflated view of his actual head coaching accomplishments.
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 01:32:13 EST »

Pete Carroll is a good example of a coach who flamed out in the NFL but then had a great run at SoCal.  And Gruden succeeded in the NFL...on his first try.   

I give him all kinds of credit for reviving the moribund Raiders in spite of Al Davis, I'm less impressed that he inherited a near Super Bowl winner in Tampa and improved it just enough to win.

TRO, I wouldn't be giddy either, but to me the recruiting success is almost guaranteed (and yet, there are those who question this in particular  ).  In this day and age, that's mostly what you need.  I also think his game day skills translate well to college.

In short, he may not be the home run some think, but we could do far, far worse. At the very least, Gruden >>>> Butch Jones.   

I think he would be a good hire, and clearly the Vols could do worse.  But, at what cost?  Don't mind me.  I guess I should just view everything through orange colored glasses and accept the next hire at any cost.  I must have forgotten my place.
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 01:39:51 EST »

I think he would be a good hire, and clearly the Vols could do worse.  But, at what cost?  Don't mind me.  I guess I should just view everything through orange colored glasses and accept the next hire at any cost.  I must have forgotten my place.

Gruden is not my first choice but I can't really say who is. I think the initial splash would be great. But whether or not he would be as successful as many think he would be, I don't know. I think the most important thing would be who he hired for his staff.  I will say this: The Gruden hire would certainly energize most of the UT fan base. How long that would last would be up to him.

One note: I read today that Gruden would be coaching in Tennessee next year. For the Titans. 
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TheRealOrange
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 01:41:22 EST »

Pete Carroll is a good example of a coach who flamed out in the NFL but then had a great run at SoCal.  And Gruden succeeded in the NFL...on his first try.   

Pete Carroll has a better overall NFL winning percentage than Gruden, and a Super Bowl win.  Even his winning percentage with NE was higher, prior to going to USC.  Hardly a flame out.  His lone NFL flop was the Jets, one season at .375.  Gruden went 4-12, .250, at TB in 2006.  I'm just saying that people need to view his accomplishments realistically.
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 01:42:31 EST »

Gruden is not my first choice but I can't really say who is. I think the initial splash would be great. But whether or not he would be as successful as many think he would be, I don't know. I think the most important thing would be who he hired for his staff.  I will say this: The Gruden hire would certainly energize most of the UT fan base. How long that would last would be up to him.

One note: I read today that Gruden would be coaching in Tennessee next year. For the Titans. 

I agree.  Well, except for that last part. 
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 02:02:34 EST »

The Gruden hire would, if nothing else, show a solid commitment from the university toward getting the program back to where we all want it to be.

btw, I'm all in favor of Gruden to UT. I would hope that he could attract a killer staff and high level recruits.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:04:28 EST by JeffCountyVolFan » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 02:06:12 EST »

Addendum: It could also indicate that the academic requirements for these athletes would be relaxed enough for the playing field to be level with other SEC schools that we compete against.
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 02:12:46 EST »

Addendum: It could also indicate that the academic requirements for these athletes would be relaxed enough for the playing field to be level with other SEC schools that we compete against.

Even if we don't get Gruden, this would be a big deal.
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 02:23:52 EST »

He won with Rich Gannon at Oakland and won a Super Bowl with Brad Johnson.   In the NFL,  you play with what the owner will pay.   I would guess that he might recruit top QB talent.   QB is not everything,  but it sure makes everything easier.
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murfvol
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 02:55:38 EST »

Gruden would be in my top 10, but he's less of a sure thing in college than Leach.
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 03:16:15 EST »

Sorry, I'm not giddy at the thought in the least and don't see why I would be. I understand the NFL thing; heck, they retread head coaches all the time.  I also understand the name impact on recruiting, especially in the short term.  I'm just not that impressed.  If he's hired, I'll be behind him 100 percent and hope he's a home run hire, as I always do.  Giddy?  Nope.
This!!  I still don't comprehend this infatuation with him... but will support the new coach 100% and see where we end up!

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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2017, 06:34:03 EST »

Pete Carroll has a better overall NFL winning percentage than Gruden, and a Super Bowl win.  Even his winning percentage with NE was higher, prior to going to USC.  Hardly a flame out.  His lone NFL flop was the Jets, one season at .375.  Gruden went 4-12, .250, at TB in 2006.  I'm just saying that people need to view his accomplishments realistically.

Yes, but he won the Super Bowl after So Cal.  I'm only talking about his experience prior to returning to college coaching.

Maybe he did have a good win percentage at NE, but he never sniffed a Super Bowl there.  

Anyway, just making a point that Carroll, winning percentage at NE aside, was not considered a huge success in the  NFL prior to going to So Cal, while Gruden is widely considered a highly successful NFL coach.  I admit I have always thought he got more credit for the Tampa Bay win than he deserved, as Dungy really built that team.  

But his success in Oakland while dealing with a bat-shizzle crazy owner does impress me.  
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2017, 06:35:14 EST »

Addendum: It could also indicate that the academic requirements for these athletes would be relaxed enough for the playing field to be level with other SEC schools that we compete against.

I keep hearing things like this.  Are you saying Tennessee has a higher academic standard than other SEC schools, including Vandy?  That would be news to me.   
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2017, 06:40:41 EST »

I think he would be a good hire, and clearly the Vols could do worse.  But, at what cost?  Don't mind me.  I guess I should just view everything through orange colored glasses and accept the next hire at any cost.  I must have forgotten my place.

Well if you are factoring money into it, I do think college coaches are paid way too much.  And for those always saying "the big money donors need to open up their wallets", I posted a question on VN last week asking how many would be willing to put up $1000 each to pay the $2.5 million it would have cost to fire Jones in September.  I got no takers. 

$1000 would be the same percentage of net worth of a person worth 100K as that of someone worth $250 million to pay $2.5 million. 

I say those wanting the AD to open up the wallet can also contribute.  I'll be honest, although i give to the University on the academic side, I have never contributed a dime to the AD and although I have bought many tickets, I rarely even buy them directly from the AD. 

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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2017, 01:39:51 EST »

I keep hearing things like this.  Are you saying Tennessee has a higher academic standard than other SEC schools, including Vandy?  That would be news to me.   

First of all, I'm no expert and won't pretend to be.  I don't know all of the specifics concerning academics and how it pertains to athletics at UT and other SEC schools.

Having said that, I've heard for years about instances where UT cannot get certain student athletes admitted due to academic concerns.  Meanwhile, other SEC schools that we are competing against, having less stringent standards, can recruit those same athletes.  Now is this accurate?  I confess to not knowing that for fact.  If not accurate, I will admit to my ignorance on the issue and will own up to using information gathered from the internet and print resources to discuss a topic of which I have no direct knowledge.  Bon Jour!  I do know that even as recently as the MITBeaver bruhaha, higher academic standards for athletes at UT were discussed as being an issue to keeping us competitive.

Lastly, I don't want the football team at UT to be like Vandy.  I want it to be MUCH better than Vandy, so comparisons with them is irrelevant to me in this discussion.

Have a great day!
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BanditVol
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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2017, 03:00:56 EST »

First of all, I'm no expert and won't pretend to be.  I don't know all of the specifics concerning academics and how it pertains to athletics at UT and other SEC schools.

Having said that, I've heard for years about instances where UT cannot get certain student athletes admitted due to academic concerns.  Meanwhile, other SEC schools that we are competing against, having less stringent standards, can recruit those same athletes.  Now is this accurate?  I confess to not knowing that for fact.  If not accurate, I will admit to my ignorance on the issue and will own up to using information gathered from the internet and print resources to discuss a topic of which I have no direct knowledge.  Bon Jour!  I do know that even as recently as the MITBeaver bruhaha, higher academic standards for athletes at UT were discussed as being an issue to keeping us competitive.

Lastly, I don't want the football team at UT to be like Vandy.  I want it to be MUCH better than Vandy, so comparisons with them is irrelevant to me in this discussion.

Have a great day!

Understood, thanks for the response. 

I just recall this being a big point of discussion a few years ago, and my recollection, which can be spotty, is that someone dug into it and it turns out that UT doesn't have any academic policies more stringent than other SEC schools.

I do know that when Butch took over, we were on the verge of losing scholarships because too many players had GPAs below that required by the NCAA.  It may be that during those times the admin rejected a few partial qualifiers to avoid probation, IDK.

I don't think there are any issues now though.
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