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Author Topic: One thing is for certain, the next coach better be an extrordinary recruiter.  (Read 329 times)
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volsboy
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« on: November 14, 2017, 07:47:52 EST »

Jones was a supposedly good recruiter and he still didn't get close to getting the talent Bama has. He did well, but well is not nearly good enough in the SEC. Saban has gotten a lot of coaches who are "good" recruiters fired. Then after having to recruit at the highest level, you have to be able to "coach them up". Makes you wonder why anyone would dare coach in this league. Bottom line is that Jones wasted a lot of talent. Good luck to the next coach.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 12:06:49 EST »

Disagree on the talent level, while not bama, definitely enough talent to be competitive, and to give anyone a fit on a good day.  It is coaching, period, end of story.  Witness the SEC teams that have beaten bama since we have.  All of them were less talented than bama, majority were less talented than us.  Coaching.

Jones was a supposedly good recruiter and he still didn't get close to getting the talent Bama has. He did well, but well is not nearly good enough in the SEC. Saban has gotten a lot of coaches who are "good" recruiters fired. Then after having to recruit at the highest level, you have to be able to "coach them up". Makes you wonder why anyone would dare coach in this league. Bottom line is that Jones wasted a lot of talent. Good luck to the next coach.
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73Volgrad
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 12:17:05 EST »

The teams that beat Bama do it because the QBs and WRS make plays to score and keep the ball away for Bama. They beat them using skill players and a good (not spectacular) defenses. QB has to be mobile to avoid rush. Team discipline to avoid penalties and mental errors also needed. No team (except maybe Clemson) out talented them.

Bama just does not beat themselves with unforced errors.
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volsboy
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 12:28:18 EST »

None of them have the talent to beat Bama consistently. Yet we are going after unproven coaches that have beaten a good team once, while losing to lesser teams i.e. Campbell. I don't think our talent was as good as you think, overall. Where is it now? Last year, if the talent was there, even after injuries, UT should out-talent Vandy and USCe and win those games in spite of Butch.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:34:16 EST by volsboy » Logged

volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 01:12:53 EST »

None of them have the talent to beat Bama consistently. Yet we are going after unproven coaches that have beaten a good team once, while losing to lesser teams i.e. McDonald. I don't think our talent was as good as you think, overall. Where is it now? Last year, if the talent was there, even after injuries, UT should out-talent Vandy and USCe and win those games in spite of Butch.

Again...first of all, who says we are going after unproven coaches?  No one actually has any clue what Christie is doing.  The great majority of posters on VQ or VN are trolls, and those with real knowledge only know tidbits that aren't even worth looking for. 

Second...who decides what "unproven" means?  Do you have some Webster or "according to Hoyle" text book definition you can spring on us? 

Third...and this is the "again" part.  Here you are being negative yet again, and you have zero knowledge of what Christie is doing or thinking.  Notice you don't offer ideas or even candidates, just shizzle all over what's going on at the moment. 

I have yet to see you offer your favorite candidate for coach.  Who is it?  Just curious if you even have one. 
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volsboy
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 01:31:19 EST »

What part of my post is negative. How many titles have the unproven coaches won? I use Campbell as an example. He beat Ou this year. He lost to WVU. What does that prove? Of course folks jump the gun a say well  he should go to UT. Why don't we wait and see if he can beat OU again next year without losing to lower ranked teams before we anoint him the next Rockne. I said in anothe post i would be okay with Stoops. He's a good game coach, a good recruiter and can beat Bama occasionally. Gruden would be okay too.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:36:17 EST by volsboy » Logged

volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 01:53:57 EST »

We need corners....we need linebackers...we need defensive ends and more depth at DT to get where the defense needs to be.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 03:19:18 EST »

What part of my post is negative. How many titles have the unproven coaches won? I use McDonald as an example. He beat Ou this year. He lost to WVU. What does that prove? Of course folks jump the gun a say well  he should go to UT. Why don't we wait and see if he can beat OU again next year without losing to lower ranked teams before we anoint him the next Rockne. I said in anothe post i would be okay with Stoops. He's a good game coach, a good recruiter and can beat Bama occasionally. Gruden would be okay too.

Who the hell is McDonald?  No one named McDonald has beaten OU this season.   

Stoops isn't coming back to coaching and Gruden is highly unlikely to coach college football.  I don't think either of them will ever coach another down of college football.

What realistic coach is your choice?  Do you even have one, or do you just want to shizzle all over whoever we do hire? 

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volsboy
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 04:31:36 EST »

Who the hell is McDonald?  No one named McDonald has beaten OU this season.   

Stoops isn't coming back to coaching and Gruden is highly unlikely to coach college football.  I don't think either of them will ever coach another down of college football.

What realistic coach is your choice?  Do you even have one, or do you just want to shizzle all over whoever we do hire? 


My bad, I don't know why I had McDonald in my head. I meant Campbell at ISU. He is my example of unproven.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 06:20:52 EST »

Been reported that Campbell has a 9 million buyout.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 10:42:56 EST »

Been reported that Campbell has a 9 million buyout.

Yes.  And he currently makes $2.1 million a year.  So pay him $5.1 million a year (total compensation, not base salary) and he is making $1 million a year more than he is now.  Easy.  And you could add incentives to reward him if, say, he wins the SEC after three years, etc.

I don't think it's that big a barrier.

Fuentes buyout is $15 million.  I don't see any way around that.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 10:44:48 EST »

My bad, I don't know why I had McDonald in my head. I meant Campbell at ISU. He is my example of unproven.

Who is acceptable to your very high standards other than pipe dream candidates Gruden and Stoops.  I can almost guarantee we won't get them, I don't think either of them wants it.

So who does that leave?
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volsboy
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 12:59:40 EST »

They can spend 340 mil on stadium updates, seems to me they can open the checkbook and hire an established P5 coach. Need to have a competitive product to get folks to fill the stadium. Go big or stay on the porch with B. Jones type coach.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 04:26:42 EST »

They can spend 340 mil on stadium updates, seems to me they can open the checkbook and hire an established P5 coach. Need to have a competitive product to get folks to fill the stadium. Go big or stay on the porch with B. Jones type coach.

Yet...you have no clue who to hire apparently.   

This has been going on for years dating back to the Jones hiring.  Who to hire that is the guranteed championship guy.  There are a handful of proven ones.  Meyer, Saban, Dabo, maybe Fisher.  Upcoming are Petersen and Harbaugh. Other than that...no one.

That you would even mentions Stoops is funny.  Why would he come to UT after leaving OU?  He won't.

Who else is a "proven P5 coach?".  Bielema did well at Wisconsin.  Do you want him?  Franklin is doing well so far.  He wont' come.  Smart?  He'll stay at uga and it's only his first successful year.  Malzahn won't leave Auburn. Richt won't leave Miami. Should we borrow a page from Arkansas and hire the current Wiscsonsin coach?  Is he proven enough?

Gruden isn't coming either.  And BTW, he's not a proven P5 coach by any stretch.

So...who is your "proven P5 coach"?   

It' isn't easy is it?  Easy to be a whiner though.  Holy shizzle.

I'll help you out.  The only coach I think we can get in your category is Les Miles.  Now tell us why you don't like him.   

I'll tell you why I don't.  Several reasons.
 
1. He often makes strange game time decisions and is generally just kind of whacy.  They often seem to pay off, but...
2. He won an NC with a program that saban built, then declined.  And he had two losses in the year he won it so needed a lot of help.
3. Hr runs a stone age offense that limited LSU in the last several years and won't compromise on that.
4. He was LSUs coach, less likely to succeed at UT.  For one he won't have the recruting he had in Lousiana, the 6th best state in the country and also very near Texas and not far from Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama.
5.  The absolute cluster fizzle of the 2011 NC game.  Worst coaching job I have seen at the high end of D1, period.  In fact, this reason pretty much out weighs all the others combined.  I think he was high or drunk that night.

we could probably do worse than Miles, but I don't want him.  You might though.  He certainly meets your criteria.   
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volsboy
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 07:41:23 EST »

Yet...you have no clue who to hire apparently.   

This has been going on for years dating back to the Jones hiring.  Who to hire that is the guranteed championship guy.  There are a handful of proven ones.  Meyer, Saban, Dabo, maybe Fisher.  Upcoming are Petersen and Harbaugh. Other than that...no one.

That you would even mentions Stoops is funny.  Why would he come to UT after leaving OU?  He won't.

Who else is a "proven P5 coach?".  Bielema did well at Wisconsin.  Do you want him?  Franklin is doing well so far.  He wont' come.  Smart?  He'll stay at uga and it's only his first successful year.  Malzahn won't leave Auburn. Richt won't leave Miami. Should we borrow a page from Arkansas and hire the current Wiscsonsin coach?  Is he proven enough?

Gruden isn't coming either.  And BTW, he's not a proven P5 coach by any stretch.

So...who is your "proven P5 coach"?   

It' isn't easy is it?  Easy to be a whiner though.  Holy shizzle.

I'll help you out.  The only coach I think we can get in your category is Les Miles.  Now tell us why you don't like him.   

I'll tell you why I don't.  Several reasons.
 
1. He often makes strange game time decisions and is generally just kind of whacy.  They often seem to pay off, but...
2. He won an NC with a program that saban built, then declined.  And he had two losses in the year he won it so needed a lot of help.
3. Hr runs a stone age offense that limited LSU in the last several years and won't compromise on that.
4. He was LSUs coach, less likely to succeed at UT.  For one he won't have the recruting he had in Lousiana, the 6th best state in the country and also very near Texas and not far from Florida, Mississippi, and Alabama.
5.  The absolute cluster fizzle of the 2011 NC game.  Worst coaching job I have seen at the high end of D1, period.  In fact, this reason pretty much out weighs all the others combined.  I think he was high or drunk that night.

we could probably do worse than Miles, but I don't want him.  You might though.  He certainly meets your criteria.   
I don't want Miles either. He wasted more talent than Jones plus also had the same prevent offense Jones implemented. Why can't the Vols open the wallet and go after a Dabo, Fisher, Peterson, Carrol, or that type of proven coach? If they turn us down, then you obviously have to go the unproven coach route.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 12:32:19 EST »

I don't recall Bama going after MAC level coaches when they hired Saban. They opened the check book and did what it took to hire him. Guess that escapes the realm of possibility of those in charge at UT. Wanna play gotta pay.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 01:55:27 EST »

I don't recall Bama going after MAC level coaches when they hired Saban. They opened the check book and did what it took to hire him. Guess that escapes the realm of possibility of those in charge at UT. Wanna play gotta pay.

Yes they did.  And saban worked out.  That doesn't happen every time!   It doesn't happen whether you open your wallet or not.  You have to have a guy to open the wallet for!


So again...who is that?  Who is out there, other than Gruden or Stoops, that you find worthy?  Or do you think paying Jones or Miles $10 M a year will work just because you pay them a lot?   



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BanditVol
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 01:56:07 EST »

Hey...what about Fulmer!  He won an MNC, and made many bowls that are now called N6, and also a couple SEC championships.  
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 02:04:25 EST by BanditVol » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 02:00:08 EST »

One more thing on bammer.  As I repeat endlessly, they didn't just hire Saban.

  I've lived in bammer close to 25 years, and I know many bammer fans.  I knew one of the biggest members of Tide Pride back in the 90s, who has since passed away (big local real estate guy) but to this day I know multiple die hard season ticket holders and folks that follow every single move by the bammer AD.  For instance, a former bammer player goes to my church.  Etc.

And here is what they were saying in 2007 when Saban was hired.  They were sick of losing and bammer was finally free of probation.  however, they  still had a huge payoff to Shula and I think DuBose's payoff had earlier depleted their AD coffers (the payouts to Dubose may have even overlapped a bit, I cant' recall completely).  What I was told was that several prominent bammer alumni led by Bear Bryant junior built a huge "war chest" of about $30 million.  They used to this to pay off Shula, give the AD some breathing room, and pay the huge hiring salary of saban.  They then directed a good deal of it to facilities. 

Even after doing all that, there were many millions left.  And...hmmm....wonder what they did with all that cash?  My bammer friends won't comment, and have amnesia whenever I ask about the "war chest".  I can put two and two together, and anyone who has followed my frequent bammer recruiting rants knows what I mean.

so in addition to hiring a saban, if one exists, you have to also build a recruiting machine that from what i have gleaned includes dirty car dealerships, AD "compliance" staff, payouts to HS coaches, hiring of relatives of players, direct payments to players, multiple extra benefits to players such as clothes and free babysitting, and ensuring that the SEC office consistently looks the other way.   And you have to have a lot of bammer alum state officials that are keeping an eye out also.

Do all that, and you two can be a complete a=hole but somehow lead the country in recruitign every year.   
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