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Author Topic: I was surprised to see our overall bowl record is 28-24.  (Read 5211 times)
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volsboy
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« on: November 15, 2017, 11:35:35 EST »

Maybe expecting to compete for an SEC title every year is expecting too much. Maybe the 90's gave us unrealistic expectations. It's still what I expect though.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 11:39:04 EST »

We did compete for the SEC East the last two years.  We fell just short in 2015, should definitely have won it last year.

We were much closer than you seem to realize.   
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volsboy
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 12:53:06 EST »

That was fools gold. East was a dumpster fire. No excuse for not winning it. Just be glad we aren't in the West.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 03:52:21 EST »

??????????

First of all, bowl games have nothing to do with winning a conference championship.  At.  All.

Second, you do realize that by definition, anything above a .500 bowl record is pretty good, right?  In general, bowls match up teams of similar quality and similar resumes.  So again, by definition, most teams are going to lose bowl games about as often as they win.

Do you even watch football?
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LouisVOL
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 03:18:03 EST »

Butch had a great bowl record.  Maybe  we should just keep him.   
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73Volgrad
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 04:24:58 EST »

I do not think anyone but the most delusional fan expects to compete for the championship every year. I think the majority of fans want a competitive team that wins big games and is not blown out year after year. I think fans expect teams that can compete with Top 10 teams and that win occasionally against Top 25. Kiffiin teams at least competed. Dooley teams were noncompetitive. It took Butch teams two years to win, but he was still not competitive. Trolls keep attacking UT for wanting to fire coaches if they do not win a title. Fans want a coach that can actually make players improve their skills, play as a team, and have a real chance to win. Butch recruited well, but ran the best off by his abrasive personality.

Five years is long enough to show improvement. It was obvious last year Butch was not an SEC top notch coach. If he was, he would have won. IMO player injuries for the most part are directly linked to his inexplicable S&C coach decisions.
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Coupe De VOL
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 05:27:15 EST »

Butch had a great bowl record.  Maybe  we should just keep him.   

That is one feather in Bujo's cap - he did indeed have a great bowl record, and, in general, had the team playing well for the bowl games.  I will give credit where credit is due.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 07:23:16 EST »

I do not think anyone but the most delusional fan expects to compete for the championship every year. I think the majority of fans want a competitive team that wins big games and is not blown out year after year. I think fans expect teams that can compete with Top 10 teams and that win occasionally against Top 25. Kiffiin teams at least competed. Dooley teams were noncompetitive. It took Butch teams two years to win, but he was still not competitive. Trolls keep attacking UT for wanting to fire coaches if they do not win a title. Fans want a coach that can actually make players improve their skills, play as a team, and have a real chance to win. Butch recruited well, but ran the best off by his abrasive personality.

Five years is long enough to show improvement. It was obvious last year Butch was not an SEC top notch coach. If he was, he would have won. IMO player injuries for the most part are directly linked to his inexplicable S&C coach decisions.

This is a much more nuanced and better stance than some.  I do quibble that Kiffin was consistently competitive.  He was only 7-6, and we got blown out in the bowl and also by a very mediocre Ole Miss team that year.  Further we IMO should have beaten UCLA and Auburn that year.  We did give bammer a scare and beat the pants off uga, so credit where credit is due, Kiffin had a couple nice moments but he also blew it in other games IMO.  It's common to hear how much better we were with Kiffin.  I don't buy it.  We went from a 5-7 year where if Hamilton had waited a week to fire Fulmer we would have beaten Wyoming and made a bowl game, and likely matched Kiffin's 7-6 record.  I also give Kiffin enormous credit for improving Crompton and don't know how we would have fared with Fulmer in 2009 with Crompton still the QB, but I do know this...I didn't see enough from Kiffin in his one year to justify jettisoning a 0.670 percent winning coach with an NC.   

Agree with all else, but I will add one more thing.  Hands down, Butch was competitive at times.  The uga game his first year comes to mind.  The fight and (in retrospect suprising) gutsy play calling in that game had not been seen ... well, AT ALL...in the Dooley era.  And later that year, when we beat the 11th ranked USC jr team and started SOS on his path to oblivion, that too was competetive.  The uga and uf games last year were competitive.

Let me slighlty amend what you say to "Jones was not competitive enough or as consistently as he should have been".

Other than those two nits, we agree well.

And I know I went down a rabbit hole on Kiffin not related to the main topic, but you struck a nerve.     I get tired of hearing how great Kiffin was.  I was not impressed.

And in before anyone can say it...I do think Kiffin would have been more consistently competitive than Butch, but at a great price (major sanctions, constant embarrassment, and continuing inconsistency).
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volsboy
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 07:29:16 EST »

??????????

First of all, bowl games have nothing to do with winning a conference championship.  At.  All.

Second, you do realize that by definition, anything above a .500 bowl record is pretty good, right?  In general, bowls match up teams of similar quality and similar resumes.  So again, by definition, most teams are going to lose bowl games about as often as they win.

Do you even watch football?
I'm sorry but my definition of competeing is doing better than the Outback or Music City Bowl.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 07:36:36 EST »

I'm sorry but my definition of competeing is doing better than the Outback or Music City Bowl.

Exactly.  Completely delusional. 

I agree that should not be the ceiling, but every single school in the SEC has actually done worse than that for at least one season in the last 5 years.  And the one that didn't is only able to achieve that by cheating it's sorry scumbag POS ass off.

You appear to be of the opinion that UT should never go that low in any given season.  Delusional.   
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volsboy
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 01:09:11 EST »

That's not delusional, it's what should be expected. I think a school with all the fiscal advantages UT has should expect a NY6 bowl at least once every four years. That would give all the recruits a chance to play in one before graduation. That should be the goal. Even if you just miss it, you've still had a good year. 
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 01:41:57 EST »

That's not delusional, it's what should be expected. I think a school with all the fiscal advantages UT has should expect a NY6 bowl at least once every four years. That would give all the recruits a chance to play in one before graduation. That should be the goal. Even if you just miss it, you've still had a good year. 

That's fine, and I actually agree.  But based on most stuff you post, you expect us to be in the playoffs every single year. 

Butch fell just short of your goal, whether you admit it or not.  I say that not to defend him.  As I say elsewhere, I'm never about who the coach is.  But I am saying that we were two close losses away last year from N6, to be sure.  And without all the injuries, maybe even Jones could have done it.
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volsboy
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 12:16:56 EST »

That's fine, and I actually agree.  But based on most stuff you post, you expect us to be in the playoffs every single year.  

Butch fell just short of your goal, whether you admit it or not.  I say that not to defend him.  As I say elsewhere, I'm never about who the coach is.  But I am saying that we were two close losses away last year from N6, to be sure.  And without all the injuries, maybe even Jones could have done it.
Then why are we looking for a new coach? It was more than just bad luck and injuries. What was his excuse for this years sorry performance? There is no reason UT shouldn't be in the race for the SECe every year. UF and UGa are the ones to beat 99% of the time. We shouldn't ever have trouble beating Vany, KY, Mizzou. S.Carolina is only good sporadically. He was a terrible game day coach who would need Bama type talent to win. I hope the next coach can coach AND recruit. I think I look too much at the business/employee side of. I just think a coach that makes 4-5m a year should do better than the Music City Bowl.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 03:07:19 EST »

Then why are we looking for a new coach? It was more than just bad luck and injuries. What was his excuse for this years sorry performance? There is no reason UT shouldn't be in the race for the SECe every year. UF and UGa are the ones to beat 99% of the time. We shouldn't ever have trouble beating Vany, KY, Mizzou. S.Carolina is only good sporadically. He was a terrible game day coach who would need Bama type talent to win. I hope the next coach can coach AND recruit. I think I look too much at the business/employee side of. I just think a coach that makes 4-5m a year should do better than the Music City Bowl.

This isn't about Butch anymore. It's about you constantly poor mouthing and taking the most negative slant on the Vols you possibly can.

And I'm claiming I don't believe you when you say you would be happy with an N6 Bowl.  You'd still find something to bitch about.

I'm not sure you would be happy winning the SEC and making the playoffs, frankly, or even if we did you'd shizzle all over the coach next season for every slight mistep.
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volsboy
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 06:24:05 EST »

It's just that if the Vols go after and do not get a high profile guy and "settle" for the next guy, Vol Nation will be pissed off and it will set the tone for the next coach's tenure. Kinda like Jones tenure.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 08:09:04 EST »

It's just that if the Vols go after and do not get a high profile guy and "settle" for the next guy, Vol Nation will be pissed off and it will set the tone for the next coach's tenure. Kinda like Jones tenure.

You still haven't identified a realistic "high level" guy to go after.  No amount of money in the world is going to help if the just doesn't exist.

Try being constructive for just once. 
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"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.”  G. Patton
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