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Author Topic: The smartest thing that Phil did today  (Read 575 times)
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ReVOLver
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« on: December 01, 2017, 10:47:49 EST »

was to shut down the possibility of him ever coaching immediately and swiftly, with finality.

The second best thing he did was let it be known that Tennessee fans deserve to expect to compete at the highest level of college football and to win championships. Lane had that mentality, but nobody else in that department or coaching office believed that since Phil was ushered out the door. That's a problem, and that's why we are where we are today.
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RockinGrannyVol
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 10:57:25 EST »

I loved what he had to say.... so hoping he will hire the right man to bring us back!! 

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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 11:02:24 EST »

was to shut down the possibility of him ever coaching immediately and swiftly, with finality.

The second best thing he did was let it be known that Tennessee fans deserve to expect to compete at the highest level of college football and to win championships. Lane had that mentality, but nobody else in that department or coaching office believed that since Phil was ushered out the door. That's a problem, and that's why we are where we are today.

I also found it interesting that he said coaches who weren't interested before may be in play now.  Fulmer is obviously very respected among his peers, so maybe he will have a little more pull than Currie did.

I also read that he's not an interim AD, he's getting a two year deal.  Maybe that's just for stability purposes, so coaching candidates would know he's going to be in place for at least a little while.
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 11:09:08 EST »

Phil gets a chance to revive the "big fisherman" recruiting nickname.

I loved what he had to say.... so hoping he will hire the right man to bring us back!! 

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BanditVol
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 11:13:09 EST »

I also found it interesting that he said coaches who weren't interested before may be in play now. 

Could previously
Unavailable and
Talented
Ccoaches at
Least reconsider and show
Interest in
Fucking
Football
Excellence at Tennessee?

 


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FLVOL
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2017, 01:50:01 EST »

Phil gets a chance to revive the "big fisherman" recruiting nickname.


My thoughts exactly,  that light flipped on when he said that he was most definitely calling the prior commits to get them back on board 
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 03:36:16 EST »

I really got raked over the coals the last time Cut was discussed. I thought he was a good hire/keep. It was the fans who cut Cuts ties. He doesn't need the money enough to subject himself to that type of possible rejection again. Fickle fans want UT ties while at the same time riding a successful UT tie out on a rail. It's like us with Kiffin... Why open ourselves up to be punked again? Why would Cut open himself up to be punked again?
 
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 04:07:53 EST »

I really got raked over the coals the last time Cut was discussed. I thought he was a good hire/keep. It was the fans who cut Cuts ties. He doesn't need the money enough to subject himself to that type of possible rejection again. Fickle fans want UT ties while at the same time riding a successful UT tie out on a rail. It's like us with Kiffin... Why open ourselves up to be punked again? Why would Cut open himself up to be punked again?
 

Because he trusts Fulmer

He won't take it, but it won't be because he has been "punked"... Fulmer's presence nixes that. They are best friends. He won't take it because he is older and has no reason to leave Duke. Why take on the massive rebuilding job that is Tennessee, when he probably isn't young enough to see it all the way through?

Also I mentioned Kiffin in the OP only because whether we like him or not, Lane came here because he thought he could win a national championship. Everybody else associated with that program since Phil's departure (Hamilton, Dooley, Butch, Currie) didn't really think they could win big because they always privately (and sometimes publicly) pointed to the internal perception of Tennessee and the expectation of the fan base as unrealistic.

Mike Hamilton started the public slide when he fired Fulmer (yes I supported it) and then proceeded to tell the media that the Tennessee job didn't have the luster that fans thought it did. Whether that's true or not, you will NEVER hear Phillip Fulmer say that. He knows that the expectations at Tennessee is whatever the fans decide they should be.
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2017, 05:51:12 EST »

I really got raked over the coals the last time Cut was discussed. I thought he was a good hire/keep. It was the fans who cut Cuts ties. He doesn't need the money enough to subject himself to that type of possible rejection again. Fickle fans want UT ties while at the same time riding a successful UT tie out on a rail. It's like us with Kiffin... Why open ourselves up to be punked again? Why would Cut open himself up to be punked again?
 

I think the majority of fans, or at any rate the anti-Fulmer crowd, did not want Cut in 2009 or 2010.   Even I would say it would be unrealistic to bring back a close Fulmer associate in 2009.   But in 2010,l the story I heard was that Cut wouldn't consider it out of loyalty to Fulmer.  No way was he going to work for those who had just royally screwed his boss.  I think a lot of fans still didn't want him, but credible reports at the time say Cut was reached out to and rebuffed the offer. 
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 05:57:28 EST »

Because he trusts Fulmer

He won't take it, but it won't be because he has been "punked"... Fulmer's presence nixes that. They are best friends. He won't take it because he is older and has no reason to leave Duke. Why take on the massive rebuilding job that is Tennessee, when he probably isn't young enough to see it all the way through?

Also I mentioned Kiffin in the OP only because whether we like him or not, Lane came here because he thought he could win a national championship. Everybody else associated with that program since Phil's departure (Hamilton, Dooley, Butch, Currie) didn't really think they could win big because they always privately (and sometimes publicly) pointed to the internal perception of Tennessee and the expectation of the fan base as unrealistic.

Mike Hamilton started the public slide when he fired Fulmer (yes I supported it) and then proceeded to tell the media that the Tennessee job didn't have the luster that fans thought it did. Whether that's true or not, you will NEVER hear Phillip Fulmer say that. He knows that the expectations at Tennessee is whatever the fans decide they should be.

I never saw Dooley, Currie or Butch say publicly that they couldn't win big.  Never.  And I don't think they would.  And how would any of us know what they said privately?  I don't think this part matches reality too well.  In particular, although you could call him delusional, Butch Jones never would have said he could not win it all at Tennessee.   

Now, Butch did publicaly tout his record to much derision, and perhaps this is what you refer to.

I agree that Kiffin had more confidence and swagger than any of the above.  No question about that, although his sole 7-6 year did little to impress me.

One other thing....I'm not sure I would call this a "massive rebuilding effort".  I still say we are better off than 2012.  A very large rebuilding effort yes, but at least these players have more talent and a history of winning.  we had none of that in 2012.  I think a new coach could step in and at least have a winning season next year.

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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 08:02:54 EST »

I can't believe I'm going to defend Kiffin. Go figure. His record had a bunch of close misses that strongly indicated he was going to start the program in the right direction.
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 08:36:13 EST »

I can't believe I'm going to defend Kiffin. Go figure. His record had a bunch of close misses that strongly indicated he was going to start the program in the right direction.

We will have to agree to disagree.  I blame the UCLA, Auburn and Bama losses squarely on him, and the blowout sat Ole Miss and in the bowl games were inexcusable.

The team defintely improved from the previous year, but at the end of the day I think Fulmer could have gone 7-6 that year, and maybe even better.

Would Fulmer have ever beaten Saban or Urban?  We will never know, but I'd like to think so.

Kiffin also didn't impress me that much at So Cal or even bammer.

What I will say is that he is the best post-Fulmer coach so far.  Problem is, that ain't saying much.   
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 08:53:59 EST »

We will have to agree to disagree.  I blame the UCLA, Auburn and Bama losses squarely on him, and the blowout sat Ole Miss and in the bowl games were inexcusable.

The team defintely improved from the previous year, but at the end of the day I think Fulmer could have gone 7-6 that year, and maybe even better.

Would Fulmer have ever beaten Saban or Urban?  We will never know, but I'd like to think so.

Kiffin also didn't impress me that much at So Cal or even bammer.

What I will say is that he is the best post-Fulmer coach so far.  Problem is, that ain't saying much.  

I'd say that you're an outlier, because most any vol fan will begrudgingly admit that Kiffin is one hell of a coach
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 05:02:10 EST by FLVOL » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2017, 03:01:48 EST »

I never saw Dooley, Currie or Butch say publicly that they couldn't win big.  Never.  And I don't think they would.  And how would any of us know what they said privately?  I don't think this part matches reality too well.  In particular, although you could call him delusional, Butch Jones never would have said he could not win it all at Tennessee.  

Now, Butch did publicaly tout his record to much derision, and perhaps this is what you refer to.

I agree that Kiffin had more confidence and swagger than any of the above.  No question about that, although his sole 7-6 year did little to impress me.

One other thing....I'm not sure I would call this a "massive rebuilding effort".  I still say we are better off than 2012.  A very large rebuilding effort yes, but at least these players have more talent and a history of winning.  we had none of that in 2012.  I think a new coach could step in and at least have a winning season next year.



I clearly said that they pointed to the perception of the fan base as unrealistic. That could be with actions or words. I clearly did not say that they said that they could not win big. Not even Hamilton did that. You argue over some of the goofiest stuff.

Kiffin is a very good football coach who wasn't ready to be a head coach at the SEC level in 2009, and absolutely is ready now.

I will admit that "massive" is a touch too much.
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 03:42:37 EST »

I'd say that you're an outlier, because most any vol fan will begrudgingly admit that Kiffin is one hell of a coach

So why was he fired at So Cal?  Most I know think he's a great coordinator but not HC material.

I come back to ... what's so impressive about 7-6?  Nothing.

Close losses?  No such thing as a moral victory!  Dooley had many close losses in 2012.  Butch had three this year, for that matter, and numerous ones throughout his career at UT.
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2017, 04:23:39 EST »

So why was he fired at So Cal?  Most I know think he's a great coordinator but not HC material.

I come back to ... what's so impressive about 7-6?  Nothing.

Close losses?  No such thing as a moral victory!  Dooley had many close losses in 2012.  Butch had three this year, for that matter, and numerous ones throughout his career at UT.
IMO Kiffin is a darn good QB coach (he made Crompton look good & we have seen Hurst regress since he left) and a pretty good coordinator
His maturity level (or lack of it) has hindered his ability to be a HC IMO
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 04:39:17 EST »

So why was he fired at So Cal?  Most I know think he's a great coordinator but not HC material.
I don't know, I'm not a USC fan, nor a follower
I come back to ... what's so impressive about 7-6?  Nothing.
Considering what the team did the year before, it's very impressive
Close losses?  No such thing as a moral victory!  Dooley had many close losses in 2012.  Butch had three this year, for that matter, and numerous ones throughout his career at UT.
Make sure to throw out some boos to the team when they play well above the expectations and lose a close game to, say, Bama. No moral victories and such.........
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 05:55:11 EST »

I clearly said that they pointed to the perception of the fan base as unrealistic. That could be with actions or words. I clearly did not say that they said that they could not win big. Not even Hamilton did that. You argue over some of the goofiest stuff.

Kiffin is a very good football coach who wasn't ready to be a head coach at the SEC level in 2009, and absolutely is ready now.

I will admit that "massive" is a touch too much.

On the public comments item, your original statement was ambiguous to me.  No biggie, sounds like we are on the same page here.  And while I don't totally buy in to what any of those three said about fan expectations, there are some completely delusional fans in our base, no doubt.  Fans that think it's a snap to fire a proven coach and do better like you're rolling out of bed, for instance.

We can agree to disagree about how ready Kiffin is...I am still very unimpressed with his work at USC Senior, which many Vol fans seem unaware of. I have a good Vol buddy who lives in LA and passed me all kinds of dirt on Kiffin.  In fact, his son's HS teammate is the current backup QB at USC.  My buddy was very involved in local football and even met Pete Carroll a few times.

Anyway, opinions aside, my objection to Kiffin is not so much how good a coach he is as there is not anyway we can let someone who screwed us that badly and flirted with NCAA probation while he was here back in.   And let me add that he continues to mock us on twitter...how could we re-hire that guy?  And what if we offer and he very publicly turns us down?  No thank you.

If Kiffin is ready for the SEC, let Arkansas hire him.  UT will not.  I think Fulmer's comments in his presser about finding someone who loves and apprecitates UT were partly or even mostly directed at Kiffin.  And Fulmer would never hire the guy Hamilton/Haslem picked to replace him.

Kiffin is fools gold.  He is the single greatest salesman in the history of football, IMO.  How else to explain going to the NFL so young, getting the Tennessee job, getting the USC job, and even getting the OC spot at Alabama?
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 06:02:34 EST »

One point loss to an eventual NC team... I don't believe in moral victories but it's crazy to suggest not looking at game results when that is the criterion used to fire a coach.
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 07:38:56 EST »

One point loss to an eventual NC team... I don't believe in moral victories but it's crazy to suggest not looking at game results when that is the criterion used to fire a coach.

What about a 6 point loss to an NC team, a la Butch Jones in 2015?  It's one score either way.

Plus, you have to look at how the 2009 game was lost.

We had a kicker who couldn't hit shizzle outside of 40 yards and had already missed two 40-yarders THAT DAY.   He was also pretty accurate inside 40 yards,l and had hit a 37-yarder THAT DAY.

In spite of which, our genius coach chose to run the clock with 40 seconds left and settle for a 43-yarder, which was promptly blocked.  So what good is it if you play well enough to win, the make a stupid fizzleing decision at the end that costs the game?

IMO that meltdown is on par with Butch Jone's inability to call the right pass D against Florida this year.  If the HC doesn't know his FG kicker, he's a fizzleing moron. 

And if you want talk bama, Fulmer  beat bama 7 times in a row, more than any coach in history and his record against bama was 11-5 (I haven't checked, but I would bet that's also a record for coaches who faced them more than 5 times).    I know it was agaisnt Saban, but given the taletn level was still high in 2009, and the players still had a history of beating bama, and bama had not even won a NC yet and their talent level was lower, maybe just about any coach could have done the same thing.

Kiffin is an excellent salesman, so I guess it's no surprise many fans are buying his BS.
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 08:41:41 EST »

You're right we will have to agree to disagree. I don't know where you get the notion I'm buying anything the guy is selling. I hate the guy! Don't want him anywhere near Tennessee ever. But, I have to give him his due... I believe in telling the truth.
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