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Author Topic: Seriously, how is Tee any more risky than the names out there right now?  (Read 689 times)
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« on: December 05, 2017, 07:24:35 EST »

I'll hang up and listen.
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 10:22:05 EST »

Georgia Southern said thanks but no thanks. 

Love Tee, but there is just no way no how he should be the UT head coach at this point. 

Were he not a UT alum, would he even be contacted? 

And reports are that Fulmer has talked to him today, not necessarily about the head coaching job, but contact has been made. 
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 10:44:47 EST »

Georgia Southern said thanks but no thanks. 

Love Tee, but there is just no way no how he should be the UT head coach at this point. 

Were he not a UT alum, would he even be contacted? 

And reports are that Fulmer has talked to him today, not necessarily about the head coaching job, but contact has been made. 

Okay.  And what makes him so inferior to Steele, Pruitt, or Tucker?  How are those guys so much better?  Any of them would be on the hotseat with this fanbase from day one. Tee wouldn't.  I also feel reasonably sure that he would recruit circles around any of them.

I wanted an established guy, too.  But if we've truly reached the point where these are our main candidates, we're going to be taking a huge risk whomever we hire.  Might as well take a risk on one of our own (and I know that Steele is technically "one of our own", too- but we've seen what he could do as a HC, and the results were less than optimal).

At this point, I'm hoping against hope that the rumored "mystery candidate" is an actual thing, and we shock the world and roll out Petersen or someone of his ilk in the next couple days. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 11:01:01 EST »

Experience is the difference. Again, look at Venables background and experience; very impressive. I'm thinking with his prior success, he would make your team tougher the minute he walked on campus.


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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 11:09:32 EST »

Okay.  And what makes him so inferior to Steele, Pruitt, or Tucker?  How are those guys so much better?  Any of them would be on the hotseat with this fanbase from day one. Tee wouldn't.  I also feel reasonably sure that he would recruit circles around any of them.

I wanted an established guy, too.  But if we've truly reached the point where these are our main candidates, we're going to be taking a huge risk whomever we hire.  Might as well take a risk on one of our own (and I know that Steele is technically "one of our own", too- but we've seen what he could do as a HC, and the results were less than optimal).

At this point, I'm hoping against hope that the rumored "mystery candidate" is an actual thing, and we shock the world and roll out Petersen or someone of his ilk in the next couple days. 


Steele was a head coach at Baylor long before Baylor decided to become a player in college football and the McLane family (Baylor's Haslams) committed to fund the program to be competitive.  Nobody won at Baylor during that era until the McLanes opened their checkbooks. 

Tee has been an OC all of 2 years.  He doesn't have the administrative experience to be a head coach.  He just doesn't.  He can recruit his ass off, but day to day recruiting is not the primary responsibly of a head coach.  The head coach is the closer.  The assistants are the primary recruiters, and that's where Tee needs to be at this point.  A head coach needs to be a manager of the staff, and Tee just doesn't have any experience there. 

Like I said - Georgia Southern said no.  Do we really want to go to a guy whom Georgia Southern didn't want as our head coach right now?  Give him time to learn.  Don't throw him to the wolves right now.  If he flames out at his alma mater 3-4 years it wouldn't be a good thing.   He'll be much more ready to take the job in 3-5 years.
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 11:10:28 EST »

Experience is the difference. Again, look at Venables background and experience; very impressive. I'm thinking with his prior success, he would make your team tougher the minute he walked on campus.


BG

Love Venables, but he isn't leaving Clemson until after the playoffs, if he leaves then.  UT can't wait until mid-January.  The early signing period has completely changed the game. 
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 11:12:16 EST »

Experience is the difference. Again, look at Venables background and experience; very impressive. I'm thinking with his prior success, he would make your team tougher the minute he walked on campus.


BG

They've supposedly looked at Venables, and he told them no.  He's had MANY opportunities for HC jobs over the past couple decades, and turned them all down.  Sounds like he's happy to be a career assistant.
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 11:21:41 EST »

Well this has certainly been an embarrassing search. Every other team goes and seamlessly gets the first pick. Not only that but NOBODY hires our former coaches. It's shocking that UT doesn't have a few more desirable or gettable coaches in the pipeline. Just get it over with! 
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2017, 11:32:47 EST »

They've supposedly looked at Venables, and he told them no.  He's had MANY opportunities for HC jobs over the past couple decades, and turned them all down.  Sounds like he's happy to be a career assistant.

Thanks. I wondered what it is about him that has prevented him from getting a head coaching job. I did read this from Dobbs from couple of years ago. He said that maybe since he's a defensive coach rather than a current in vogue offensive one may have also hindered him in the past.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/brent-venables-is-overqualified-so-why-isnt-clemsons-defensive-boss-a-head-coach/

Regardless though, I still say Tee Martin has less than two years experience as a coordinator contrasted by many more years by the ones in question, and this is a difference.

That's not to say he isn't a better prospect for the position though. Note Dabo Swinney went from a wide receiver position coach to head coach. It's rare but possible. He too was/is a great recruiter like Martin.

Edited to add Venables' agent admittedly had been contacted about the Arkansas job. Perhaps he did turn that down as Morris has now been named to the job. Did some digging on the subject and according to one Clemson source, Venables is going to be very selective about taking a head coaching position.

BG

 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 12:28:07 EST by BGHarper » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2017, 11:35:05 EST »

Well this has certainly been an embarrassing search. Every other team goes and seamlessly gets the first pick. Not only that but NOBODY hires our former coaches. It's shocking that UT doesn't have a few more desirable or gettable coaches in the pipeline. Just get it over with! 

It's pretty obvious that the events of last Sunday are killing us here.  I still don't blame the fans- Schiano would've been a disaster, both on and off the field.  The blame falls squarely on Haslam/Currie for trying to ramrod him through without even talking to anyone else.  And those guys are now out of the picture.  But from the outside looking in, the perception is that the fans are insane.  No established coach is going to want to come deal with that.

I think it's time to just accept that we're about to make yet another underwhelming hire, and that we're going to be back here again in three years or so.  Hopefully we'll have Blackburn in place by then and we'll get that one right.
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 12:33:48 EST »

Well given the choices that are there I think I'd try Mel Tucker. Doesn't Steele have a couple fairly significant mental issues? Isn't he alleged to be a nervous wreck on game day? That's the last thing UT needs. Or, I'd go with anup & comer from Troy St. or the like. Lawd what a nightmare!
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 12:49:38 EST »

Whoever it is, UT fans will be have to be supportive and give him a chance. Unless he brings in Schiano-type baggage the fans can't go nuts and protest the new hire even if they are disappointed. And I think it's a given that many people will be disappointed no matter who is picked. After all, we're talking about UT here.  Heck, read the VS. Many of them think FSU hired the better coach. There's no pleasing everyone.

We aren't getting a big name who is presently a head coach (unless there is really major surprise).

We've got to run with who we get.
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 01:08:13 EST »

Whoever it is, UT fans will be have to be supportive and give him a chance. Unless he brings in Schiano-type baggage the fans can't go nuts and protest the new hire even if they are disappointed. And I think it's a given that many people will be disappointed no matter who is picked. After all, we're talking about UT here.  Heck, read the VS. Many of them think FSU hired the better coach. There's no pleasing everyone.

We aren't getting a big name who is presently a head coach (unless there is really major surprise).

We've got to run with who we get.

Yep.  That is just where we are at this point. 
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 01:10:52 EST »

It's pretty obvious that the events of last Sunday are killing us here.  I still don't blame the fans- Schiano would've been a disaster, both on and off the field.  The blame falls squarely on Haslam/Currie for trying to ramrod him through without even talking to anyone else.  And those guys are now out of the picture.  But from the outside looking in, the perception is that the fans are insane.  No established coach is going to want to come deal with that.

I think it's time to just accept that we're about to make yet another underwhelming hire, and that we're going to be back here again in three years or so.  Hopefully we'll have Blackburn in place by then and we'll get that one right.

The original insanity was a large segment wanting Fulmer fired in 2007 prior to his recovery to the SECC.  And those same folks just came crawling right out of the woodwork in 2008 and were even more vehement.  Fulmer screwed up by trying to switch to a spread offense with Clawson, and so was gone.  So let's be real...part of our fanbase is virtually delusional in their expectations and this behavior occurs at all the major SEC schools, although the degree can vary.

Having said that, I could GAS.  I agree with what a blogger said last week...the coaches who don't like 'living in a fishbowl' will eliminate themselves from consideration and would have been a bad fit anyway.  It's widely reported that Chip Kelley is a guy who shuns the limelight and likes UCLA because football is way down the list of entertainment options there.   
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 02:02:19 EST »

The original insanity was a large segment wanting Fulmer fired in 2007 prior to his recovery to the SECC.  And those same folks just came crawling right out of the woodwork in 2008 and were even more vehement.  Fulmer screwed up by trying to switch to a spread offense with Clawson, and so was gone.  So let's be real...part of our fanbase is virtually delusional in their expectations and this behavior occurs at all the major SEC schools, although the degree can vary.

Having said that, I could GAS.  I agree with what a blogger said last week...the coaches who don't like 'living in a fishbowl' will eliminate themselves from consideration and would have been a bad fit anyway.  It's widely reported that Chip Kelley is a guy who shuns the limelight and likes UCLA because football is way down the list of entertainment options there.   

Generally agree. I do not blame the fans for the Schiano debacle. However, it is evident fan expectations are wildly disproportionate to our reality, or the reality we are given by the "powers that be". I blame the admin for a ridiculous shroud of secrecy. Rule out Gruden. Up front! However information is leaked then fizzleing properly manage it! State the facts! So & so didn't like our terms for whatever reason. Further, how exactly is an outside party, a "booster" involved in the hiring process? I honestly can't get my head around it. I guess it IS nothing more than power. Haslam out to be embarrassed. He should butt out! Thanks for the "love" but you fubar everything you touch... Diddys lil feller that you are, Jimmy boy! I haven't seen a coaching search this embarrassing since Bama post Stallings & before Saban! 
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 02:41:01 EST »

Generally agree. I do not blame the fans for the Schiano debacle. However, it is evident fan expectations are wildly disproportionate to our reality, or the reality we are given by the "powers that be". I blame the admin for a ridiculous shroud of secrecy. Rule out Gruden. Up front! However information is leaked then fizzleing properly manage it! State the facts! So & so didn't like our terms for whatever reason. Further, how exactly is an outside party, a "booster" involved in the hiring process? I honestly can't get my head around it. I guess it IS nothing more than power. Haslam out to be embarrassed. He should butt out! Thanks for the "love" but you fubar everything you touch... Diddys lil feller that you are, Jimmy boy! I haven't seen a coaching search this embarrassing since Bama post Stallings & before Saban!  

...and why I relate. I've followed this search first because it is UT and I want to know, and second because it became like a book you couldn't put down; you can't wait for the next twist and turn of the events.

From a fan perspective, yes, I also lived through it.

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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 02:50:16 EST »

Generally agree. I do not blame the fans for the Schiano debacle. However, it is evident fan expectations are wildly disproportionate to our reality, or the reality we are given by the "powers that be". I blame the admin for a ridiculous shroud of secrecy. Rule out Gruden. Up front! However information is leaked then fizzleing properly manage it! State the facts! So & so didn't like our terms for whatever reason. Further, how exactly is an outside party, a "booster" involved in the hiring process? I honestly can't get my head around it. I guess it IS nothing more than power. Haslam out to be embarrassed. He should butt out! Thanks for the "love" but you fubar everything you touch... Diddys lil feller that you are, Jimmy boy! I haven't seen a coaching search this embarrassing since Bama post Stallings & before Saban! 

From the point it became evident that Butch wasn't going to make it (let's say it was the UGA game, but YMMV) the fans expected a big-time hire, and I believe they were justified in doing so.  The only thing the fans were unrealistic about was in trusting our administration to handle this in a competent manner.  Even in the presser announcing Butch's firing, Currie stated that money would be no object.  Laugh it off if you must, but there are several well-respected media folks who were and still are saying that a Gruden deal was basically done until Haslam pulled his little power play and tried to install Schiano.  The fans were absolutely justified in reacting the way they did, as it appears to have removed Haslam from the equation.  That's a very good thing in the long run, but short-term, it's probably going to cost us any chance at a quality hire.  Maybe we can finally get it right next time.  But barring a miracle, it's not happening right now.
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 02:57:49 EST »

From the point it became evident that Butch wasn't going to make it (let's say it was the UGA game, but YMMV) the fans expected a big-time hire, and I believe they were justified in doing so.  The only thing the fans were unrealistic about was in trusting our administration to handle this in a competent manner.  Even in the presser announcing Butch's firing, Currie stated that money would be no object.  Laugh it off if you must, but there are several well-respected media folks who were and still are saying that a Gruden deal was basically done until Haslam pulled his little power play and tried to install Schiano.  The fans were absolutely justified in reacting the way they did, as it appears to have removed Haslam from the equation.  That's a very good thing in the long run, but short-term, it's probably going to cost us any chance at a quality hire.  Maybe we can finally get it right next time.  But barring a miracle, it's not happening right now.

Oh yeah, one other thing BDV. As far as the sheer idiocy of wanting to name Schiano for the position, imagine our utter disbelief in the late eighties when at the request of the UA president the Tide search committee picked Bill Curry over Bobby Bowden who had wanted the job for eons. Hand me a rock and show me the next window...


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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 03:08:23 EST »

From the point it became evident that Butch wasn't going to make it (let's say it was the UGA game, but YMMV) the fans expected a big-time hire, and I believe they were justified in doing so.  The only thing the fans were unrealistic about was in trusting our administration to handle this in a competent manner.  Even in the presser announcing Butch's firing, Currie stated that money would be no object.  Laugh it off if you must, but there are several well-respected media folks who were and still are saying that a Gruden deal was basically done until Haslam pulled his little power play and tried to install Schiano.  The fans were absolutely justified in reacting the way they did, as it appears to have removed Haslam from the equation.  That's a very good thing in the long run, but short-term, it's probably going to cost us any chance at a quality hire.  Maybe we can finally get it right next time.  But barring a miracle, it's not happening right now.

I don't have any issues with rejecting Schiano, but...I think the running oft of Fulmer, the over-reaction to losing Kiffin so quickly (yes...a riot is an over reaction!) and then the quick rejection of Jones by some((as in,they never supported him for one day) has added to the problem (notice I don't mention Dooley  ).

But again...I could GAS what the national media or other fans say. At this point, I trust Fulmer to at least find someone competent.  And who knows, he might just knock it out of the park.  This is just MO, but I think Fulmer as AD heals a lot of wounds and erases some bad karma.   Good things will happen.

At the end of the day, just remember that our minimum standard at this point is "better than Butch Jones".   

And while that's a relatively low bar, the bar Jones had to cross was...well nonexistent.   
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 03:10:59 EST »

It's pretty obvious that the events of last Sunday are killing us here.  I still don't blame the fans- Schiano would've been a disaster, both on and off the field.  The blame falls squarely on Haslam/Currie for trying to ramrod him through without even talking to anyone else.  And those guys are now out of the picture.  But from the outside looking in, the perception is that the fans are insane.  No established coach is going to want to come deal with that.

I think it's time to just accept that we're about to make yet another underwhelming hire, and that we're going to be back here again in three years or so.  Hopefully we'll have Blackburn in place by then and we'll get that one right.

Let's just call a spade a spade. Fans (myself included) wanted Currie fired, and rightfully so. He derailed this process from the beginning by targeting Schiano instead of the proven head coaches who would've taken the job, and without a second thought as to how the fan base would react to the Schiano hire.

So we managed to get Currie fired, and he was replaced by Fulmer, who is determined that a sitting defensive coordinator would be the best hire. The Schiano debacle certainly didn't help this search, but it didn't completely kill it, either. Jeff Brohm wanted the job; we just couldn't come to terms with him. Mike Leach wanted the job. Les Miles wanted the job. And Fulmer is insistent on going after a current SEC defensive coordinator.

As a fan, I'm appalled. Whether Tucker or Steele or Pruitt is trotted out tomorrow, I'm in full-on "show me" mode for the first time ever. I will not go to another game, will not spend another dime supporting the UTAD, until whomever the head coach is proves he can move the program forward. I'm sick and tired of the nonsense, tired of administrators and boosters who are power-hungry or egotistical or stubborn or all three using the UT football program as their personal playground.
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2017, 03:19:17 EST »

I don't have any issues with rejecting Schiano, but...I think the running oft of Fulmer, the over-reaction to losing Kiffin so quickly (yes...a riot is an over reaction!) and then the quick rejection of Jones by some((as in,they never supported him for one day) has added to the problem (notice I don't mention Dooley  ).

But again...I could GAS what the national media or other fans say. At this point, I trust Fulmer to at least find someone competent.  And who knows, he might just knock it out of the park.  This is just MO, but I think Fulmer as AD heals a lot of wounds and erases some bad karma.   Good things will happen.

At the end of the day, just remember that our minimum standard at this point is "better than Butch Jones".   

And while that's a relatively low bar, the bar Jones had to cross was...well nonexistent.   

Well I hate to be the one to point this out, but Butch's resume when he was hired here was VASTLY superior to the resumes of any of the three rumored frontrunners being talked about right now.  That doesn't mean they can't succeed here, but it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. 

If I have to pick one, I'll take Pruitt.  I guess.
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2017, 03:24:52 EST »

Let's just call a spade a spade. Fans (myself included) wanted Currie fired, and rightfully so. He derailed this process from the beginning by targeting Schiano instead of the proven head coaches who would've taken the job, and without a second thought as to how the fan base would react to the Schiano hire.

So we managed to get Currie fired, and he was replaced by Fulmer, who is determined that a sitting defensive coordinator would be the best hire. The Schiano debacle certainly didn't help this search, but it didn't completely kill it, either. Jeff Brohm wanted the job; we just couldn't come to terms with him. Mike Leach wanted the job. Les Miles wanted the job. And Fulmer is insistent on going after a current SEC defensive coordinator.

As a fan, I'm appalled. Whether Tucker or Steele or Pruitt is trotted out tomorrow, I'm in full-on "show me" mode for the first time ever. I will not go to another game, will not spend another dime supporting the UTAD, until whomever the head coach is proves he can move the program forward. I'm sick and tired of the nonsense, tired of administrators and boosters who are power-hungry or egotistical or stubborn or all three using the UT football program as their personal playground.

I was excited about the Fulmer hire because of what it meant (the ousting of Haslam), not because I thought he would be a superstar AD.  He gets to make this hire by default, but he absolutely CANNOT be a long-term answer in that office.  If it were up to me, I'd want to ease him out shortly after the coaching hire is made and transition over to Blackburn.
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2017, 03:30:31 EST »

I was excited about the Fulmer hire because of what it meant (the ousting of Haslam), not because I thought he would be a superstar AD.  He gets to make this hire by default, but he absolutely CANNOT be a long-term answer in that office.  If it were up to me, I'd want to ease him out shortly after the coaching hire is made and transition over to Blackburn.

I was opposed to Fulmer as AD when Currie was hired, and I was opposed to Fulmer as AD last week. Fulmer feels like the good ol' boy in a role that requires administrative fortitude, and that's exactly how he seems to have approached this coaching search: with a good ol' boy mentality. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll turn over the reigns to Blackburn any time soon. His inner circle have already been talking about how it's his job for as long as he wants it.

I have no doubt that Fulmer loves this university and wants what's best for it. Sadly, I think that what he thinks is best will just further set our program back.
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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2017, 03:38:43 EST »

As I've posted before.....Fulmer is in the AD's chair now and he won't be getting out of it anytime soon.
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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2017, 03:55:31 EST »

Let's just call a spade a spade. Fans (myself included) wanted Currie fired, and rightfully so. He derailed this process from the beginning by targeting Schiano instead of the proven head coaches who would've taken the job, and without a second thought as to how the fan base would react to the Schiano hire.

So we managed to get Currie fired, and he was replaced by Fulmer, who is determined that a sitting defensive coordinator would be the best hire. The Schiano debacle certainly didn't help this search, but it didn't completely kill it, either. Jeff Brohm wanted the job; we just couldn't come to terms with him. Mike Leach wanted the job. Les Miles wanted the job. And Fulmer is insistent on going after a current SEC defensive coordinator.

As a fan, I'm appalled. Whether Tucker or Steele or Pruitt is trotted out tomorrow, I'm in full-on "show me" mode for the first time ever. I will not go to another game, will not spend another dime supporting the UTAD, until whomever the head coach is proves he can move the program forward. I'm sick and tired of the nonsense, tired of administrators and boosters who are power-hungry or egotistical or stubborn or all three using the UT football program as their personal playground.

I am not certain that either is true...that Fulmer has settled on a DC nor that it will be announced tomorrow.

Plenty of smoke on both, but there has been plenty of smoke already.

Actually here is a conspiracy rumor I've heard...Fulmer is interviewing DCs to be DC with himself as HC and Tee as OC.  I'll take it!   
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