Sheesh.....that was ugly........

[droner]

......… and they almost blew it.

[Tnphil]

When Barnes is pi$$ed on a TV interview you know it's bad. That was 2 bad teams dooking it out. And that was about as bad a last minute out of us that is possible and still be called a basketball team.

[VinnieVOL]

Sounds like I didn't miss much by not watching.   

[SmokeyJoe]

When Barnes is pi$$ed on a TV interview you know it's bad. That was 2 bad teams dooking it out. And that was about as bad a last minute out of us that is possible and still be called a basketball team.

"We" are terrible. Sure hope the youngsters hel po next year!

[Creek Walker]

Rick Barnes is overpaid, he didn't recruit well enough 2 years ago, his team is lazy, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, and so on.

[SmokeyJoe]

Rick Barnes is overpaid, he didn't recruit well enough 2 years ago, his team is lazy, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, and so on.

I'm not saying that! I like Barnes, but this is a poor team. Course, they've had adversity. I'm still firmly in Barnes corner, which matters about as much as volsboy being out   

[Creek Walker]

I'm not saying that!

Hey, my tongue-in-cheek post was aimed at one poster and one poster only...and it certainly wasn't you! 

[volsboy]

I'm not apologizing for my stance on Barnes. He is a good coach. I just refuse to cut him any slack because of the way he played the Vols athletic department with the UCLA bullshizzle. He now earns big boy money. He should compete for SEC titles every year and be a shoo in the make the NCAA tourney every year. I understand this year is a rebuilding year. He has a good class coming in. But until they are actually on the court who knows what they will be. Rebuilding is not an excuse for playing lazy with no hustle. He makes top 10 pay. He should start competing with the other coaches teams in his pay grade sooner rather than later. I don't get paying him premium money and not expecting premium results. Based on salary, why don't you expect him to make the Vols a top 10-15 program every year? He will be expected to sustain the last two years success annually. Or should be.

[PirateVOL]

Hey, my tongue-in-cheek post was aimed at one poster and one poster only...and it certainly wasn't you! 

I only open posts of posters that have demonstrated cognitive thought 

[Creek Walker]

I'm not apologizing for my stance on Barnes. He is a good coach. I just refuse to cut him any slack because of the way he played the Vols athletic department with the UCLA bullshizzle. He now earns big boy money. He should compete for SEC titles every year and be a shoo in the make the NCAA tourney every year. I understand this year is a rebuilding year. He has a good class coming in. But until they are actually on the court who knows what they will be. Rebuilding is not an excuse for playing lazy with no hustle. He makes top 10 pay. He should start competing with the other coaches teams in his pay grade sooner rather than later. I don't get paying him premium money and not expecting premium results. Based on salary, why don't you expect him to make the Vols a top 10-15 program every year? He will be expected to sustain the last two years success annually. Or should be.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed because you lack the ability to see the forest for the trees. Program-building is a process and there are going to be setbacks along the way. Ninety-five percent of this year's issues can be laid directly at the feet of recruiting. Tennessee doesn't have the tools to compete this year. We knew coming in that an NCAAT bid was going to be tough, and that was when Turner was still healthy and before we knew Bowden was going to have a subpar season. Your argument is that he should've recruited better two years ago. That's easier said than done. Two years ago Tennessee was hardly viewed as a top destination for prep hoops talent. That's where program-building comes in. Since Barnes proved that he can put winning teams on the floor at Tennessee, he has the attention of all the recruits. We have a boatload of talent coming in now. There was always going to be some overlap. Last year (and, to a bit of a lesser degree, the year before) was great because Barnes had special guys to work with. Those guys, their willingness to leave it all on the floor, and their team chemistry don't come along every year. Sit back and be patient. We've seen what Barnes can do in developing average players like Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield. Now let's see how he can develop elite players. (And in the meantime, don't come in here saying "He is a good coach" whenever you're throwing out "Same ol' Rick Barnes" every time you get the chance.)

[Tnphil]

When Barnes was hired he was our 4th BB coach in 6 years and 2 of those coaches left the program under the hand of the NCAA hammer....I'm sure top elite basketball recruits were knocking our doors down wanting to play at UT.

Now going forward Barnes doesn't need to have us in this position we are in this season again and don't think he will...He gets a pass from me this season but going forward no so much.

[PirateVOL]

When Barnes was hired he was our 4th BB coach in 6 years and 2 of those coaches left the program under the hand of the NCAA hammer....I'm sure top elite basketball recruits were knocking our doors down wanting to play at UT.

Now going forward Barnes doesn't need to have us in this position we are in this season again and don't think he will...He gets a pass from me this season but going forward no so much.

I agree
I had assumed that if Grant was at least as god his Jr year as his So year (he was better) he would go pro
I thought Bone needed another year and was surprised (based on contemporaneous information) that he declared and left
Add in Turner's injury and we had at least two key parts not on the team that (I believe) the staff were counting on

The team was ALWAYS going to take a step back due to the departures of Grant and Admiral (LEADERSHIP and production) as well as the reasons Creek mentioned
With Bone departing and Turner's injury Barnes was left with an essentially development squad

I have seen development, just not consistently displayed - yet.
Barnes' frustration showed last night as he observed a step back last night
Dinero (see Bert's call last night in a trey) is learning on the job, not the best of situations

If the talent that is coming in is half as good as expectations we should be back to where we were two years ago
If they meet expectations we could be as good as last year
A lot depends on the chemistry that develops

[Tnphil]

Good post. Pirate

Just think were we'd probably be if SV hadn't come in after the first of the year...and he's barley 18 years old and was thrown into the fire after 1 week of practice. Also JJJ hasn't been healthy since preseason. Just a very odd season.

[volsboy]

Your argument is fundamentally flawed because you lack the ability to see the forest for the trees. Program-building is a process and there are going to be setbacks along the way. Ninety-five percent of this year's issues can be laid directly at the feet of recruiting. Tennessee doesn't have the tools to compete this year. We knew coming in that an NCAAT bid was going to be tough, and that was when Turner was still healthy and before we knew Bowden was going to have a subpar season. Your argument is that he should've recruited better two years ago. That's easier said than done. Two years ago Tennessee was hardly viewed as a top destination for prep hoops talent. That's where program-building comes in. Since Barnes proved that he can put winning teams on the floor at Tennessee, he has the attention of all the recruits. We have a boatload of talent coming in now. There was always going to be some overlap. Last year (and, to a bit of a lesser degree, the year before) was great because Barnes had special guys to work with. Those guys, their willingness to leave it all on the floor, and their team chemistry don't come along every year. Sit back and be patient. We've seen what Barnes can do in developing average players like Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield. Now let's see how he can develop elite players. (And in the meantime, don't come in here saying "He is a good coach" whenever you're throwing out "Same ol' Rick Barnes" every time you get the chance.)

Bite me. He is a good coach. Never said otherwise. I just don't think he is an elite coach. But he is making elite coach money. He IS typical Barnes. Has  good teams that seem to underachieve when it matters. He had some really good teams at Texas, including the Durant led ones. He had a good team last year that won 30 games that didn't even win an SEC title. The team was ranked number one at one time but choked down the stretch to end the season. He is a real good coach that is making elite coach money. He will have to start producing elite results in the next couple of years. Is just making the "dance" enough for you tools to justify his salary? Not me. What makes you think just because he makes more money now it is going to miraculously make him an elite coach? Why did Texas let him go? How many years do you give him to win 30 games again? Asking for a friend.

[PirateVOL]

Good post. Pirate

Just think were we'd probably be if SV hadn't come in after the first of the year...and he's barley 18 years old and was thrown into the fire after 1 week of practice. Also JJJ hasn't been healthy since preseason. Just a very odd season.

Thanks, I had forgotten about JJJ
Another piece of the puzzle that has hurt the teams play this year.
Add in Bowden's sustained slump (I really think he is trying too hard to pick up the slack)
and we are where we are

[Creek Walker]

Bite me.

When you craft well-reasoned, mature arguments like that one, I don't even know how to respond ... so instead I'll just bow in the presence of your superior knowledge of the game of basketball and coaching in general.

[volsboy]

When you craft well-reasoned, mature arguments like that one, I don't even know how to respond ... so instead I'll just bow in the presence of your superior knowledge of the game of basketball and coaching in general.

Sorry to be negative. We knew this year was going to be iffy. I just want them to play hard and hustle. Not much to ask of a coach.

[PirateVOL]

Sorry to be negative. We knew this year was going to be iffy. I just want them to play hard and hustle. Not much to ask of a coach.

You are as fizzleING CLUELESS AS THE DAY IS LONG!

[volsboy]

You are as fizzleING CLUELESS AS THE DAY IS LONG!

If you mean that I am not an apologist for these coaches then yep. He played them to get his raise so he needs to produce in the next few years. I am just amazed at how low the bar is for some folks. What kind of teams will he need to produce to justify his salary?  SEC titles, Final Fours, one and done, just making the NCAAA tourney. What is it?

[PirateVOL]

If you mean that I am not an apologist for these coaches then yep. He played them to get his raise so he needs to produce in the next few years. I am just amazed at how low the bar is for some folks. What kind of teams will he need to produce to justify his salary?  SEC titles, Final Fours, one and done, just making the NCAAA tourney. What is it?

Thus displaying a total lack of cognitive skills!
or any basketball knowledge whatsoever

[volsboy]

Barnes is a good coach. Doesn't have the talent this year. He has always been good for 20+ wins throughout his career. I just don't think he will move the Vols program farther than he got the Texas program to. But the money he makes should warrant it. Which still ain't bad. If he can give smug-assed Pearl an L coming up I will not bad-mouth him any more this season. Does anyone realistically expect Tennessee basketball to be like Duke, Kansas or KY? If not, then why pay him what they are? He definitely outsmarted them when it came to salary.

[volsboy]

Thus displaying a total lack of cognitive skills!
or any basketball knowledge whatsoever

Yep you know it all. I remember when you were on the Butch bandwagon. That says all I need to know about you and your coaching evaluations.  
EDIT: Sorry for my response to your personal attacks. I never make personal attacks. Or at least try not to. We can do better. Like I have said before.....I do like your game recaps.

[wtkvol]

Bite me. He is a good coach. Never said otherwise. I just don't think he is an elite coach. But he is making elite coach money. He IS typical Barnes. Has  good teams that seem to underachieve when it matters. He had some really good teams at Texas, including the Durant led ones. He had a good team last year that won 30 games that didn't even win an SEC title. The team was ranked number one at one time but choked down the stretch to end the season. He is a real good coach that is making elite coach money. He will have to start producing elite results in the next couple of years. Is just making the "dance" enough for you tools to justify his salary? Not me. What makes you think just because he makes more money now it is going to miraculously make him an elite coach? Why did Texas let him go? How many years do you give him to win 30 games again? Asking for a friend.

The only way Tenn is going to have an elite coach is to pay a good coach elite money and hope he becomes elite.
Tenn is not Ky,Duke etc.

[Creek Walker]

The bottom line on Barnes' pay is this: Can anyone name a period in the last 20 years when Tennessee basketball was as much fun as it was last year and the second half of the year before? Maybe the Pearl years...and guess what? If Pearl were still at Tennessee, he'd probably be making close to what Barnes is making.

[PirateVOL]

Yep you know it all. I remember when you were on the Butch bandwagon. That says all I need to know about you and your coaching evaluations.  
EDIT: Sorry for my response to your personal attacks. I never make personal attacks. Or at least try not to. We can do better. Like I have said before.....I do like your game recaps.

You like the nee part in your hair?