Butch Jones should be put in jail for fraud.............

[droner]

......for impersonating a football coach. How could he think Trevor Lawrence wasn't the QB for the Vols? And Lawrence was a big Vol fan!     

[Black Diamond Vol]

How long has Etienne been at Clemson now? Seems like just yesterday when he was playing with Refrigerator Perry.

[Tnphil]

Passed on Lawrence for Gitmo.......All anyone needs to know what a fraud Bozo Botch was.

[Cobbvol]

You can add Travis Etienne to the list as well.

[BanditVol]

I've never heard a clean story on the Butch/Lawrence thing.  My impression has been that Lawrence was interested in UT but saw a better opportunity at Clemson and took it, and Butch Jones just gets blamed for that (which is probably fair).  I haven't seen any sources definitively say Butch turned Lawrence away. 

OTOH, Lane Kiffin publicly announced that he was no longer recruiting Tajh Boyd the day after doing an in-home, which to this day I'm convinced is face saving Bullshizzle after Boyd turned him down, but regardless of what I think or guess at, Lane absolutely said in a presser he didn't want Boyd. 

I don't think the case is that clear with Butch and Lawrence.  But maybe I missed something.

[BanditVol]

......for impersonating a football coach. How could he think Trevor Lawrence wasn't the QB for the Vols? And Lawrence was a big Vol fan!     

The only thing I have found on this is that Jones "didn't go after Lawrence".  Either didn't recruit him very hard, or not at all, might have overlooked him.  Which IS bad!  But not a shred of evidence I can see that says he literally told him to take a hike.

I just don't think that's the case.

Certainly don't care for Butch, and not defending him, but also not sure that Lawrence would have come to UT even if ole Butch had gone after him really hard.  Just wondering how attractive our program was at that point in time even to a lifelong Vol fan.

[PirateVOL]

The only thing I have found on this is that Jones "didn't go after Lawrence".  Either didn't recruit him very hard, or not at all, might have overlooked him.  Which IS bad!  But not a shred of evidence I can see that says he literally told him to take a hike.

I just don't think that's the case.

Certainly don't care for Butch, and not defending him, but also not sure that Lawrence would have come to UT even if ole Butch had gone after him really hard.  Just wondering how attractive our program was at that point in time even to a lifelong Vol fan.

He wouldn't come to UT BECAUSE of the carneybarker!
He WANTED to come to UT but Butch pissed him off

[Black Diamond Vol]

He wouldn't come to UT BECAUSE of the carneybarker!
He WANTED to come to UT but Butch pissed him off

That 2018 class was an all-timer in state and for UT legacies, and that’s not even including Lawrence, who should’ve been a slam dunk for UT. That was potentially our best class ever, and Butch squandered it all.

[BanditVol]

He wouldn't come to UT BECAUSE of the carneybarker!
He WANTED to come to UT but Butch pissed him off

now THAT I can believe

Still I would push back on the "pissed him off part", unless you have a source

While Berch Jerns was certainly capable of such, he didn't need to

Just his shizzlety coaching was enough 


Unfortunately...

[BanditVol]

That 2018 class was an all-timer in state and for UT legacies, and that’s not even including Lawrence, who should’ve been a slam dunk for UT. That was potentially our best class ever, and Butch squandered it all.

I had to google to see where Butch even is. Still at bammer.  fizzleing sob sticking it to us as long as he can.  But then again, likely no one wants him as HC.  I believe his contract will be paid off in about 9 months. Interesting to see what happens then.

But I had to google to find out when Trevor committed to The Ugly Orange East of Us, and it was December 2016.  So yeah, the really shizzlety end of that season probably cost us Trevor also.

Just think if we had been 10-2 or even 11-1, which was possible with the talent that year.  fizzleing Butch. 

[PirateVOL]

now THAT I can believe

Still I would push back on the "pissed him off part", unless you have a source

While Berch Jerns was certainly capable of such, he didn't need to

Just his shizzlety coaching was enough 


Unfortunately...

 

[HerbTarlekVol]

Lawrence and his Dad made an unofficial visit to UT and Butch never even took the time to greet them and instead sent a GA to greet them.   He pretty much let them know that he felt like Lawrence wasn't good enough to play at UT.

[droner]

Lawrence and his Dad made an unofficial visit to UT and Butch never even took the time to greet them and instead sent a GA to let greet them.   He pretty much let them know that he felt like Lawrence wasn't good enough to play at UT.

 

[volsboy]

As I look at all the posters in this thread, except maybe Herb, I have to smh at you. Every one of you slobbered over Butch when he got here. You bought into the brick by brick bs. But I caught hell because I called it like I saw it from the start. Dobbs was better than Worley from day one. Yet you made excuses for Butch. But the biggest reason I knew Butch was not an SEC caliber coach was the first OU game. I knew x's and o's were not Butch's strong suit. However he was 9-4 two years in a row. OMG he is a great coach. Then he started one season 5-0 with the UGa miracle. How did that season end up? Now we have Pruitt. You are all slobbering over him because he beat the teams UT teams should beat. I like Pruitt. I didn't like Jones. However, I can't overlook the loss to Ga St. I still feel he is in over his head. He looks like the type of coach that needs to out talent his opponents instead of out coaching them. I am on board with him a lot more than I was with Jones. When he beats UGa, UF and Bammer in the same season, then I will say he is the man. This year is kind of a mulligan for everyone. He better recruit a top QB. If Bailey is that guy, he should be better than JG from day one. Okay let the excuses and whining begin in..1,2,3... Plus one more thing...let's wait and see how many of his current recruits end up in Knoxville before we call him Lombardi.

[HerbTarlekVol]

As I look at all the posters in this thread, except maybe Herb, I have to smh at you. Every one of you slobbered over Butch when he got here. You bought into the brick by brick bs. But I caught hell because I called it like I saw it from the start. Dobbs was better than Worley from day one. Yet you made excuses for Butch. But the biggest reason I knew Butch was not an SEC caliber coach was the first OU game. I knew x's and o's were not Butch's strong suit. However he was 9-4 two years in a row. OMG he is a great coach. Then he started one season 5-0 with the UGa miracle. How did that season end up? Now we have Pruitt. You are all slobbering over him because he beat the teams UT teams should beat. I like Pruitt. I didn't like Jones. However, I can't overlook the loss to Ga St. I still feel he is in over his head. He looks like the type of coach that needs to out talent his opponents instead of out coaching them. I am on board with him a lot more than I was with Jones. When he beats UGa, UF and Bammer in the same season, then I will say he is the man. This year is kind of a mulligan for everyone. He better recruit a top QB. If Bailey is that guy, he should be better than JG from day one. Okay let the excuses and whining begin in..1,2,3... Plus one more thing...let's wait and see how many of his current recruits end up in Knoxville before we call him Lombardi.

I'm with you on Coach Poot.  He is an upgrade over Butch, if for no other reason that he isn't an arrogant #badword#.  He's still young as a head coach and has a lot to learn, but his high school coaching roots seem to keep him humble and I see some humility and hunger to get better that I never saw with Butch.  Butch was more worried about who was on the shizzle list he carried in his back pocket to blame for his failures.  At least Poot isn't making excuses.  

That said, right now I can't get past the fact that Poot is still insisting on keeping the fans in agony with Gitmo as his QB.  I just don't understand that at all.  

[BanditVol]

As I look at all the posters in this thread, except maybe Herb, I have to smh at you. Every one of you slobbered over Butch when he got here. You bought into the brick by brick bs. But I caught hell because I called it like I saw it from the start. Dobbs was better than Worley from day one. Yet you made excuses for Butch. But the biggest reason I knew Butch was not an SEC caliber coach was the first OU game. I knew x's and o's were not Butch's strong suit. However he was 9-4 two years in a row. OMG he is a great coach. Then he started one season 5-0 with the UGa miracle. How did that season end up? Now we have Pruitt. You are all slobbering over him because he beat the teams UT teams should beat. I like Pruitt. I didn't like Jones. However, I can't overlook the loss to Ga St. I still feel he is in over his head. He looks like the type of coach that needs to out talent his opponents instead of out coaching them. I am on board with him a lot more than I was with Jones. When he beats UGa, UF and Bammer in the same season, then I will say he is the man. This year is kind of a mulligan for everyone. He better recruit a top QB. If Bailey is that guy, he should be better than JG from day one. Okay let the excuses and whining begin in..1,2,3... Plus one more thing...let's wait and see how many of his current recruits end up in Knoxville before we call him Lombardi.

You and others continually make the mistake of supporting the program and being optimistic about it for support of a coach.  It's never about the coach for me, I don't do personal loyalty.

What I have pushed back on you about over the years is that you are reflexively negative about everything and you have high expectations pulled out of your arse that are simply not based in reality.  "When Pruitt beats bama, Florida and Georgia in the same year...".  Yeah, when he recruits at least back to back, if not three in a row, Top 5 recruiting classes I might agree with you.

We literally lost more games in 2017 at any time in our history.  But you want Pruitt to just show up and beat our three strongest rivals.  You're not deluded, you're bat shizzle crazy!

For the record, of all the people UT actually interviewed in 2012, Butch was about 5th or 6th on my list.  I was not a fan of the hiring at all. But I got on board and supported the team because that's what a good fan does.  It's never about supporting the coach, just the program.

Butch was 10x better than Dooley though.  Dooley actually had a losing record as a HC BEFORE he was hired, and never had a winning season at UT.  Butch did at least have those two 9 game winning seasons, as you point out.

[volsboy]

You and others continually make the mistake of supporting the program and being optimistic about it for support of a coach.  It's never about the coach for me, I don't do personal loyalty.

What I have pushed back on you about over the years is that you are reflexively negative about everything and you have high expectations pulled out of your arse that are simply not based in reality.  "When Pruitt beats bama, Florida and Georgia in the same year...".  Yeah, when he recruits at least back to back, if not three in a row, Top 5 recruiting classes I might agree with you.

We literally lost more games in 2017 at any time in our history.  But you want Pruitt to just show up and beat our three strongest rivals.  You're not deluded, you're bat shizzle crazy!

For the record, of all the people UT actually interviewed in 2012, Butch was about 5th or 6th on my list.  I was not a fan of the hiring at all. But I got on board and supported the team because that's what a good fan does.  It's never about supporting the coach, just the program.

Butch was 10x better than Dooley though.  Dooley actually had a losing record as a HC BEFORE he was fired, and never had a winning season at UT.  Butch did at least have those two 9 game winning seasons, as you point out.

How long should it take to become competitive? There is no correct answer because some do it in 2 years, some do it in 5 years and some never do it. I expect more than the Outback Bowl to be the ceiling for the Vols. That means we have to beat the three big teams on our schedule more than once every 10-15 years. The year we won the NC we did that. Beat them all in the same year. It's not a coincidence. I know it ain't easy. But he is getting paid too much to lose to Ga. State. We'll see how Kiffin and Leach do with their dumpster fires they inherited.

[VOLMAN]

Given the dearth of talent Pruitt inherited, I'd say 4 yrs before I'd expect to be taking the likes of Bama, Fla & Ga to the wire every year. I see a huge improvement in the teaching of position techniques and position play recognition. There's no comparison regarding the improvement in recruiting. I also see a huge improvement in effort for 4 quarters. Give Pruitt a chance, I think he's gonna get us back in contention for SECCs and along with that comes contention for NCs.           

[Cobbvol]

As I look at all the posters in this thread, except maybe Herb, I have to smh at you. Every one of you slobbered over Butch when he got here. You bought into the brick by brick bs. But I caught hell because I called it like I saw it from the start. Dobbs was better than Worley from day one. Yet you made excuses for Butch. But the biggest reason I knew Butch was not an SEC caliber coach was the first OU game. I knew x's and o's were not Butch's strong suit. However he was 9-4 two years in a row. OMG he is a great coach. Then he started one season 5-0 with the UGa miracle. How did that season end up? Now we have Pruitt. You are all slobbering over him because he beat the teams UT teams should beat. I like Pruitt. I didn't like Jones. However, I can't overlook the loss to Ga St. I still feel he is in over his head. He looks like the type of coach that needs to out talent his opponents instead of out coaching them. I am on board with him a lot more than I was with Jones. When he beats UGa, UF and Bammer in the same season, then I will say he is the man. This year is kind of a mulligan for everyone. He better recruit a top QB. If Bailey is that guy, he should be better than JG from day one. Okay let the excuses and whining begin in..1,2,3... Plus one more thing...let's wait and see how many of his current recruits end up in Knoxville before we call him Lombardi.

I don't know of anyone who "slobbered over Butch when he got here". In 2012, there were 4 SEC teams looking for HC's (Auburn, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Tennessee). Their AD's quietly went about their search and had landed their guys. Tennessee accomplishments were to have dealt with rumors of Gruden, followed by a rejection of our offer by Gundy to stay at OKST, followed by another rejection of our offer by Strong to stay our Louisville. Depending on who you talk to, there may have even been another rejection by Fedora to stay and NC.

The time was now the first week of December and the media was asking what was the issue with the Tennessee search, probably chuckling under their breath. Recruits were setting up January visits and assistant coaching vacancies were being filled.

So for me, Butch Jones was not my choice, but he looked to be the only one who wanted the job and given the time on the calendar we did not have much choice.

[FLVOL]

How long should it take to become competitive?

riddle me this: Would you send your 4 or 5 star son to play at Bama/UGA or UT, even though you're a UT fan?

It takes years to prove to people that a program is on an upward path and not a continued downward spiral, but I'm sure you knew this already Bama Perry

[Creek Walker]

The year we won the NC we did that. Beat them all in the same year. It's not a coincidence. 

Well no shizzle.

[BanditVol]

Well no shizzle.

 

[VOLMAN]

"Bama Perry"....man I had forgot all about him, so that's who volboy really is huh?                               

[volsboy]

Guess I just see coaches come in and do well from the get-go. Like horse-face. Won the east this first two years.

[VOLMAN]

Guess I just see coaches come in and do well from the get-go. Like horse-face. Won the east this first two years.

I don't care who the coach is, if he doesn't have talented players and a good staff he's not winning championships.