VTTW Board Index

IMO. CDD has made good hires.

I think they are rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. I have no doubt that Sunseri can coach LBs, but him as a DC does nothing to excite me. If he was such a great DC, why is he a LB coach at his age? Frankly I'm not sure Dooley could've done any better due to our program being crappy and his job security being tenuous, but I don't think it's what I'd call a "good" hire much less "great".

Sunseri does not excite me but it doesn't make me angry the way the Baylor or La Tech guys wouldve.  Just "meh".

I'm not giddy over the hire (if it goes through), but I'm not really disappointed. IIRC, Sunseri won the award for best recruiter for 2011. He's also listed as Assistant Head Coach along with LB's, FWIW. We're just not in a position to provide any security for a coach with a bigger name.

So, now I say, "Just get it done." (and I don't mean the hire, I mean on the field)

I disagree though I do think there were better candidates "out there" they may not have been available (see Withers) for whatever reason or do not fit CDDs coaching style/philosophy.  I think if Bisaccia accepts that is a large upgrade, as was Graham.

It looks as if Hiestand is leaving (a late Christmas present) which should be an upgrade IMO.

Bottom line is that last year CDD stress continuity to help stabalize the program but now he is looking to improve the staff.

I wasn't talking about Bisaccia (or Graham for that matter), and I won't believe Bisaccia is coming until he does. Since he is in the NFL and would be making basically a lateral move in title but stepping down to college, we will have to overpay and we've gone down this road with him twice before.

There is no way to know if Hiestand leaving is an upgrade until we see who they hire. I am not convinced Heistand is the problem although I don't really care if he leaves.

I have come to realize that most Vol fans will drink the kool aid no matter what happens. Until recently I've always been just as bad as the next person, but all I see right now is a big bunch of "meh". As Stogie said above, it's time to just get it done on the field. All the rationalization and spin won't fix anything if we go 7-5 or worse next year.

One thing that I think most of us agree on is that Mike Hamilton basically ruined our football program. He was not a good manager and allowed Fulmer to go complacent, then even though it was time for Phil to go he fired him in the worst possible way and screwed up the search afterwards. If you are going to fire a Fulmer you have to be prepared to overpay to replace him. Then when Kiffin left him with his pants down he panicked in the face of possible NCAA stuff and underhired again. All the while, the fool was going on radio shows cautioning fans that Tennessee wasn't the job they thought it was.

We are now a second tier college football program because of the tenure of a second tier AD, and that's what we are paying for today... a stripped roster with a midmajor coach who can't go out and hire the coaches he needs to have to rebuild the program and probably wouldn't be able to keep them if he did.

whatever :dunno:

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y9_vYdQ7nRA/TVM0cZbafEI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/w6I9JKafry4/s1600/50255_31167519355_1386669_n.jpg)

 :loco:

Exactly.

Why do you think Sunseri is great?  Great imo would be at the least coming close to what we had.  That didn't happen, Sunseri is unproven, and as far as I know has never been pursued by any major college for a coordinators position. I like the Graham hire, and the special teams guy might a good hire, don't know much about him.

We are not that far apart on our overall opinions. Hamilton had his strengths but as you say, he should not have been the head guy.

The only place where I completely disagree is in placing the lion's share of the blame solely on Kiffin. Kiffin was a big part of what we dealt with last year when we had injuries because of all the players he ran off, but Fulmer was responsible for leaving the cupboard largely bare of underclass talent for Kiffin (which is why Kiffin ran them all off) and Dooley was responsible for losing his team and letting the locker room and coaching rooms blow up when times got tough. And who was ultimately responsible for all of that? The man who let Fulmer get complacent and hired Kiffin and Dooley.

This next part is just a general statement... not necessarily specific to you... I know that some of the old VTTW guard is getting sick of me putting some very stark opinions out there about the state of things and my feelings on Dooley and his overall abilities, but I'm also tired of being smacked in the face with "Just calm down, take a step back, take a deep breath, things will be OK, be positive." First of all, I'm not even really pissed about it anymore... I'm getting to the point where I'm apathetic. I will always follow the Vols and root for the Vols, but every day I get a little closer to cancelling all my site subscriptions and putting a closed sign on VTTW where I don't have to pay attention to it anymore until the season starts. That's where UT is really falling short. They are losing people's passion in this way. Don't give me those two words "fairweather fan" either... I've put as much time and interest into UT as I have anything else in my entire life, including sometimes my job and my family. It's not just about bailing out during down cycles... it's about being someone who knows what business is and being able to recognize when things are being poorly run. Folks, most of the other universities in the SEC are kicking out butts in the business of college athletics and college football specifically. Unfortunately, the time of blaming out-of-control unreasonable over-the-top fan expectations is OVER. They (the schools and the conferences) created this monster with the money and the exposure. Things are compressed. What was a five year window in 2000 and a ten year window in 1990 is now a three year window. That's just a fact of the way things are. This is not 1990 when the SEC was a second tier conference and we were thrilled to beat Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl. Our rivals are winning national championships all around us and we haven't won a league title in 13 years. Our league is dominating America and we can't get to the Music City Bowl. We are in the middle of a stunning run of incompetence, yet every day people on every board I read are justifying everything rather than demanding excellence. I happen to like Derek Dooley as a man and have stated this many times... I'd LOVE L-O-V-E it if he could return us to prominence. I've also liked co-workers before but recommended they be terminated for incompetence. We are Tennessee, home of the 108,000 seat stadium and one of the largest alumni bases in the southeast. If we are going to compete with Alabama and Florida, we have to think like Alabama and Florida... not like Louisiana Tech.

Sorry for the rant, and I really don't want to offend anybody, but that's the way I feel.

I am going by his ability to coach LBs, which is his strength. LB play will be improved. I don't know if Sunseri can scheme or adjust, he has not been a coordinator at a high level conference. I think Bisiacca would be great. I guess I choose to be an optimist.  I do agree with ReVOLver in that we need to see results on the field.

I think there should be a fundamental change in basketball, we should cut holes in the floor and recruit midgets!

Regarding Sunseri, I am sure he would be a good hire.  If you have any doubts, just remember that Saban hired him and hasn't fired  him.  That should be all of the validation that you need.  In regards of him being a position coach and not a DC already, I am confident that he fully understands why Bama does what it does defensively, contributes to the game plan weekly, and would do well in a new role of calling the D and making adjustments.  He just needs the opportunity.

The Kiffin hire was a complete disaster.  I don't buy his self-serving crap that 7-6 was a big improvement. I think Fulmer or anyone else could have done that.  Without the firing we probably go 7-6 in 2008 anyway, and neither of those is acceptable at UT.  Hamilton screwed the pooch on that hire.  Did he allow Fulmer to become complacent?  Maybe....I think what bothered me was him giving Fulmer an EXTENSION AND RAISE in the Spring of 2008 and then backing off from that very quickly that Fall, which IMO made Hamilton look weak.  Did he have Fulmer's back or not? 

Did Kiffin run off players because they were not any good, or because they were not "his"?  I think there is an element of this any time you make a coaching change.  Dooley ran off David Oku, who seemed to be pretty talented when he was playing.  I don't know all the players Kiffin ran off, but some of them at the time kind of surprised me, so I am pretty sure it was not just talent.  Maybe some of them just did not trust Kiffin.

Regardless, it's risky any time you change coaches, and the Kiffin hire went about as badly as it could, and Dooley may be nothing more than a caretaker.   Whatever we all may think of 2008, we can agree that it went terribly and that Hamilton ultimately is responsible for that.  And if that was not bad enough, we lost Pearl also.  That is a complete cluster-fizzle.  You cannot do worse IMO.

As for the attitude about the future, my expecations are 8 wins for next season is reasonable.  It's based on what I think is realistic given the talent we have at the moment.  Demanding excellence is fine, no problem with that.  Sometimes excellence is close and we fall short.  I thought this was certainly true as recently as 2006, for instance.  Also, demanding excellance and acknowledging how hard it is to achieve are two different things.

It's perfectly okay to expect 9 wins minimum next year.   That puts pressure on the coaches.   I honestly think we will be 8-4 though.   My main concern would be if we showed significant improvement over the course of the year, not  the exact number of wins.  I would like to see significant progress next year.

So before Kiffin was trying to turn us into USC-east.  Now it seems like the goal is Alabama-North.  I understand we should mimic success.. But I'm just sayin..

I hear the TV monitors in the new football complex will run bammer highlights on a loop. :hurl: :frown:

That's the whole mission of the University it seems... that's why Hamilton hired Dooley, that's why Cheek hired Hart, that's why Sunseri is being hired, and that is why Hart will throw the moon at Kirby Smart if he fires Dooley after 2012. It's not as much trying to be Alabama as it is trying to pick the fruit of Saban's coaching tree.

Somebody wake me up when we a) get players of Alabama's caliber and b) hire Alabama's steroid distributor... err, strength coach.

Let me say one thing bud I dont mind when you express opinions in either fashion or direction and I realize that I might be seen by many as a "sunshine pumper" or "orange kool aid drinker" but truthfully I am at the point that I will not worry about a lot of things, just have a good time with friends and enjoy the wins and moan the losses, but overall I am at the point in my life that i have realized that overall in the grand scheme of things it is just a football thing. 

Overall is Dooley the person to make us forget Fulmer?  I don't know and frankly I aint going to worry about it....

Saban also hired Dooley and didn't fire him. Many of us are starting to wonder whether Dooley was a good hire.

Most of the players than Kiffin ran off were dead weight who were never going to be good players. We were not going to win with those players. Kiffin ran off a lot more players than Dooley, and Kiffin's one recruiting class was worthless as well.

I agree that Kiffin's hire was a bad hire. Never said otherwise since he left.

Giving a coach an extension and a raise for mediocrity is the definition of allowing said coach to become complacent.

If I am placing blame on coaches, I give Fulmer and Kiffin each 40% of the blame and Dooley 20%. But 100% of the blame rests at the feet of MH.

Demanding excellence vs. acknowledging how hard it is to achieve... that last thing is a copout, an excuse, and is the exact mentality that Mike Hamilton perpetuated. fizzle rationalization... this is a historically great program... hell yes it's hard to be successful in the SEC but Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU don't seem to be worrying about how hard it is. Forget the regional recruiting advantages... we live in an era where worldwide communication is instantaneous and we have the biggest recruiting budget in America.

I don't think a coaching change should be made right now... he deserves the third year to see if he can advance us past everything and we need another year of stability (if you can call our situation stable). But, the perception is that he is a coach who is hard to work for and from what I've heard that's more fact than perception. Saban is hard to work for too, but Saban WINS. Derek hasn't. I'm fully prepared to be following a coaching search next December. All you have to do is read between the lines of what Dave Hart is saying and watch the coaching turnover that is going on. Hart is not going to be patient with someone who isn't his guy when King Football is falling off the plate of the hundreds of thousands of people who live and die with it. Bank that. 

This was going to be my next post.

I think a lot of people who say they aren't going to worry about it spend a lot of time telling those who obviously are preoccupied with it that they are wrong.

I am not going to lie... I became a Tennessee fan because they WON. Because of the Sugar Vols and then the run through the 90s when I was in my teens and 20s. Like it or not, the majority of the fan base is now people who were in their 20s and younger during that 1985-1998 era. Those of us who are true Tennessee fans will never stop loving the Vols if for no other reason than those memories, but I will find other things to do with my time and money if they are going to continue to peak at mediocre.

And all of this comes back to the fact that Sunseri is a "meh" hire when it comes to perception... probably the only one that Dooley can make at this point... and likely one that doesn't affect his future one way or the other. A defensive coordinator is not going to make a HC or save a HC in the SEC. It's all on Dooley.

Well if we can't beat Alabama we can at least attempt to destroy the
Continuity of their coaching staff!  :dude: I think the pieces are in place to
Turn the corner.  If not we'll have another thrilling coaching search on our hands! I am very frustrated, too.  I want and expect excellence.  

I think that Hamilton's ass should have been fired minutes after he uttered the words that the coaching job at UT was not one of the best in the nation. Like someone else said, this is a program that has been strong throughout the history of college football. You never heard UT fans, or anyone else for that matter, say such things and now it's parroted on a daily basis on UT message boards. He did the university and the football program a huge disservice by saying that. And why did he say it? Because he was a chickens#^! AD who didn't have it in him to run the program correctly. I agree with you, ReVOLver, Hamilton is why we are where we are.

Another thing: Since when did UT fans turn into such weenies? We should expect greatness from the coaches and players and anyone associated with the program. Even with all the mediocre football played in Knoxville since Fulmer decided to go on permanent vacation after the 2001 season, we are still very high in the rankings with regard to win %, bowl wins, all time wins etc., etc. Now, because of Hamilton and his ridiculous and totally inaccurate statements, we have become a 2nd tier program. Hamilton, Fulmer and to a much, much smaller extent Kiffin are responsible for the shape we are in. Poor ole Dooley probably isn't the guy and definitely should never have been hired but maybe, maybe he will grow into a great coach some day.

CW

by the way, I am old guard and I say keep preaching it, brother!

FWIW, a bammer friend told me earlier today that Sunsieri was/is considered the heir apparent to Kirby Smart. 

If it's true that Sunsieri was in line to succeed the bammer DC, does that change your perception?

It helps mine that he got recruiter of the year.

The thing is, we may not have the $$$ or "genetic enhancements" that bammer seems to have.  Does anyone have a 3-4 year old Yukon they don't need?  Because that might help land a top RB, from what I hear.   :biggrin:

No... you have to know that I have heard the same thing... I read every Vol site known to man except for VolNation. That's why I don't even like Kirby Smart... Nick Saban is the defensive coordinator at Alabama no matter who is the person in title.


Lance Thompson was recruiter of the year once. Meh.


This is true.

I'll say it again:  As great a coach as Saban may be, he is not a good developer of coaches.  Name one Saban protege who is tearing it up elswhere.  Dooley?  Muschamp?  Fisher?  Nope. 

My theory is that Saban micromanages more than anyone, and doesn't trust his assistants with much responsibility.  But somehow they all seem to ride his coattails to bigger and better jobs anyway. :dunno:

That's a questionable assumption.  So you are saying it was all Kiffin evalutating talent and not about a player or two or three leaving because they didn't trust Kiffin?  But I am not going to go back and research it, it's not worth it to me, so we can agree to disagree.


Two part answer.  One, who said we were mediocre in 2007?  We made the SECCG.  Granted, we snuck in.  Much was made of UF and Bammer hammering us that year.  You mean those two programs that won 4 of the last 7 MNCs?  Think maybe that had something to do with it?  2007 was not perfect, but I attribute that to a very young D.  That was the worst D of Chief's career, and it's because we lost so many players from 2006.  Every now and then, you have to rebuild.  The offense was fine in 2007.   But more important, I don't think we were mediocre because we easily could have played for the MNC in 2006.   Were we down a notch?  Definitely.  But I would say we declined from "excellent" to "just good".  Mediocre is overstating the case.  This is probably another one we can agree to disagree on, but I wanted to explain my view in more detail.

Second part...it's not the "acceptance of mediocrity" by Hamilton that bothered me, but the perception that he was responding reactively to every which way the wind blew. I was happy with making the 2007 SECCG but I didn't think Fulmer deserved a freaking extension and raise (like I said...it was a "good" but not "great" season).   IMO, had we won the SECCG then Fulmer would have deserved the raise and extension.   Then I thought Hamilton overeacted to the pressure on Fulmer in fall 2008.   I thought he should have waited till the end of the season, but whatever, the main thing is that it looked to me that he was responding to pressure from fans and alumni and not making up his own mind.   That's not leadership. 



Auburn might be without Cam.  Maybe it's a copout, maybe not, but those who thought firing Fulmer would wave a magic wand and fix things were dead wrong.  I completely disagree that Hamilton perpetuated any rationalization of mediocrity.  I think the opposite is true.  It's almost as if he listened to the youngest, stupidest part of our fanbase to make an "edgy" hire in Kiffin to try and get "some energy" into the program IMO.  And when that failed spectacularly, he stayed true to form and bent entirely the other way and made a "safe" hire (or more likely, hired the only decent candidate he could find on short notice.   

Another point...Auburn lost their longtime coach at the same time (and although he did not win the MNC, he probably should have).  Their hire worked out better than ours (though how much of that was Cam, I don't know).  Let's take the other teams on that list.  Florida arguably has more talent than us and had a season almost as shizzlety, but even Urbie didnt' keep them at that top level forever.  Let's throw in uga...they have for quite awhile been about where we were when Fulmer left.  So of the top 6 programs, 3 currently have issues and I am not even sure Chizik doesn't get axed in a couple of years.

So this is consistent with my view that a coaching change might work out...or it might not.  No one can foresee the future.   It's a bit of a crapshoot.

Put another way, "we are where we are".  I do expect to see significant improvement next year, I agree on that.  I think I disagree that it's easy.  It definitely is not, and I think part of the problem is that a lot of people thought it would be easy last time around. 



I completely agreee with this.  My expectations for next season might be a bit lower, but I do expect significant improvement.

I agree that the statement was wrong and unacceptable.  It pissed me off, and should piss off anyone associated with the program.


I expect greatness.   But I can acknowledge we are a long way from it, and it's still a long road back.  That does not make me a weenie. 

Look at it this way....we went 5-7 this year and lost to Kentucky.  Thus, going either 8-4 or 9-3 next year is a huge improvement and hopefully a step back on the path to 10-2 or 11-1 next season.  I'm not concerned so much about the record, but we had better be competitive in every game.

Whatever the record is next year, it will look a lot better so long as it's on the way to getting back to the SECCG in the next season or two after that.




Even with all the mediocre football played in Knoxville since Fulmer decided to go on permanent vacation after the 2001 season, we are still very high in the rankings with regard to win %, bowl wins, all time wins etc., etc. Now, because of Hamilton and his ridiculous and totally inaccurate statements, we have become a 2nd tier program. Hamilton, Fulmer and to a much, much smaller extent Kiffin are responsible for the shape we are in. Poor ole Dooley probably isn't the guy and definitely should never have been hired but maybe, maybe he will grow into a great coach some day.

CW

by the way, I am old guard and I say keep preaching it, brother!
[/quote]

If you aren't going to go back and research it, you can't call anything a questionable assumption.

Other than that, I'm weary of the discussion and have stuff to do.

I was not directing my comments at anyone in particular, Bandit. I was speaking more to the anonymous fans on other message boards and talk radio who, after Hamilton said what he said, have been poormouthing the program as if UT is some Conference USA program with zero history.

Leadership starts at the top.  "I told you these were not good guys" is not leadership.  IMO.