What if?

[VinnieVOL]

What if we were to lose to UK and Vandy?  Would anyone then go so far to say Dooley's seat is hot? 

I don't know if anyone listened to Hyams yesterday, but his interview with Poole said it all.  Not what was said necessarily, but the tone.  Poole sounds defeated.  And he's supposed to be the leader.  I think that's what really depresses me about this season.. Not. In the number of losses but the way we lose.  Dooley has done some headscratching thing, but this team has quit.  No pride.

That's why I don't think it's that far fetched that we lose to UK.  They are terrible, but if this team has no bowl to play for I think there will be absolutely no effort.

[Inspector Vol]

If there isn't any effort the last two games will make losing to Wyoming look good in comparison.   

[ReVOLver]

I think if we lose to Vandy and UK then Dooley's seat is hotter but I think he will still be the coach next year unless there is something beneath the surface that we don't know about (like if Hart has a bona-fide showstopper candidate that he knows he can get or if there are problems between Hart and Dooley.)

If we lose to either of the next two teams I will change my opinion about him getting at least five years no matter what to getting at least three years no matter what. We are Tennessee, we aren't supposed to lose to Vanderbilt or Kentucky and neither team is more talented than we are.

Short of bringing in a huge splash of a hire... like a Chris Petersen type of splash... firing him this year will do more harm that good. He has to have at least one more year to recruit and play with his guys no matter what happens in the last two games.

[BigOrange Maniac]

I've resolved myself to losing to Vanderbilt. But I'm afraid we're going to go out without any fire and get whooped. If Vandy comes into Neyland and wins by any more than a TD, I'm going to be very pissed off. If we lose to UK on top of that, I'll be leading the charge to fire Dooley.

[BanditVol]

Any hot seat will be next season IMO and should be.  If we close these two games very poorly, it will be a hot seat indeed.  If we win out, next year will be the decider.  It's that simple IMO.

Having said that, I don't see how this team could be unmotivated to face vandy.  It's vandy...not our biggest rival but an old and bitter one, and we are definitely their biggest rival.  Plus there is a bowl game and potential winning season at stake.  If these players have any pride at all, they will put it all on the line.

Past is not the present or future.  The effort or lack thereof vs. Arkansas does not automatically doom us vs. Vandy.  This team's destiny is in their own hands.  They will either rise to the occasion or not, but it IS up to them.  It is NOT dictated by external circumstances, like vandy is a bit better than usual, we have injuries, we are rebuilding, etc.  What matters is not all that...it's what they DO this Saturday.  And they will either decide to do something, or not.

[Screaming Eagle Dad]

I hate the thought of losing to Vanderbilt. HATE IT! But in my gut I think we lose by two touchdowns. I hope my gut feeling is wrong, I really, really do.

[VoLynteer]

Shame on all y'all..  ..   don't tell me Dooley has given up on the team...the only ones giving up are the fans.  Shame shame shame!!!  Gosh we turn on our own so quickly. 

[ReVOLver]

Shame on all y'all..  ..   don't tell me Dooley has given up on the team...the only ones giving up are the fans.  Shame shame shame!!!  Gosh we turn on our own so quickly. 

There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that suggests that Dooley has lost at least part of this team. There are rumors of favoritism towards Da'Rick Rogers and a general lack of respect for Dooley by a bunch of players. I don't think the only people giving up are fans. The team has given up in the second half every game since Bray got hurt.

The acknowledgement of the possible visual evidence of this is not disloyal, it just ... is.

One thing is for sure... cooler heads must prevail on the "fire Dooley" business no matter what happens the next two weeks. Two wins could make us all feel better. Two losses will make a lot of us throw up our hands. Either way Dooley HAS TO get at least one more year or our program steps back another five.

[Oldvol75]

My way of thinking goes with leadership, or specifically, lack of. Kids like Poole never had a leader to look up to and follow. None of these upper classmen know how to win and really what it takes to win. That's why I think CDD is trying to change the mindset of these kids. They have to learn to win, I've seen it too many times at different levels. Kids HAVE to LEARN to win! I've been there and have the tee shirts to prove it!

It's going to take some time and patience!

[Jedi Master]

My admittedly outsider's opinion, based on years of observing similar circumstances at other schools, is that CDD will not be fired regardless of what happens in the last two games of this season.   

However, next year, CDD will be on a hot seat, also regardless of what happens in the last two games of this season.  Next year, he will need to get that ever-elusive 1st signature win, or there will be a groundswell of discontent at all levels of the Orange Nation.  If you doubt this, just imagine feeling the same way you do now about UT's football program, but a year from now.  That would be waiting a long time for validation of your hope and optimism about the trajectory of your program.

Regarding the VU game, I think you guys do win this Saturday.  It just seems that every time VU gets barely good enough to challenge UT in your annual game with them (which isn't very often to begin with), that UT actually focuses on VU, doesn't take them for granted, and ends up playing well enough to win comfortably.   I expect the same this weekend.  I'll say 27-13, Vols.

[Black Diamond Vol]

My admittedly outsider's opinion, based on years of observing similar circumstances at other schools, is that CDD will not be fired regardless of what happens in the last two games of this season.   

However, next year, CDD will be on a hot seat, also regardless of what happens in the last two games of this season.  Next year, he will need to get that ever-elusive 1st signature win, or there will be a groundswell of discontent at all levels of the Orange Nation.  If you doubt this, just imagine feeling the same way you do now about UT's football program, but a year from now.  That would be waiting a long time for validation of your hope and optimism about the trajectory of your program.

Regarding the VU game, I think you guys do win this Saturday.  It just seems that every time VU gets barely good enough to challenge UT in your annual game with them (which isn't very often to begin with), that UT actually focuses on VU, doesn't take them for granted, and ends up playing well enough to win comfortably.   I expect the same this weekend.  I'll say 27-13, Vols.

I pretty much agree with this.  Dooley's honeymoon lasts through next season, but no further.  Even though I see a lot of troubling things on the field this season I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt this year, considering that talent-wise, we were just a middle of the pack team to begin with, and all the injuries pretty much turned us into a bottom feeder.  Plus, our numbers are still down, and we got stuck with the hardest possible cross-division draw.  Nick Saban may not have coaxed any more wins out of this team this year. 

But next season, there are no more excuses.  We return 18 starters, we're back up to a full 85 man roster, we get UF, Arkansas and Bama at home, and we trade LSU for MSU (I guess, the new post-expansion schedule may change all that).  No more excuses.  I expect 9 wins next year, including at least 5 in the SEC.  If we can't do this, Dooley needs to go.  FTR, I really like the guy, and I'm rooting for him.  But this mediocrity can't continue.

[BanditVol]

I pretty much agree with this.  Dooley's honeymoon lasts through next season, but no further.  Even though I see a lot of troubling things on the field this season I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt this year, considering that talent-wise, we were just a middle of the pack team to begin with, and all the injuries pretty much turned us into a bottom feeder.  Plus, our numbers are still down, and we got stuck with the hardest possible cross-division draw.  Nick Saban may not have coaxed any more wins out of this team this year. 

But next season, there are no more excuses.  We return 18 starters, we're back up to a full 85 man roster, we get UF, Arkansas and Bama at home, and we trade LSU for MSU (I guess, the new post-expansion schedule may change all that).  No more excuses.  I expect 9 wins next year, including at least 5 in the SEC.  If we can't do this, Dooley needs to go.  FTR, I really like the guy, and I'm rooting for him.  But this mediocrity can't continue.

Co-sign. 

And let me say to Jedi that I appreciate your POV as an opposing fan and relative outsider.  My take on this game is more similar to yours, but it seems most fans don't agree.  I have not lost faith in this team yet.  I think they can do it.

LOL!  And I am talking about beating vandy.  Shows how far we have fallen, but you know what?  This is still far from how bad it CAN be.  There is still plenty to play for!  I just hope the players feel that way.  I certainly do.

[PirateVOL]

I've resolved myself to losing to Vanderbilt. But I'm afraid we're going to go out without any fire and get whooped. If Vandy comes into Neyland and wins by any more than a TD, I'm going to be very pissed off. If we lose to UK on top of that, I'll be leading the charge to fire Dooley.

I think just the opposite.  I think we come out on fire, for a lot of reasons.

[BigOrange Maniac]

One thing is for sure... cooler heads must prevail on the "fire Dooley" business no matter what happens the next two weeks. Two wins could make us all feel better. Two losses will make a lot of us throw up our hands. Either way Dooley HAS TO get at least one more year or our program steps back another five.

If Tennessee were to get beat by Vandy by two or more touchdowns and then follow that up with a loss to Kentucky, I would be ready to go ahead and make a change. A setback for the program? Absolutely. But better to go ahead and get it over with than to labor through another year or two and then make the change that would set back the program...because, IMO, if the above scenario played out, there would be virtually no hope of Dooley resurrecting his chances to succeed at Tennessee. Even if we could write off this year as a fluke (which would be hard to do if we were dominated by Vandy and lost to UK), he would have completely lost the fans and would never get a lot of them back. The only argument I can see for delaying the inevitable would be that by keeping Dooley for a couple of years he could recruit enough to stabilize the program before the change is made.

Hopefully this thing ends on a good note and the "what if?" question never has to be answered. I like the way Dooley has gone about his business and I like the things he has to say...I want him to succeed here and be our coach for a long time. But I'm not willing to stand idly by and watch this program continue to be the laughingstock of the SEC because we have a well-spoken coach who can't cut it in the big leagues. Some might say that there's no way two games can definitively answer the question of whether Dooley is cut out for the job. I would say that, in this scenario, two games is plenty enough to answer the question.

[VinnieVOL]

In asking this question out and about I've been surprised at how many people have said "if we lose both games, he should be fired".  More people feel that way than I expected.

[Inspector Vol]

The only argument I can see for delaying the inevitable would be that by keeping Dooley for a couple of years he could recruit enough to stabilize the program before the change is made.

I suspect this ^ is the reason revolver said what he did. We really really need to keep this coming class intact. I don't think we can hire anyone else for the next year or two. He is upgrading the talent so we are restocking the shelves enough to be competitive. if we aren't competitive next year then he will have fired himself and not the other way around which would make it easier to hire someone else. That and Hamilton is gone now.

[ReVOLver]

I suspect this ^ is the reason revolver said what he did. We really really need to keep this coming class intact. I don't think we can hire anyone else for the next year or two. He is upgrading the talent so we are restocking the shelves enough to be competitive. if we aren't competitive next year then he will have fired himself and not the other way around which would make it easier to hire someone else. That and Hamilton is gone now.

Yes.

Assuming he is NOT the guy, one more year of mediocrity to allow him to finish off what looks like a third solid recruiting class in a row will certainly be better than setting the program back another five years. If he is fired this year, this class will be a wreck and we will lose a lot of last year's class to transfer because not a lot of them are redshirting. And we will be right back where we started when he was hired and then the next guy will be under the gun in two years when the natives get restless and the AD will have a hard time filling the job because the perception will be "You fired a NC coach, then the next guy ran away after a year, then you only gave the next guy two years."

Cooler heads have to prevail. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The only way I would disagree is if we lose the last two and then Hart fires him and announces two days later that the new coach is Chris Petersen or Nick Saban. Think that's going to happen? Nope.

[BigOrange Maniac]

The only way I would disagree is if we lose the last two and then Hart fires him and announces two days later that the new coach is Chris Petersen or Nick Saban. Think that's going to happen? Nope.

You don't think Saban or Petersen would come to Tennessee? Please. This is Tennessee. Facilities, fan base, etc. 

[ReVOLver]

You don't think Saban or Petersen would come to Tennessee? Please. This is Tennessee. Facilities, fan base, etc. 

This just in... Chris Petersen knows someone who is related to someone who has property in East Tennessee and once had a nooner with a Vol cheerleader. Book it! 

[VinnieVOL]

I heard that Hart has agreed to install orange field turf and that this was Petersen's only stipulation.

[ReVOLver]

I heard that Hart has agreed to install orange field turf and that this was Petersen's only stipulation.

Well, that and the BIGGEST SCIENTOLOGY CHURCH IN THE WORLD right in the middle of campus.

[FLVOL]

I agree with the recruiting slant. We just can't afford to cash in Dooley's chips. He is getting a pretty solid class together, and IF he pulls them all in, we will be competitive again.

If Dooley is replaced, so will the recruited class, and shizzlety recruiting classes was the demise of Fulmer.  We just need to be calm and suck up the suck....

[EmerilVOL]

What some may not know about what was going on in Knoxville was that there were lots of times where Kiffin was skating on thin ice.  Why do you think the athletic department assigned an associate athletic director to "watch out for" the football team?  It was not as much the recruiting practices but the "half cocked" attitude of Kiffin and Company.  In short the actions of Kiffin and Company set this football program back about 2 years further than when he took over.  Dooley's advancement with this team is all based upon the facts that the program was in more disarray than when Fulmer was let go.  IF Kiffin had stayed we might have not had the problems (but we probably would have been on five years probation and a loss of scholarships amounting to 30 over the five years). 

Dooley is doing well with what he has to work with and it is a testament to his attention to detail and his work ethic.

[ReVOLver]

Dooley is doing well with what he has to work with and it is a testament to his attention to detail and his work ethic.

Will your opinion of that change if we lose to Vandy? Because this team shouldn't lose to Vandy. Tennessee should NEVER lose to Vandy in football, especially at home.

[RockinGrannyVol]

Personally, for me, if we lose to both, so be it.  I think we lose to Vandy, even if Bray is back.  I don't see us losing to Kentucky.  I've realized so much in the last year what is really important in life and it isn't UT football...  but outside of that subject, I like Dooley, I support Dooley.   I think if anyone, fans or UT, puts him on the hot seat before 2013, they are fools.  First, we probably played one of the toughest schedules in the country this year with 5 ranked teams in a row (GA, Bama, LSU, SC, Arkansas) -- most of them in the top 10 - #1 and #2 back to back - unbelievable.   Secondly, he needs at least 3 years of his recruits to build the team that will be competative.  Thirdly, I don't think any coach in the country could have done much more with this team considering the schedule, youth, lack of depth,  and injuries (making the depth a bigger issue).   

The biggest issue I have with the fans, including my Dad, is how they all know why Dooley is doing what he is doing, what it's doing to the team, etc etc.....nobody knows what's going on in that locker room but the players and the coaches...I say, give them a BREAK!

Just my take on things.  They will get better count on it.