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Author Topic: Sunseri and Biasiacca (sp?) would be great  (Read 13832 times)
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CobbWebb
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 09:21:57 EST »

I think that Hamilton's ass should have been fired minutes after he uttered the words that the coaching job at UT was not one of the best in the nation. Like someone else said, this is a program that has been strong throughout the history of college football. You never heard UT fans, or anyone else for that matter, say such things and now it's parroted on a daily basis on UT message boards. He did the university and the football program a huge disservice by saying that. And why did he say it? Because he was a chickens#^! AD who didn't have it in him to run the program correctly. I agree with you, ReVOLver, Hamilton is why we are where we are.

Another thing: Since when did UT fans turn into such weenies? We should expect greatness from the coaches and players and anyone associated with the program. Even with all the mediocre football played in Knoxville since Fulmer decided to go on permanent vacation after the 2001 season, we are still very high in the rankings with regard to win %, bowl wins, all time wins etc., etc. Now, because of Hamilton and his ridiculous and totally inaccurate statements, we have become a 2nd tier program. Hamilton, Fulmer and to a much, much smaller extent Kiffin are responsible for the shape we are in. Poor ole Dooley probably isn't the guy and definitely should never have been hired but maybe, maybe he will grow into a great coach some day.

CW

by the way, I am old guard and I say keep preaching it, brother!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 09:24:02 EST by CobbWebb » Logged
BanditVol
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 09:38:24 EST »

FWIW, a bammer friend told me earlier today that Sunsieri was/is considered the heir apparent to Kirby Smart. 
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BanditVol
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2012, 09:41:13 EST »

And all of this comes back to the fact that Sunseri is a "meh" hire when it comes to perception... probably the only one that Dooley can make at this point... and likely one that doesn't affect his future one way or the other. A defensive coordinator is not going to make a HC or save a HC in the SEC. It's all on Dooley.

If it's true that Sunsieri was in line to succeed the bammer DC, does that change your perception?

It helps mine that he got recruiter of the year.

The thing is, we may not have the $$$ or "genetic enhancements" that bammer seems to have.  Does anyone have a 3-4 year old Yukon they don't need?  Because that might help land a top RB, from what I hear.   
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2012, 09:49:32 EST »

If it's true that Sunsieri was in line to succeed the bammer DC, does that change your perception?

No... you have to know that I have heard the same thing... I read every Vol site known to man except for VolNation. That's why I don't even like Kirby Smart... Nick Saban is the defensive coordinator at Alabama no matter who is the person in title.

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It helps mine that he got recruiter of the year.

Lance Thompson was recruiter of the year once. Meh.

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The thing is, we may not have the $$$ or "genetic enhancements" that bammer seems to have.  Does anyone have a 3-4 year old Yukon they don't need?  Because that might help land a top RB, from what I hear.   

This is true.
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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2012, 09:53:44 EST »

I'll say it again:  As great a coach as Saban may be, he is not a good developer of coaches.  Name one Saban protege who is tearing it up elswhere.  Dooley?  Muschamp?  Fisher?  Nope. 

My theory is that Saban micromanages more than anyone, and doesn't trust his assistants with much responsibility.  But somehow they all seem to ride his coattails to bigger and better jobs anyway.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2012, 10:10:57 EST »

Most of the players than Kiffin ran off were dead weight who were never going to be good players. We were not going to win with those players.

That's a questionable assumption.  So you are saying it was all Kiffin evalutating talent and not about a player or two or three leaving because they didn't trust Kiffin?  But I am not going to go back and research it, it's not worth it to me, so we can agree to disagree.

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Giving a coach an extension and a raise for mediocrity is the definition of allowing said coach to become complacent.

Two part answer.  One, who said we were mediocre in 2007?  We made the SECCG.  Granted, we snuck in.  Much was made of UF and Bammer hammering us that year.  You mean those two programs that won 4 of the last 7 MNCs?  Think maybe that had something to do with it?  2007 was not perfect, but I attribute that to a very young D.  That was the worst D of Chief's career, and it's because we lost so many players from 2006.  Every now and then, you have to rebuild.  The offense was fine in 2007.   But more important, I don't think we were mediocre because we easily could have played for the MNC in 2006.   Were we down a notch?  Definitely.  But I would say we declined from "excellent" to "just good".  Mediocre is overstating the case.  This is probably another one we can agree to disagree on, but I wanted to explain my view in more detail.

Second part...it's not the "acceptance of mediocrity" by Hamilton that bothered me, but the perception that he was responding reactively to every which way the wind blew. I was happy with making the 2007 SECCG but I didn't think Fulmer deserved a freaking extension and raise (like I said...it was a "good" but not "great" season).   IMO, had we won the SECCG then Fulmer would have deserved the raise and extension.   Then I thought Hamilton overeacted to the pressure on Fulmer in fall 2008.   I thought he should have waited till the end of the season, but whatever, the main thing is that it looked to me that he was responding to pressure from fans and alumni and not making up his own mind.   That's not leadership. 


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Demanding excellence vs. acknowledging how hard it is to achieve... that last thing is a copout, an excuse, and is the exact mentality that Mike Hamilton perpetuated. fizzle rationalization... this is a historically great program... hell yes it's hard to be successful in the SEC but Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU don't seem to be worrying about how hard it is.

Auburn might be without Cam.  Maybe it's a copout, maybe not, but those who thought firing Fulmer would wave a magic wand and fix things were dead wrong.  I completely disagree that Hamilton perpetuated any rationalization of mediocrity.  I think the opposite is true.  It's almost as if he listened to the youngest, stupidest part of our fanbase to make an "edgy" hire in Kiffin to try and get "some energy" into the program IMO.  And when that failed spectacularly, he stayed true to form and bent entirely the other way and made a "safe" hire (or more likely, hired the only decent candidate he could find on short notice.   

Another point...Auburn lost their longtime coach at the same time (and although he did not win the MNC, he probably should have).  Their hire worked out better than ours (though how much of that was Cam, I don't know).  Let's take the other teams on that list.  Florida arguably has more talent than us and had a season almost as shizzlety, but even Urbie didnt' keep them at that top level forever.  Let's throw in uga...they have for quite awhile been about where we were when Fulmer left.  So of the top 6 programs, 3 currently have issues and I am not even sure Chizik doesn't get axed in a couple of years.

So this is consistent with my view that a coaching change might work out...or it might not.  No one can foresee the future.   It's a bit of a crapshoot.

Put another way, "we are where we are".  I do expect to see significant improvement next year, I agree on that.  I think I disagree that it's easy.  It definitely is not, and I think part of the problem is that a lot of people thought it would be easy last time around. 


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I don't think a coaching change should be made right now... he deserves the third year to see if he can advance us past everything and we need another year of stability (if you can call our situation stable). But, the perception is that he is a coach who is hard to work for and from what I've heard that's more fact than perception. Saban is hard to work for too, but Saban WINS. Derek hasn't. I'm fully prepared to be following a coaching search next December. All you have to do is read between the lines of what Dave Hart is saying and watch the coaching turnover that is going on. Hart is not going to be patient with someone who isn't his guy when King Football is falling off the plate of the hundreds of thousands of people who live and die with it. Bank that. 

I completely agreee with this.  My expectations for next season might be a bit lower, but I do expect significant improvement.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2012, 10:19:45 EST »

I think that Hamilton's ass should have been fired minutes after he uttered the words that the coaching job at UT was not one of the best in the nation.


I agree that the statement was wrong and unacceptable.  It pissed me off, and should piss off anyone associated with the program.

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Another thing: Since when did UT fans turn into such weenies? We should expect greatness from the coaches and players and anyone associated with the program.

I expect greatness.   But I can acknowledge we are a long way from it, and it's still a long road back.  That does not make me a weenie. 

Look at it this way....we went 5-7 this year and lost to Kentucky.  Thus, going either 8-4 or 9-3 next year is a huge improvement and hopefully a step back on the path to 10-2 or 11-1 next season.  I'm not concerned so much about the record, but we had better be competitive in every game.

Whatever the record is next year, it will look a lot better so long as it's on the way to getting back to the SECCG in the next season or two after that.




Even with all the mediocre football played in Knoxville since Fulmer decided to go on permanent vacation after the 2001 season, we are still very high in the rankings with regard to win %, bowl wins, all time wins etc., etc. Now, because of Hamilton and his ridiculous and totally inaccurate statements, we have become a 2nd tier program. Hamilton, Fulmer and to a much, much smaller extent Kiffin are responsible for the shape we are in. Poor ole Dooley probably isn't the guy and definitely should never have been hired but maybe, maybe he will grow into a great coach some day.

CW

by the way, I am old guard and I say keep preaching it, brother!
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ReVOLver
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2012, 10:20:58 EST »

That's a questionable assumption.  So you are saying it was all Kiffin evalutating talent and not about a player or two or three leaving because they didn't trust Kiffin?  But I am not going to go back and research it, it's not worth it to me, so we can agree to disagree.

Two part answer.  One, who said we were mediocre in 2007?  We made the SECCG.  Granted, we snuck in.  Much was made of UF and Bammer hammering us that year.  You mean those two programs that won 4 of the last 7 MNCs?  Think maybe that had something to do with it?  2007 was not perfect, but I attribute that to a very young D.  That was the worst D of Chief's career, and it's because we lost so many players from 2006.  Every now and then, you have to rebuild.  The offense was fine in 2007.   But more important, I don't think we were mediocre because we easily could have played for the MNC in 2006.   Were we down a notch?  Definitely.  But I would say we declined from "excellent" to "just good".  Mediocre is overstating the case.  This is probably another one we can agree to disagree on, but I wanted to explain my view in more detail.

Second part...it's not the "acceptance of mediocrity" by Hamilton that bothered me, but the perception that he was responding reactively to every which way the wind blew. I was happy with making the 2007 SECCG but I didn't think Fulmer deserved a freaking extension and raise (like I said...it was a "good" but not "great" season).   IMO, had we won the SECCG then Fulmer would have deserved the raise and extension.   Then I thought Hamilton overeacted to the pressure on Fulmer in fall 2008.   I thought he should have waited till the end of the season, but whatever, the main thing is that it looked to me that he was responding to pressure from fans and alumni and not making up his own mind.   That's not leadership. 


Auburn might be without Cam.  Maybe it's a copout, maybe not, but those who thought firing Fulmer would wave a magic wand and fix things were dead wrong.  I completely disagree that Hamilton perpetuated any rationalization of mediocrity.  I think the opposite is true.  It's almost as if he listened to the youngest, stupidest part of our fanbase to make an "edgy" hire in Kiffin to try and get "some energy" into the program IMO.  And when that failed spectacularly, he stayed true to form and bent entirely the other way and made a "safe" hire (or more likely, hired the only decent candidate he could find on short notice.   

Another point...Auburn lost their longtime coach at the same time (and although he did not win the MNC, he probably should have).  Their hire worked out better than ours (though how much of that was Cam, I don't know).  Let's take the other teams on that list.  Florida arguably has more talent than us and had a season almost as shizzlety, but even Urbie didnt' keep them at that top level forever.  Let's throw in uga...they have for quite awhile been about where we were when Fulmer left.  So of the top 6 programs, 3 currently have issues and I am not even sure Chizik doesn't get axed in a couple of years.

So this is consistent with my view that a coaching change might work out...or it might not.  No one can foresee the future.   It's a bit of a crapshoot.

Put another way, "we are where we are".  I do expect to see significant improvement next year, I agree on that.  I think I disagree that it's easy.  It definitely is not, and I think part of the problem is that a lot of people thought it would be easy last time around. 


I completely agreee with this.  My expectations for next season might be a bit lower, but I do expect significant improvement.

If you aren't going to go back and research it, you can't call anything a questionable assumption.

Other than that, I'm weary of the discussion and have stuff to do.
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CobbWebb
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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2012, 11:20:30 EST »

I was not directing my comments at anyone in particular, Bandit. I was speaking more to the anonymous fans on other message boards and talk radio who, after Hamilton said what he said, have been poormouthing the program as if UT is some Conference USA program with zero history.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 03:53:27 EST »

I was not directing my comments at anyone in particular, Bandit. I was speaking more to the anonymous fans on other message boards and talk radio who, after Hamilton said what he said, have been poormouthing the program as if UT is some Conference USA program with zero history.

Leadership starts at the top.  "I told you these were not good guys" is not leadership.  IMO.
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"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.”  G. Patton
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