Obviously a rough day here in Chattanooga...

[Black Diamond Vol]

Clearly I was naive, but I didn't think something like this could happen here.   I always just assumed that domestic terror would be a "big city" problem.  

Your thoughts swirl and change hourly at times like this.  But my initial reaction is that it's time to exercise my 2nd amendment rights.  I've never really been a big "gun guy", even during my time in the Service. But maybe it's time that changed.  

[Tnphil]

Sad...sad...sad. Prayers to the families.

I've said it many times.......when they start hitting small town USA it can and will bring America to its knees. It's starting and it will continue. Book it.

[VOLMAN]

 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I was in Chattanooga last weekend for my nieces's wedding, BDV.  Drove through that area a couple of times.

Thoughts and prayers, and a hope that the powers that be in this once great nation will wake up soon and understand that terrorism still is very much a real problem for America and the rest of the world. 

[Creek Walker]

I'm probably what a politician like John McCain would call a "crazy," but I went out the evening of 9/11 to purchase ammo. The shelves were empty, as apparently there were a lot of other crazies thinking the same thing. But I made it a point at that time that I would obtain a carry permit and arm myself. To be honest, I DON'T carry a lot more than I DO, but I want that option.

I hope this will be a wakeup call -- although I know it won't be. These people who are sympathetic to the Muslim wing nuts are in every city, in every state. Until we cut the head off the snake, the threat to us on our soil will continue to escalate.

[Clockwork Orange]

I'm probably what a politician like John McCain would call a "crazy," but I went out the evening of 9/11 to purchase ammo. The shelves were empty, as apparently there were a lot of other crazies thinking the same thing. But I made it a point at that time that I would obtain a carry permit and arm myself. To be honest, I DON'T carry a lot more than I DO, but I want that option.

I hope this will be a wakeup call -- although I know it won't be. These people who are sympathetic to the Muslim wing nuts are in every city, in every state. Until we cut the head off the snake, the threat to us on our soil will continue to escalate.

What do you believe to be the head of the snake, and how would we cut it off?

If it would create a nightmare for the board, answer me in a PM instead of here . . .

[HerbTarlekVol]

What do you believe to be the head of the snake, and how would we cut it off?

If it would create a nightmare for the board, answer me in a PM instead of here . . .

First of all, we need to allow the military to carry firearms while they are on duty stateside.  Fort Hood, the DC Naval Yard, Chattanooga - none of those military personnel were armed because they aren't allowed to be.  Had they been the outcome could have been totally different.  The only military allowed to carry firearms (when not training, and then they are issued weapons only while at the firing ranges) are MPs. 

This needs to change. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I'm probably what a politician like John McCain would call a "crazy," but I went out the evening of 9/11 to purchase ammo. The shelves were empty, as apparently there were a lot of other crazies thinking the same thing. But I made it a point at that time that I would obtain a carry permit and arm myself. To be honest, I DON'T carry a lot more than I DO, but I want that option.

I hope this will be a wakeup call -- although I know it won't be. These people who are sympathetic to the Muslim wing nuts are in every city, in every state. Until we cut the head off the snake, the threat to us on our soil will continue to escalate.

I'm right there with you, CW.  I definitely would never be on McCain's Christmas card list. 

And like you, I obtained my CCP because I want to have the option of carrying to protect myself and my family.  And like you, I don't carry all of the time, but I do at other times.  It's my second amendment right - period dot period. 

And "gun free zones" are nothing more than an invitation for criminals to have their way. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

And case in point, here is the picture of the front door of the recruiting center that the animal in Chattanooga shot up yesterday.  This is real.  It's not a photoshop.  Anybody notice anything about it? 

[VOLMAN]

First of all, we need to allow the military to carry firearms while they are on duty stateside.  Fort Hood, the DC Naval Yard, Chattanooga - none of those military personnel were armed because they aren't allowed to be.  Had they been the outcome could have been totally different.  The only military allowed to carry firearms (when not training, and then they are issued weapons only while at the firing ranges) are MPs. 

This needs to change. 

the outside, arming everyone on an installation would probably create more issues than it would solve....my son just separated and he was an MP and he had to deal with a lot of well-trained killers who often got violent but who were unarmed thankfully. It's places such as were hit yesterday, remote satellite locations, that need some security.        

[HerbTarlekVol]

the outside, arming everyone on an installation would probably create more issues than it would solve....my son just separated and he was an MP and he had to deal with a lot of well-trained killers who often got violent but who were unarmed thankfully. It's places such as were hit yesterday, remote satellite locations, that need some security.        

Didn't say arm everybody.  Obviously there are some, particularly the young and new recruits, who are still learning to handle weapons. 

But arming experienced and trained soldiers, airmen, and sailors is something that needs to be done, IMO, and as you say particularly where they are away from the "safety of numbers". 

[VOLMAN]

 

[HerbTarlekVol]

He's doing well, thank you.  Billy is now a CPT and has a command with the 11th Signal at Fort Hood, TX.  

They love living in Texas, and have bought a house in a small town halfway between Killeen (where Ft. Hood is located) and Austin, which is where my daughter in law, who is a nurse manager with one of the HCA hospitals there, works.  They have a son (Little Billy IV) who is now 18 months old.  

While Jarrell (the town they live in, population around 1,200) is just at 1,000 miles away from us, it's a whole lot closer than is South Korea, which is where Billy thought for a long time they would be going after he finished the Captain's Career Course at Fort Gordon in April of '14.  We aren't complaining about 1,000 miles. West Point was 800 miles from us, so it's really not all that much further this time.  We were spoiled by the 4 years he spent at Fort Campbell, which was about a 3 1/2 hour drive for us.  

Thanks for asking.  We are going to be going down and spend a couple of weeks with them in September.  I am going to see a couple of high school football games in Texas and see Baylor play at their new McClane Stadium - which is an incredible facility - while we are there.  They are about 70 miles south of Waco.   

And I have another grandson, by the way.  My daughter has a little boy who just turned 2 in June, and she is expecting another in February.  Being a "Gramps" is fun.  

[VOLMAN]

while I missed the green hills and lakes of TN, the people in Texas were great. I made friends with lots of Jack Rabbits (dadgum things were everywhere).       

[BanditVol]

Sad...sad...sad. Prayers to the families.

I've said it many times.......when they start hitting small town USA it can and will bring America to its knees. It's starting and it will continue. Book it.

Hm, well my take may be different than many.  This is in no way to understate the tragedy to those who lost their lives and their families, and I think this is a horrible thing.

But I hardly think it will bring us to our knees.  It will likely scare some middle aged and elderly women and a couple weak-kneed male friends of mine, but come on.  Four people.

Our country survived a civil war in which 620,000 died on both sides, but that ended slavery.  We defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japanese at a cost of 278,000 dead.  We helped defeat the Germans in WW1 at a cost of about 117,000 dead.  We outlasted the nuclear-armed Soviet Union.

Is this all they got?   fizzle em anyway.   

So I am going to respectfully suggest that this will be far from bringing us to our knees.  If this sort of thing increases, it will only unite us like we were briefly after 911. 

[Jedi Master]

My prayers go out to the families and friends of the victims.

I work in downtown Chattanooga and live in Hixson. 

This incident seems to be lone-wolf domestic terrorism, inspired by foreign terrorism (i.e., ISIS).  Unfortunately, we will likely see more "inspired" domestic terrorism.  We already have seen Muslim sympathizers commit domestic terrorism in the UK, France, Tunisia, Bali, and other countries.  All it takes is one impressionable loser willing to commit death by cop, in the name of jihad. 

That said, we're not going to be passive victims.  I have my CCP as well, and encourage others to pursue theirs.  No clue what the jihadists have against us 'noogans, but we aren't going down without a fight for our liberty.  We will now be more aware, more vigilant, more prepared to take actions to protect ourselves and our loved ones.  It's a mean world out there. 

[Creek Walker]

The head would be terrorist organizations abroad that inspire homegrown terrorism, like Jedi alluded to. We have not done nearly enough to address the threat of ISIS. The longer we allow the free reign in the Middle East, the more homegrown nut jobs they'll inspire not just here but in the rest of the Western world. I'm not sure what the easiest answer to that is. Putting boots on the ground to stand in the way of ISIS is no one's wish, I'm pretty sure. And the deaths of innocents is no one's wish, I'm sure. I don't know that it's impossible to combat ISIS without one or both of those things happening. But our passive approach is the wrong approach, I fear.

I think it's absurd that we don't allow weapons on our military bases. We're asking these men and women to train with guns in preparation to fight for this nation, and then we don't allow them to carry weapons to defend themselves while they're stateside?!? Think about it like this: Almost every man and woman in this country has a RIGHT, written into the Constitution and upheld by the courts, to carry a gun to defend themselves. In fact, the Supreme Court rulings involving D.C. and Chicago struck down some of the last places where citizens of the U.S. could legally be denied the right to defend themselves. Yet we're asking our military to give up rights enjoyed by the rest of the nation while they're enlisted? Not to mention the numerous incidents and studies that have proven that gun-free zones just don't work.

And to the point Bandit made, I don't think anyone is suggesting that this single incident will drive America to its knees. But is this the official dawning of a new age in America? One where we have to worry about terrorism every time we go into a public place? Maybe not; we worried that was the case in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, and it turned out not to be. But there was a difference then: the terrorists who managed to slip into the American mainstream were still focused on coordinated jobs that would kill as many people as possible. Our new laws and intelligence in the aftermath of 9/11 made that nearly impossible. But ISIS is a different animal than al Qaeda, and they'll inspire a different breed than al Qaeda. IF lone wolves start to become emboldened, we'll rue the day…and if it can happen in Chattanooga, Tennessee, it can happen pretty well anywhere. I'm not saying it will, but imagine if America had to deal with car bombings and other terroristic incidents on a regular basis like Israel has dealt with over the years. It would cripple us — it would cripple our psyche if it didn't cripple us in the most literal sense.

[LouisVOL]

First of all, we need to allow the military to carry firearms while they are on duty stateside.  Fort Hood, the DC Naval Yard, Chattanooga - none of those military personnel were armed because they aren't allowed to be.  Had they been the outcome could have been totally different.  The only military allowed to carry firearms (when not training, and then they are issued weapons only while at the firing ranges) are MPs. 

This needs to change. 

[Tnphil]

Hm, well my take may be different than many.  This is in no way to understate the tragedy to those who lost their lives and their families, and I think this is a horrible thing.

But I hardly think it will bring us to our knees.  It will likely scare some middle aged and elderly women and a couple weak-kneed male friends of mine, but come on.  Four people.

Our country survived a civil war in which 620,000 died on both sides, but that ended slavery.  We defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japanese at a cost of 278,000 dead.  We helped defeat the Germans in WW1 at a cost of about 117,000 dead.  We outlasted the nuclear-armed Soviet Union.

Is this all they got?   fizzle em anyway.   








So I am going to respectfully suggest that this will be far from bringing us to our knees.  If this sort of thing increases, it will only unite us like we were briefly after 911. 

9-11 brought the U.S. to it's knees for several days/weeks....When massive damage starts happening in small town USA that doesn't have the resources to handle it like large cities do then yes it will bring us to our knees. I didn't say destroy us...I said bring us to our knees. It's coming because we are allowing it too.

[Tnphil]

First of all, we need to allow the military to carry firearms while they are on duty stateside.  Fort Hood, the DC Naval Yard, Chattanooga - none of those military personnel were armed because they aren't allowed to be.  Had they been the outcome could have been totally different.  The only military allowed to carry firearms (when not training, and then they are issued weapons only while at the firing ranges) are MPs. 

This needs to change. 

Exactly.....My son in law who is a decorated Marine....fought twice in Iraq and Afg. When they returned to the states had to turn in all weapons to the weapon depot. They were not allowed to touch or have a gun on base. Only when they went out on training exercises were they allowed to carry weapons.....As you said, the only ones that were allowed to were the MPs.

If they are in uniform...they should be allowed to carry, IMO

[Jedi Master]

This article explains why recruiters are not allowed to carry arms: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/jul/17/why-arent-military-recruiters-armed/315212/

"Tucked in strip malls in rural and suburban communities and in high-traffic city spots like New York's Times Square, military recruiting and reserve stations are designed to be open and welcoming to the public. The troops inside aren't allowed to carry weapons.

The ban is largely due to legal issues, such as the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prohibits the federal government from using the military for domestic law enforcement. U.S. forces don't routinely carry guns when they are not in combat or on military bases. And Pentagon officials are sensitive to any appearance of armed troops within the United States.

"We're always going to be somewhat vulnerable to a lone wolf, or whatever you want to call it, a surprise shooter, because we are out there with the population and that's where we have to be," said Odierno."

[HerbTarlekVol]

I've seen several stories like this one from throughout the country. 

Cudos to the citizens who give a damn.

http://concealednation.org/2015/07/armed-citizens-stand-guard-outside-army-recruiting-center-after-deadly-attacks-in-chattanooga/

[volsboy]

I've seen several stories like this one from throughout the country. 

Cudos to the citizens who give a damn.

http://concealednation.org/2015/07/armed-citizens-stand-guard-outside-army-recruiting-center-after-deadly-attacks-in-chattanooga/

There are some in the US who feel like "How can they be victims of terrorism? They are in the military. You can't be a terrorist victim if you are a soldier". I want to smack the$#% out of them.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Last night, thousands of our citizens of all races and faiths (even Muslims) descended on the inner city to Chattanooga's largest and oldest historically black church for the memorial.  Pastors from all over town spoke.  Hymns were sung, and innumerable tears shed.  Our mayor was there, as well as our governor.  All of our elected representatives came in from Nashville and Washington.  You know who WASN'T there?  Hint: he sings a pretty mean rendition of "Amazing Grace".  I guess some memorial services are more worthy of his attendance than others.  

Sorry.  I swore off making political posts on here (or most anywhere else online, FTM) years ago.  But at this point, I really don't give a fizzle.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/jul/17/breaking-one-four-marines-killed-chattanooga-identified/315121/

[HerbTarlekVol]

Last night, thousands of our citizens of all races and faiths (even Muslims) descended on the inner city to Chattanooga's largest and oldest historically black church for the memorial.  Pastors from all over town spoke.  Hymns were sung, and innumerable tears shed.  Our mayor was there, as well as our governor.  All of our elected representatives came in from Nashville and Washington.  You know who WASN'T there?  Hint: he sings a pretty mean rendition of "Amazing Grace".  I guess some memorial services are more worthy of his attendance than others.  

Sorry.  I swore off making political posts on here (or most anywhere else online, FTM) years ago.  But at this point, I really don't give a fizzle.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/jul/17/breaking-one-four-marines-killed-chattanooga-identified/315121/

You'll have to excuse him.  He was busy preparing for a democrat party fund raiser, just like he was the night Benghazi happened. 

Priorities. 

http://joeforamerica.com/2015/07/guess-what-obamas-doing-this-weekend-instead-of-honoring-4-dead-marines-repulsive-typical/#