OK, I'll say it... I'm not pissed at Butch

[BanditVol]

No, it was more than one occasion.  Happened 4 or 5 times late 3rd/4th qtrs. 

Well if you're going to throw the late third quarter in, you have more of a point.  But I still disagree.  Up only 14 against a team like OU, you don't manage the clock starting in the middle of the 3rd quarter, you keep trying to score.  Which is exactly the criticism leveled at Butch...that he didn't do enough of this.  We had a third and very long in the late third quarter...should we have tried a quick kick?  Johnny Majors probably would have.

The classic case of this to me is Auburn 1990.  After consecutive butt kickings at their place in 1986 and 1988 we were leading by 14 in the middle of the third quarter and Johhny went into a shell.  They came back and tied us 26-26 (but it felt like a loss).  Because of that and other numerous examples, I'm a firm believer that with a lead as relatively small as 14 points, you don't start "running the clock" until there are about five minutes left in the game.

If on the other hand you are up 5 TDs, might as well, but then the second string might already be in the game also.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Well if you're going to throw the late third quarter in, you have more of a point.  But I still disagree.  Up only 14 against a team like OU, you don't manage the clock starting in the middle of the 3rd quarter, you keep trying to score.  Which is exactly the criticism leveled at Butch...that he didn't do enough of this.  We had a third and very long in the late third quarter...should we have tried a quick kick?  Johnny Majors probably would have.

The classic case of this to me is Auburn 1990.  After consecutive butt kickings at their place in 1986 and 1988 we were leading by 14 in the middle of the third quarter and Johhny went into a shell.  They came back and tied us 26-26 (but it felt like a loss).  Because of that and other numerous examples, I'm a firm believer that with a lead as relatively small as 14 points, you don't start "running the clock" until there are about five minutes left in the game.

If on the other hand you are up 5 TDs, might as well, but then the second string might already be in the game also.

Again, I did't say you go conservative.  I said you have to manage the play clock more efficiently and shorten the game with a lead at that point in the game, and especially having trouble moving the football.

Do you not understand the difference or are you just being an #badword# on purpose?

[JeffCountyVolFan]

Well if you're going to throw the late third quarter in, you have more of a point.  But I still disagree.  Up only 14 against a team like OU, you don't manage the clock starting in the middle of the 3rd quarter, you keep trying to score.  

You can do both, no?

To me, though, it seemed that we went conservative in the play-calling and made no attempt to manage the clock. I can't see how that makes any sense.

[SmokeyJoe]

When did Ellis drop the sure TD, or the fumble after the interception, or the badly missed field goal? The fourth quarter seemed especially bad because it flipped in the last half of the quarter. It was truly a team loss. It doesn't get any easier either. I still think we'll have a nice possibly very good year.

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[SmokeyJoe]

I think mosely, or Jones are about ready on OL, and surely McKenzie & Tuttle are close on DL. Kirkland at MLB & Smith outside. Bates? Still so, so young, but talented. O'Brien & McNeil will be back. It ain't over yet :)

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[BanditVol]

Again, I did't say you go conservative.  I said you have to manage the play clock more efficiently and shorten the game with a lead at that point in the game, and especially having trouble moving the football.

Do you not understand the difference or are you just being an #badword# on purpose?

It's idiotic to manage the clock beginning in the middle of the third quarter.  And EVEN IF YOU FREAKING DID, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FIVE PLAYS AT MOST!!!

Omg...I guess you majored in communications for  a reason.   

And I'm not worried about the name calling.  Pot, kettle, etc.   

[Clockwork Orange]

Goodness what a shizzlety thread.

[JeffCountyVolFan]

It's idiotic to manage the clock beginning in the middle of the third quarter.  And EVEN IF YOU FREAKING DID, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FIVE PLAYS AT MOST!!!

It isn't idiotic to manage the clock if you've gone into an offensive shell. In fact its the only strategy that makes any sense at all in that scenario, imo.  To go conservative in play-calling and continue to run the hurry-up offense, up 14 points, is the idiotic strategy, at least as I see it.

As for the number of plays called, would the conversation between the coaching staff have gone something like this?  "We are only going to be able to run five to eight plays offensively for the remainder of the game, so there is no reason to try to use up the play clock."  There is no way that you know, before the fact, how many plays you will get to run.  You would hope to be able to run many, many more than that - and therefore be able to use a substantial portion of the clock.  

Of course, as my wife says, you could color me dumb and maybe explain my thinking.

[BanditVol]

I think I've made my opinion on this very clear and it isn't changing, so....

[JeffCountyVolFan]

As someone who doesn't post very often (but who lurks almost daily), I understand that it may seem that I am just in this thread to be argumentative.  That is not really my intention - although I do enjoy a good debate and will at times even argue a viewpoint that I don't really believe in order to keep a debate going.

I got involved in this thread because I was sickened by the loss last weekend and feel that a great deal of the reason for the loss was coaching error(s) - a view which is not shared by everyone (and that's OK).  I also believe that this staff has made similar mistakes in previous seasons, and this concerns me. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I completely understand the concept of milking the clock.  What I am saying is that your argument is reduced to saying there was one play in the 4th quarter where we didn't do this, and for that matter it was in the beginning of the 4th quarter.  If you really want to pretend that mattered you are welcome to your delusion.

You could add in two more plays on our second drive, but then you have to argue that milking the clock up only one TD with 7 minutes left is a good idea. 

What we did with the clock in the 4th quarter was irrelevant.  We needed first downs and scores, not time management. 

How much time was left when Oklahoma scored to tie the game in the 4th? 

What happens if on 3 or 4 of those plays UT doesn't snap the football until there are only a couple of seconds on the play clock instead of 20 to 25?  Worse case is that Oklahoma has to speed up and maybe do something they don't want to do in desperation instead of doing what they were more comfortable in doing. 

It's not rocket surgery, Bandit.  You can't be that stupid. 

[BanditVol]

How much time was left when Oklahoma scored to tie the game in the 4th? 

What happens if on 3 or 4 of those plays UT doesn't snap the football until there are only a couple of seconds on the play clock instead of 20 to 25?  Worse case is that Oklahoma has to speed up and maybe do something they don't want to do in desperation instead of doing what they were more comfortable in doing. 

It's not rocket surgery, Bandit.  You can't be that stupid. 

 

[HerbTarlekVol]

Which is exactly how one responds when he has no logical, reasonable, or rational defense of his argument. 

Game, set, match.   

[BanditVol]

Which is exactly how one responds when he has no logical, reasonable, or rational defense of his argument. 

Game, set, match.   

No here is the readers digest.

Butch has been accused of "playing not to lose", of being too conservative, "playing scared" and his manhood has even been questioned.

Given that, the LAST THING anyone should complain about is that he didn't run the clock enough!

Simple.