VTTW Board Index

He has greatly improved the offense, and that has been the difference this year.  The offense has gone from putrid, one of the worst in CFB, to merely average with Grier and below average with Harris.  How they do next year on offense IMO largely depends on the status of the Grier appeal.  If they are limited to Harris again, they almost certainly drop some early games, especially ours.   :biggrin:

Even if the offense is not dominating, the improvement is still impressive.  But the reason they are winning is due to the D.  The D was constructed by Muschamp, who, whatever his failings as HC, is an outstanding defensive coach.  Will McIllwain, the offensive minded guy be able to maintain that?  I guess we will see.  They have so much talent available in that state that i don't think the D will ever suck, but odds are it will not be quite as good as it is now either IMO.  They lose quite a few seniors and there may be some juniors leave early.  Muschamp's last couple of recruiting classes kind of sucked, so I see some rebuilding for the D next year.

But most important, they have won 4 games by one score or less, and not against competition that was great either.  They did lose one close one LSU, but won the rest.  I well recall 2004, when Tennessee won 6 of 7 close games, two of which were Kentucky and Vandy.  The next year, we lost 3 of 6 games that were settled by a score or less to give Fulmer his first losing season.  Something similar happened with Muschamp's one good year.  He won a lot of close games where they caught breaks but lost similar games the following year.

I expect the same thing to perhaps happen to Florida.  In many of their wins they have caught breaks (shanked punt against Vandy, missed opportunity or two by UK, don't even get me started on our game). 

We will find out, but I don't see McIllwain having a dominant team next year by any means.  They will be much better than under Muschamp, but the D will be down a notch and IMO they start rolling snake eyes and lose some of the close one.  No one can get lucky forever.   :biggrin:

He should be National COY.

I remember some laughing when Florida made this hire......remember a poster even calling him a clown. That clown just won the East and has done a good job of smoke and mirrors on offense since he lost his starting QB. I knew when Florida hired him they had made a good hire and said so at the time.

IMO, Florida will be the team to beat in the East the next few years.....after this season winning the East when most were saying they would be lucky to win 6 games they will not have any trouble recruiting at a high level.

Mac is a darn good football coach...Period

I thought at the time of his hire that it was a good one by Foley, and I still do. He won the East with what might be the worst team he'll ever have at UF.

I wasn't.  I was aware of what he did at bammer and other places as OC, and knew he might considerably improve the offense, which he did.  I expected an 8-4 type of year, but as I point out above, some breaks fell his way.

That's the conventional wisdom, but I would like to see him do it without all the luck first.  I think he might actually take a step back next year.

9-1 and ranked 8th in the AP poll.  Read slowly - that's 9-1 and ranked 8th, going to be in the SEC championship game.

Did I mention that they are 9-1 and ranked 8th? 

What in the cowboy hell will it take to "sell" you on him? 

If they hadn't lost PED Boy at QB they most likely beat LSU.

I bet you same sheep are sold on Jones though. Give me a break. I'm with you Herb.

Keep up the name calling and you won't have to worry about being here to be so bothered.  No further warnings.

We will see HTK

There is another "conventional wisdom" that says "winners find a way to win".

I've always thought that was mostly BS.  What actually happens is the ball bounces funny.  Sometimes it bounces your way, sometimes it doesn't.

It's completely irrational to think that a team that barely beat Vandy, Kentucky, ESU, and if I am a particular poster on here, us, is actually some kind of world beater. No.  They just won the lottery this year that's all.

I'm not saying he's a bad coach...he's actually a very good one.  But that he is in the top 9 and has only 1 loss is as much luck as anything else.

It appears the committee actually agrees with me.  Florida, in spite of being the East champion and having only one loss, is nowhere near the top 4 (might change tonight but I doubt it changes much).  And as a matter of fact, Finebaum thinks they may even be left out if they win the SEC!  Not that I like Finebaum, but he's as tied into the process as anyone, and certainly more than me.

Uh, if you insist, Bandit.  Bet it really sucks to be 9-1 and with a month left in the season to know you are going to be in Atlanta playing for an SEC championship. 

Takes a really crappy coach to accomplish that.   :rolleyes:

I'm not saying he's a bad coach...he's actually a very good one.

Read a bit more carefully next time.   :naughty:

No, what you said is that you weren't "sold" on him yet. 

And my counterpoint was asking you what it would take to "sell" you on him.

My reading comprehension is fine.  All I am asking for is logical and reasonable debate on why you aren't "sold" on him yet.  He's proved that he knows what he is doing thus far at UF, coupled with the success he had as Bama's OC and turning Colorado State around from a 4-8 team to a 10-2 team in just 3 years. 

What else does he have to do? 

Well first and foremost, I'm not sold on the view of a lot of fans that the Vols can never defeat him. 

But in terms of his coaching ability, I think the odds are that he will have a worse record next year than this and is going to have a tough time repeating as East champ.   They will be the favorites for sure.

In most cases where a team wins some close games where they caught lucky breaks, the odds catch up.

They are quite over-rated at no. 9, and my guess is the odds even up next year and they lose a few more than this.

We will see.

Based on his original post, it seems that he believes FL got lucky this year.
I think that's sour grapes. Dude made his own luck.

No, not sour grapes at all.  Honestly, my hatred of UF is nowhere near where it was in the 90s hey day of this rivalry.  I am impressed by what McIllwain has accomplished this year.

But he literally did get lucky!  Vandy shanks a punt.  Kentucky throws a late int.  The Vols miss a long FG to end the game (which should have been closer anyway).  ECU leads most of the game and makes a late turnover.

These events will not repeat in the future. 

It's happened before.  A lot of Vol fans were really excited by the 2004 season in which we won SIX close games, until the wheels came off in 2005.  Muschamp went 11-1 in 2013 by winning about a half dozen games where all the breaks went their way, then promptly went 4-8 the next season.

For the record, I'm not predicting that kind of a collapse, because McIllwain is definitely a better HC than Muschamp.  But I would not be surprised to see be 7-3 at this point in the season next year.

What I am pointing out are things the "all that matters is winning" crowd often misses, which is that how you win actually does matter when talking about future prospects for success.

Let me put it this way...I think McIllwain's stock may well be near or even at it's all time high.  If this was in fact an investment, I would sell him and maybe even take up a short position.   :biggrin:

He'll have a chance to show his long time worth. His class wasn't good last year, so he will need to show he can recruit.

When you win 10-11 games it's a little harder to trend up unless you win them all. Butch is the one that needs to start trending up IMO.

Game.  Set.  Match. 

Like I said, must really suck for McIlwain to be 9-1 and playing in an SECCG.  :rolleyes:

Let's not get too carried away...McIllwain's luck has led to wins and Jones luck/lack there of has led to some tough losses. I hope that trend doesn't stay that way for long. I will say Mcillwain has had a good first season and leave it at that. Honestly, when Jones gets talented 2 deep depth all over the field, he will start winning these games where he has just fallen short. I am not totally down on Jones,contrary to popular belief, but next year he will have some 'splaining to do for these type losses.

he is. Albeit slower.

5-7
7-6
9-4?  

Never really saw that this was a McIlwain vs. Butch issue.  It's about what constitutes being "sold" on the job that McIlwain has done. 

Don't you know?
It's all about his hatred of all things Butch.
Rational thinking and logic has no place in his life :rolleyes:

We've seen a lot of coaches win big in year one with someone else's players, get labeled "the next big thing", and then flame out.  Larry Coker is exhibit A.  In the SEC, you have Houston Nutt and Gus Mahlzan, who's probably one more poor season away from losing his job.  Not saying that JM is going to suffer the same fate, but it wouldn't be unprecedented.  He HAS gotten a lot of breaks this year, and he's not recruiting particularly well.  I want to see what he does in years 3-4 before I crown him as the next Saban.

Bite me Pirate. When Butch is 9-1 I will give him the props he deserves. I just feel you hire a MAC coach you MAC results. All I want is for him to show me good coaching and good game-plans consistently. Bama was good. USCe and NTSU not so much. Just stating the obvious.

Truth hurts badly doesn't it.
Apparently, you can't handle the TRUTH!
Your first deep thought might suffocate you

No you won't.  You'll be bitching about the one loss.  Don't even deny it.

only knew of CJM from bammer and CSU he did a solid job at CSU.

once he was hired at UF I started to pay attention-he comes across in interviews as a bit off center but he is loved by his players, understands how to put guys in positions that will maximize their ability and transparently lets the Defensive Coaches run the defense.

The O is going to be better year over year imo.

The D-that is the main issue he will face once he starts to get "his guys" into the program-will he be offensive driven or will he have balance?  time will tell but dang he sure has surprised the heck out of me.

still steamed over his post game after our Loss--looking back you think what a goof ball but CJM has done a COY job

I will give him credit when it's due. I still say he will be the type of coach that has to out-talent the other guys instead of out-coach them. It is in his court to prove otherwise.

so you say
pardon us if we don't believe you

You do remember that YOU were the one who inserted Butch into the discussion, as your hatred of Butch and related shallow thinking seemingly only allows you to think in negative terms, no matter the ACTUAL subject of a thread.

Yeah, so if this was a stock trade, I'd be rolling in cash right now

Nice continual luck there, McIllwain.  The odds WILL turn, they always do.   :naughty: