It's not one guy...team losing mindset.

[Volznut]

Teams who have been losing and get used to losing tend to do that. This is what UK did and Vandy used to do. I hate ****head Franklin, but that dude has their team believing they can win. He can motivate.

We have to get back to a winning mindset. Start fresh next year level set without players from 2009 - 2013. That's a start. Our so called "seniors" got used to losing. Listen to what they were saying. I bet a lot of them "knew" Vandy would drive down the field at the end of the game. Butch has to instill the mindset in the players that they know that they will not do so. Then little plays go our way, like the 4th down play. We also don't make silly penalties against opponents that keep drives going.

I have said it before...losing these seniors on the lines is a good thing for next year. I won't miss these seniors. Sorry....it is what it is.

[Clockwork Orange]

I have said it before...losing these seniors on the lines is a good thing for next year. I won't miss these seniors. Sorry....it is what it is.

It's odd, but I agree with you, and I say that with the full expectation that the OL will not be nearly as good. It doesn't make much sense but having an above average line that had expectations of being phenomenal can be more frustrating than an average line with average expectations.

[SmokeyJoe]

Out with the old and in with the new.

[Creek Walker]

During a conversation with Inky Johnson last week he talked about the losing mindset of the team. Although he hasn't been directly involved with the program for years, he stays closely connected to it, so I trust his observations. His opinion is that Dooley created this mindset through the manner in which he approached things — constantly tearing the players down, telling them they sucked basically (think about it, this was a guy who went to the media to talk about teaching his players to bathe properly), and constantly talking about having to rebuild the program from the ground up. Johnson's opinion is that this is a mindset that is going to take Butch a while to overcome...he didn't say it in so many words, but I think it's safe to say that a mindset like that can only be replaced with new players a lot of times.

[VinnieVOL]

Butch seems so charismatic.  Look how he and his staff has sold the TN football program to enough high profile recruits to have us where we are in that regard.  To me logically he should be a great motivator.  Maybe it was just too much to expect for him to get these seniors turned around in a year.  They didn't get this way in a single year. 

Still, I agree.  I respect these seniors for what they've been through here.. but I won't miss them either.  I still can't believe they couldn't man up and get up for Vandy.  This Oline has been an embarrassment this year. 

[Creek Walker]

  This Oline has been an embarrassment this year. 

Looking back on how the o-line performed last year, I feel really stupid for buying into the hype that this unit was the SEC's best.

[PirateVOL]

Looking back on how the o-line performed last year, I feel really stupid for buying into the hype that this unit was the SEC's best.

On the 3rd and 1 we attempted to run behind the two OL that had performed the best overall this year, including the one (Foster) who had graded out the best most of the year and we got blown up.  We also went with six OL last night several times and it worked only once.  Other times we had individual blowups (Crowder  for one, James for another and also Tiny.

[BanditVol]

Yeah, the line looked a lot better last year when Bray was throwing to CP and Hunter.

I guess we will see how the next one does....and everyone will complain about that too.   

[VinnieVOL]

I guess we will see how the next one does....and everyone will complain about that too.  

Not if they do what an Oline is supposed to do on a relatively consistent basis.  Is that really expecting too much?

[PirateVOL]

Yeah, the line looked a lot better last year when Bray was throwing to CP and Hunter.

not really

[Volznut]

Yeah, the line looked a lot better last year when Bray was throwing to CP and Hunter.

I guess we will see how the next one does....and everyone will complain about that too.   

Yet they give up crucial play to Clowney. Can't make game winning drives all year. Point is still...team losing mindset.

[BanditVol]

Yet they give up crucial play to Clowney. Can't make game winning drives all year. Point is still...team losing mindset.

I don't disagree that Dooley installed a losing mentality.  It's clear that some issues linger from that.  I also don't argue that the OL has underperformed a bit...they have.  I have tracked their draft status and Tiny, for example, has dropped from 16th earlier in the season to 24th.

I also am not angry at them or any seniors.  Disappointed yes, but as bad as it is for us fans, I can't imagine what it must be like to have played at Tennessee through the Dooley-Kiffin era.  I actually feel bad they had to go through all the crap of the last four years.

But as far as whether the OL is any good or not...we average 186 yards per game running the ball.  You have to go back all the way to 2004 for the last time we averaged that many yards running...it's a tie.  Prior to that, 186 beats every year until  1998 we averaged 204 yards a game.  So this is literally the best run game we have had since the national championship year.

As for pass protection, we are tied for 25th in the country at 1.27 sacks allowed per game.  Not great, but definitely good.

So I don't see any objective evidence that the OL sucks, other than upset and emotional fans lashing out, and I for one  will definitely miss them next year.

Hurd or no Hurd I seriously doubt we average anywhere near 186 yards per game rushing the ball next year, though I would be happy to be wrong.

[PirateVOL]

As for pass protection, we are tied for 25th in the country at 1.27 sacks allowed per game.  Not great, but definitely good.

So I don't see any objective evidence that the OL sucks, other than upset and emotional fans lashing out, and I for one  will definitely miss them next year.

So exactly why was Dobbs running for his life most of the night Saturday night.
Sacks are not the final answer with regards to pass protection. 
You have to factor in scrambles for little or no gain, balls thrown away or picks (one of the picks Saturday night was directly due to pass protection breakdown.

The fact remains this unit has gotten worse at pass protection, but the reality is perhaps they weren't as good as the stats showed last year.  Bray was good at getting rid of the ball quickly to an open receiver and he was actuay pretty good at moving around just enough to sidestep the pressure.  Bray also had, with the exception of CP, receivers he knew were going to be in the right place at the right time.

One other good thing, and one that I believe has led to his playing more at times is that Neal is pretty darn good at picking up blitzes.  You saw one example at MO where Neal was supposed to get a play fake but instead ran behind Dobbs to pick a blitzer from the other side (right) of the formation.

[BanditVol]

So exactly why was Dobbs running for his life most of the night Saturday night.
Sacks are not the final answer with regards to pass protection. 

Bray was good at getting rid of the ball quickly to an open receiver and he was actuay pretty good at moving around just enough to sidestep the pressure.  Bray also had, with the exception of CP, receivers he knew were going to be in the right place at the right time.

Looks to me like you answered your own question....maybe the OL can conjure an experienced QB and WR corps out of thin air, because that's the real problem with this offense.  There were times that Vandy got through and should not have, but also plenty of times he had all night and could not produce...or worse threw an int.

The unfortunate truth is that we have started three QBs this year and have not had any consistency.  WRs have played well at times but are still young also.  Pass offense just needs time to jell.