Clockwork Orange
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« on: May 16, 2013, 02:31:50 EDT » |
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I went through all of UT's draft picks since the early 90s and tied them back to their incoming recruiting class. Not surprisingly, they paint a telling picture: Now, the last few classes still have a chance to put guys into the draft, but I would argue that the 2009 class may stay at zero (or at most be 1 or 2). 2010-2012 may indeed have a number of draft picks and that remains to be seen. Also note that the 1992 class was the Majors/Fulmer transition year. I don't know if that gets attributed to Majors or to Fulmer but it was an outstanding class. Any surprise that the on-field performance declined after about 2004?
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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101stDad
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 03:08:10 EDT » |
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Pretty much tells the tale. Little talent = little on the field success.
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Volznut
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 04:00:06 EDT » |
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Nope, no surprise there. Talent equals success. The biggest thing a coach can do to ensure success is to get good recruiters in his staff and recruit like gangbusters. especially in the brutal SEC. That's really why Saban is winning, he gets the talent.
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 04:44:53 EDT » |
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Other interesting tidbits from the data (all NFL drafts since 1970) . . . Drafted UT players by position: LB 34 OL 34 WR 34 DB 29 RB 22 DE 18 DT 15 QB 11 TE 7 K 6 P 6 FB 3
Obviously the WR numbers are the most impressive since only 2-3 were on the field at a given time for most of this time period, but the LB number is pretty damn impressive too. In fact, UT had at least one LB drafted from 8 consecutive recruiting classes from 1995-2002, and 11 out of 14 recruiting classes from 1991-2004. In those 14 years, UT recruited a total of 13 LBs that were drafted, including five in the first and second rounds. I still marvel at the 1997 recruiting class at RB: Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Travis Stephens, and Dominique Stevenson. All four were drafted, though Stevenson as a LB. Next tidbit: Majors and staff recruited 86 draft picks in 15 years (5.7 per year). Fulmer and staff recruited 79 draft picks in 17 years (4.6 per year). I would not have guessed that. The only other coach with enough track record to measure, Bill Battle, recruited 25 picks in 7 years (3.6 per year). Related tidbit: In terms of being the player's final coach before going pro, Majors had 81 in 15 years (5.4 per year), Fulmer had 90 in 17 years (5.3 per year), and Battle had 29 in 7 years (4.1 per year). Dooley had 7 in 3 years (2.3 per year) and Kiffin had 6 in 1 year. There are a number of potential takeaways in the above numbers, but I'll leave that to someone else.
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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101stDad
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 05:19:58 EDT » |
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Other interesting tidbits from the data (all NFL drafts since 1970) . . . Drafted UT players by position: LB 34 OL 34 WR 34 DB 29 RB 22 DE 18 DT 15 QB 11 TE 7 K 6 P 6 FB 3
Obviously the WR numbers are the most impressive since only 2-3 were on the field at a given time for most of this time period, but the LB number is pretty damn impressive too. In fact, UT had at least one LB drafted from 8 consecutive recruiting classes from 1995-2002, and 11 out of 14 recruiting classes from 1991-2004. In those 14 years, UT recruited a total of 13 LBs that were drafted, including five in the first and second rounds. I still marvel at the 1997 recruiting class at RB: Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Travis Stephens, and Dominique Stevenson. All four were drafted, though Stevenson as a LB. Next tidbit: Majors and staff recruited 86 draft picks in 15 years (5.7 per year). Fulmer and staff recruited 79 draft picks in 17 years (4.6 per year). I would not have guessed that. The only other coach with enough track record to measure, Bill Battle, recruited 25 picks in 7 years (3.6 per year). Related tidbit: In terms of being the player's final coach before going pro, Majors had 81 in 15 years (5.4 per year), Fulmer had 90 in 17 years (5.3 per year), and Battle had 29 in 7 years (4.1 per year). Dooley had 7 in 3 years (2.3 per year) and Kiffin had 6 in 1 year. There are a number of potential takeaways in the above numbers, but I'll leave that to someone else. To be fair on the average number of players drafted per year and the total number drafted in comparison between the Majors and Fulmer years, you have to consider that during Majors' entire tenure at UT the NFL draft was 12 rounds long. In 1993 the NFL shortened the draft to 8 rounds, and then in 1994 to the 7 rounds that it remains today. So, taking that into consideration, there were more opportunities for Majors' players to be drafted. Many in the Fulmer years who were free agent signees would have likely been drafted in rounds 8-12, as they were under Majors.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 06:00:39 EDT » |
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To be fair on the average number of players drafted per year and the total number drafted in comparison between the Majors and Fulmer years, you have to consider that during Majors' entire tenure at UT the NFL draft was 12 rounds long. In 1993 the NFL shortened the draft to 8 rounds, and then in 1994 to the 7 rounds that it remains today. So, taking that into consideration, there were more opportunities for Majors' players to be drafted. Many in the Fulmer years who were free agent signees would have likely been drafted in rounds 8-12, as they were under Majors.
Good point. It would be interesting to see the average ranks between Majors and Fulmer. Fulmer was likely higher in that stat.....
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"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.” G. Patton
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 06:21:22 EDT » |
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Good point. It would be interesting to see the average ranks between Majors and Fulmer. Fulmer was likely higher in that stat.....
You'd be right. Average overall pick #: Battle: 186 Majors: 134 Fulmer: 108 But that punishes Majors for the draft structure, just as counting draftees punished Fulmer. To be fair, I sort of normalized. The modern draft has 250-260 picks, depending on how many compensatory picks there are. So for any pick in the top 260, I gave credit. For any pick below that, they simply weren't counted (since they would not have been taken in the modern draft). # of picks per year, with avg pick in parentheses: Battle: 2.4 (120) Majors: 4.9 (109) Fulmer: 4.6 (108) So Majors still had more draft-worthy players per year, with an average pick # virtually identical to Fulmer's.
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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101stDad
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 06:44:04 EDT » |
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Once he got past the first 4-5 years when he had to deal with a fairly empty cupboard, just as Butch Jones is having to deal with, Majors recruited really well. Recruiting was never really his issue. It was losing to Alabama all of those years that got him in the end. He would always find a way to lose to somebody he shouldn't, but he would normally beat somebody he wasn't supposed to beat, too. Majors teams were known for their inconsistency and inability to take the "next step" after tasting success.
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 06:47:34 EDT » |
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Once he got past the first 4-5 years when he had to deal with a fairly empty cupboard, just as Butch Jones is having to deal with, Majors recruited really well. Recruiting was never really his issue. It was losing to Alabama all of those years that got him in the end. He would always find a way to lose to somebody he shouldn't, but he would normally beat somebody he wasn't supposed to beat, too. Majors teams were known for their inconsistency and inability to take the "next step" after tasting success.
Yep. It's just surprising to me HOW well he recruited. We all know what Fulmer's reputation as a recruiter was, but it's apparent that Majors and his staffs were even better at it. Of course, this also highlights the flipside, as you say . . . all that talent and it was apparent that Majors was not capable of taking things to the next level. Short-lived though it may have been, Fulmer was able to kick it up the final notch in his first 10 years and take advantage of the talent both he and his predecessor recruited.
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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Creek Walker
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 08:08:27 EDT » |
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This thread is making me wish it was 1990 again, with an open upper deck on the north end zone and Gene Stallings bringing Alabama to Knoxville.
I'm a nostalgic fool when it comes to almost everything from the past, but I could listen to John Ward call those old games from the late '80s and early '90s at the end of the Majors era with goosebumps all day, every day. Of course that era is when I came of age as a Tennessee fan, so that's why it stands out a little more to me than even the glory years of the mid-to-late '90s.
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VinnieVOL
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 08:55:36 EDT » |
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This thread is making me wish it was 1990 again, with an open upper deck on the north end zone and Gene Stallings bringing Alabama to Knoxville.
I'm a nostalgic fool when it comes to almost everything from the past, but I could listen to John Ward call those old games from the late '80s and early '90s at the end of the Majors era with goosebumps all day, every day. Of course that era is when I came of age as a Tennessee fan, so that's why it stands out a little more to me than even the glory years of the mid-to-late '90s.
+1
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 09:04:05 EDT » |
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This thread is making me wish it was 1990 again, with an open upper deck on the north end zone and Gene Stallings bringing Alabama to Knoxville.
I'm a nostalgic fool when it comes to almost everything from the past, but I could listen to John Ward call those old games from the late '80s and early '90s at the end of the Majors era with goosebumps all day, every day. Of course that era is when I came of age as a Tennessee fan, so that's why it stands out a little more to me than even the glory years of the mid-to-late '90s.
I'll go ahead and make matters worse. Draft Name Pos Rd Overall pick # ------------------------------------------ 1986 McGee, T WR 1 21 1986 Powell, J RB 6 166 1986 Swanson, E WR 7 170 1986 Sims, T DB 7 190 1986 Douglas, D OL 8 204 1987 Wilkerson, B OL 2 52 1987 Clinkscales, J WR 9 233 1987 Jones, D LB 10 262 1987 Reveiz, C K 11 302 1988 McDaniel, T DB 1 9 1988 Miller, A WR 1 15 1988 Bruhin, J OL 4 86 1988 Howard, W RB 5 113 1988 Galbreath, H OL 8 212 1988 Howard, J OL 9 238 1989 DeLong, K LB 1 28 1989 Francis, J QB 6 140 1990 Cobb, R RB 2 30 1990 Hobby, M DE 3 74 1990 Still, E OL 4 99 1990 Hayworth, T LB 7 174 1990 Elmore, K P 7 190 1990 Woods, T WR 8 205 1991 McRae, C OL 1 7 1991 Davis, A OL 1 8 1991 Harper, A WR 1 12 1991 Webb, C RB 3 81 1991 Davis, H DB 5 128 1991 Morgan, A WR 5 134 1991 Amsler, G FB 8 197 1991 Poles, R RB 10 254 1991 Moore, V WR 11 279 1992 Carter, D DB 1 20 1992 Mims, C DE 1 23 1992 Pickens, C WR 2 31 1992 Smith, C DE 2 51 1992 Lincoln, J DB 3 80 1992 Myslinski, T OL 4 109 1992 Bradley, S DT 9 240 1992 Dafney, B OL 9 247 1992 Hardy, D LB 10 270 1993 Kelly, T DE 1 27 1993 Thomas, D DB 8 203 1994 Shuler, H QB 1 3 1994 Garner, C RB 2 42 1994 Fleming, C WR 3 87 1994 Bonham, S DT 3 93 1994 Morris, H LB 5 152 1995 Stewart, J RB 1 19 1995 Davis, R DB 2 41 1995 Hayden, A RB 4 104 1995 Talley, B LB 4 133 1995 Colquitt, J QB 6 191 1995 Williams, B WR 7 212
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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Creek Walker
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2013, 09:47:14 EDT » |
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As good as Fulmer's teams were from '95-'98 I am still not convinced that those '89-'91 teams weren't equally talented. If not for Majors' penchant for blowing games he should've won (especially against Bama), there's no reason UT couldn't have won at least 2 national championships in that 3-year span.
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2013, 09:50:34 EDT » |
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As good as Fulmer's teams were from '95-'98 I am still not convinced that those '89-'91 teams weren't equally talented. If not for Majors' penchant for blowing games he should've won (especially against Bama), there's no reason UT couldn't have won at least 2 national championships in that 3-year span.
Yep. It kinda makes you sick to look at the talent in that 10-year span I just posted. There were, thankfully, a few SEC titles there, but several of those teams should have been nationally competitive.
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."
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BanditVol
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 07:01:23 EDT » |
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As good as Fulmer's teams were from '95-'98 I am still not convinced that those '89-'91 teams weren't equally talented. If not for Majors' penchant for blowing games he should've won (especially against Bama), there's no reason UT couldn't have won at least 2 national championships in that 3-year span.
We were really close in 1990. So close....but there is no such thing as a moral NC. Well, actually there IS...or was until 1998, lol.
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"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.” G. Patton
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