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http://tennessee.247sports.com/Article/Butch-Jones-opens-up-about-Tennessee-Vols-offensive-struggles-31813106

I know this is a day old, but I still thought it was interesting.

I can't decide whether I'm glad he's pissed or if I take it as "hey, coaching isn't the problem.. it's the knuckleheads that either can't or won't do what we tell them to do".  I think his heart is in it and that he's genuinely upset over what happened on Saturday, just like we are.  But I also remember Dooley basically saying "hey, we're not very good" and that rubs me the wrong way even though I know he didn't mean it the way Dooley meant it.  But still, I'm tired of hearing about how we just don't have good enough players and how the talent's just not there.  I KNOW our OL isn't that good.  And I know we don't have the talent across the board like the other heavyweights in the SEC.  STILL, we were 4-5 swing plays from taking Oklahoma to the final whistle in their house in a primetime game.  We were 1-2 plays from beating UGA in their house.  WE WERE good enough to have beaten Florida, bottom line.

Here's my question.  Why did we move the ball so well the 1st four games?  On Saturday it was like all the years past when UF was our first big game and we were freaked out from the first kickoff, coaches and players alike.  Like we didn't know what we wanted or what we were trying to accomplish.  We looked like a team still wet behind the ears who was thrown into a big game much to early in the season, with no apparent plan to move the ball.  What had the previous 5 weeks been about?  Did they not watch UF tape? No, we had just gone on the road and moved the ball against Oklahoma (a much better team and, I think, a better defense than UF) and against UGA.  We lost, but our offense had some pretty good moments.  Explain to me, Butch, how we go from respectable success against those defenses to not being able to do a SINGLE DANG THING against UF, a team in disarray whose confidence was shot.  I'm not one who sits there during a game and analyzes what our opponent's defense is doing and what sort of coverage is going on as it relates to what we're trying to do to counter their strategy, but we played and coached scared on Saturday.  We didn't "go for it" at all, instead it was a miserable four quarters of conservative field position football that I still can't believe Butch authorized in the biggest "statement" game to date for him at UT.  It was excruciating to watch.  Butch didn't "go for it".  He and his staff played it safe and they blew it.

It sure looked like we had no freaking plan on how to move the ball against them except for the fact that we were going to line up a pair of receivers, throw a few quickscreens then fake the screen pass and throw it deep.  To me, that's pretty much the only thing Bajakian cooked up in his brain.  The rest appeared to be just throwing plays against the wall and hoping something stuck.  I'm certainly not an offensive genius and no, Butch, I don't know the difference in zone read and gap scheme.. and I don't care!  But I can tell you that what ever you were doing wasn't working and it didn't work for four whole quarters and multiple times field position was gift wrapped for you.  So yes, I hope Butch is pissed because one touchdown might've been the turning point for this program.

I've also learned something else these past few days.  Bajakian isn't going anywhere, not while Butch is the coach.  Again, not saying I think anyone should be fired already.  But I think Butch is going to be married to these assistants until he's out the door with them.

I'm still in show me mode, though.  Waiting for Butch and company to actually outcoach someone on gameday.  Defense has me believing, but offense... not so much.

Edit-Please note none of this is directed at you, Creek.  I'm just letting it all out.

^Plus one!

I was pretty frustrated with Chavis in 1997, when we rushed 3 on 3rd and 10 three times and once on 4th and 10 and ALL FOUR OF THOSE were TDs!

He turned it around...maybe Bajakian can.

Florida had a great defense in 2012 and a pretty good one last year in spite of the losing record...they are likely the third best D we face this year after Ole Miss and bammer.

Hurd was also beat up.

I can handle one bad game even if it is Florida but I expect us to do better the rest of the season.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


You have voiced my feelings quite well! First time I've seen your teapot boil over and I get it.


G      :powert:

It seems everyone has suddenly forgotten just how bare the cupboard was when Dooley left, even though it was screamed from the mountaintops as late as last season.  I recall many (most?) here saying the talent level at Tennessee was the worst in the history of the program when Jones was hired.  Now, somehow the Vols are supposed to be winning with same lack of talent plus one full year of Jones' recruits.  I still say the current disappointment is largely the result of raised expectations brought about by the clear improvement in play despite the same lack of talent.  I didn't see the Oklahoma or Georgia games, but clearly many fans agree the Vols "were 4-5 swing plays from taking Oklahoma to the final whistle in their house in a primetime game" and "1-2 plays from beating UGA in their house."  Were they "good enough to have beaten Florida"?  After watching the game, I think so.  But that's not because of having better talent or even equal talent.  I think it is only because this coaching staff has made the team better than the players' collective talent level.  And, that has raised expectations (of the coaches, players, and fans).  Double edged sword.  I'll stick with my pre-season expectation of 5-7, with 6-6 or better being a pleasant surprise, and 4-8 or worse being a disappointment.

If we were talking about a loss to Bama or Auburn, I would agree with you.  BUT - we are talking about a Florida team that was 2-8 in its last 10 games coming in, and a team that we were favored to beat.   Florida tried every way they could to give it to us, but we couldn't make the necessary adjustments to take it.

That's what worries me. 

I agree.  I didn't expect the Vols to win beforehand, but after seeing the game, clearly they could/should have won.  They made far too many mistakes, and I put a lot of that on the coaches (especially the stupid penalties after being very disciplined previously).  Despite that, I see marked improvement from Dooley's teams, and I expect continued improvement for the next 2-3 years.  I'm as disappointed as anyone; I'm just hardly in panic mode after one bad game.  Unfortunately, I expect some bad games from this team due to the nature of the roster. 

I see Saturday's game as a red flag -- nothing more, nothing less. It's not a warm and fuzzy feeling that we couldn't beat a weak Florida team when all the stars seemed to be aligned for us, but I don't think one game is enough to cast judgment on this staff's abilities (or lack thereof). It might very well be the start of a pattern, but it isn't a pattern yet.

With that said, that article sorta pissed me off. I say that with a bit of reservation because I didn't watch the presser and haven't read a transcript, and we all know how Rucker is (melodramatic, self-righteous, etc.). But it's a little soon for Butch to be acting butthurt over the pressure he's feeling from the media and fans. Talking down your nose to fans isn't the best way to endear yourselves to them, and there are a dozen unemployed coaches who can tell you what happens when you start sniping at the media and don't win games to back yourself up.

When asked stupid questions from morons like Hyams, but I repeat myself, it does tend to wear on you ...

Then do like I did; don't read the article.   :naughty:

Creek- while you're at it go ahead and un-read the article for me as well.   :loco:

"Like"!   :dielaughing:

My view and yours are very similar.  One reason that may be is that you and I were around for the buildup to the 90s and realize it didn't happen overnight.  I think you started following the Vols a bit earlier than I, but I have followed them since 1982, when we managed to sneak into a bowl for the first time in a few years.   It took nearly a decade before we were able to win consistently, even though 1981 was the fifth year for Majors.  Of course, he wouldn't get that kind of time now, but I recall clearly that he was on the hot seat when we finally beat bammer in 1985.

These down periods can be tough to recover from, which is why they should be avoided if at all possible. 

Don't think how long anybody has "been around" has a thing to do with whether or not a game was managed well. 

I've went to my first UT game when Dewey Warren was the QB and I have been following them ever since.  Seen the ups and downs and the ups and downs ...........

What I think a lot of folks are forgetting is that this was a bad Florida team - 2-8 in its last 10 before Saturday.  The ups and downs of previous years has nothing to do with why some of us are concerned. 

Charley Fulton better Vol QB than Dewey Warren? Nope, Swamp Rat by more than the length of his tail.

BG

Not just a bad team, but a poorly coached team.

There were times when UF defenders were running on and off the field, then some would stop and backpedal, then continue off the field.  Mass confusion after a bye week to prepare.  I chuckled and said "they've no clue what they're doing, this is great!"  Yet, we couldn't capitalize.   :banghead:

Good post....I've been around since Bowden Wyatt and my first game in Knoxville in 1958. I've seen it all. And what I saw against Florida was bad....really bad. It was a chance to break a curse of a decade and even more. We choked....we imploded. We are UT of the past several years. We find ways to lose.

Did not think you were THAT old ... :old:

My old alter-ego on the boards in the nineties-- the old gruff, very southern baritone voice of Head SEC Referee Jimmy Harper---would have flagged you on the board for that slip. You said the Vols didn't beat Bama until 1985: they beat Bama in 82, 83, 84 and 85 before Bama went on a long streak themselves. That flag would have been 15 yards on the Orange team according to Jimmy for "no dang recall":smile:

BG

BTW Bandit, Jimmy Harper also would've penalized the Crimson team on the board. Harper showed no favoritism! In fact somone linked a Paul Finebaum regular Tide caller a day or so ago. Knowing Jimmy Harper like the back of my hand, I assure you he would have flagged that Tide caller for a major step-off of 15 yards on the Crimson team, "Phyliss from Mulga for 'excessive hideousness' and 'not the sense God gave a DANG monkey'! Make that 20 yards!!!" :wink:
 

BG

When we got the false start penalty with Florida's defense all out of sorts in the first quarter, I cussed. Loudly.

A few hours after that game, I saw that other game on the tube and I spewed a few, too! :nod:

BG

I been following the Vols since Condrege played. First game I attended was against Ole Miss, when Norris Weece was their QB. For some reason I can't remember  who the Vols Qb was. Might have been Randy Wallace. Geesh I'm old.

Lol, I'd somehow forgotten about that false start.  Thanks.   :rant:

Yeah, I am, BUT I will never be as old as you are.   :moon:

I have been following the Vols since Andy Kelly and Chuck Webb played and I think the rest of you are a bunch of old curmudgeons.

Just like Popeye said, "I yam what I yam".   :toothless:

Considering how things ended up, those self-inflicted wounds early may have cost us the game. Should be a great teaching moment for Butch.

HERE HERE!!!   You are dead on bro!

It has nothing to do with this past game, which was definitely my point.  It has everything to do with remaining patient as a fan.  Bad games happen.  Maybe it was all on the coaches, maybe it was not.

The fact is, I thought it would be a close game and it was.  Take away a blown call on the FG by the officials or the stupid fumble by Worley and we do win.

Anyone looking at the quality of Florida and expecting a blowout was bound to be disappointed anyway IMO.  A totally rebuilt offensive line does not equate to success.

But back on point...it's going to take a while.  You said so preseason and I agreed...I suspect you are sticking with that.  One bad game should not derail all the progress to date.  Fans today are simply too impatient.

So again...to be 100% clear I am mentioning 1982 because progress in the 80s was at a glacier pace.  Some of that was on Johnny....he was just so danged inconsitent, not only season to season but game to game.  Some of the folks on here that started following the program in the 90s don't have a feel for that.  TRO obviously does as do I, and our views are similar.  The progress that Jones has made so far is much better than anything I recall from Johnny, so overall I still like the direction we are going in. 

I don't see that.  If you have a specific quote, list it.  His comments on players were entirely directed at the O Line.  He states that developing an O Line takes "2-3 years" and is one position that cannot be rushed.  This is what I have always read and believed.  Do you believe differently?  And in that context, reporters were also asking why he didn't sub.  His response is that there is no one to sub, what we have is what we have.  That is exactly what I have thought is true for the last year...that we are inexperienced on the O Line and that it will take time to develop.  Last year's "NFL Line" that was heavily criticized was much more highly rated than this years, and they also sucked as frosh!  But to your point, I don't see any criticism of players or blame directed at them at all....if anything he is defending them!  He is explaining to the media that offensive linemen take time to develop...which they should know, but even if they do they are going to ask the question.


Because the Florida D is better than OU (on whom we also only scored 10 points, BTW) and much, much better than Uga's D.  Another analogy to OU...we turned the ball over in the red zone in that game too, didn't we?  I think you are actually giving our offense too much credit for the OU game.


I didn't see it that way.  For instance, immediately following the int at about the 20, we threw it in the end zone for an int.  That's not playing it safe!  Further, our run/pass ratio was greatly skewed.  39 passes to 23 runs (which does not include the 6 sacks).  The only thing you can criticize is why we didn't throw vertically more.  Well, the answer is a couple sentences over!  Worley didn't have time!  He was on his back most of the afternoon.  

This doesn't mean I am happy with the result, and I am certainly not letting the coaches completely off the hook.  We had some early success with quick routes like slants and then went away from it.  It may be that Florida tightend up on those routes,  I don't know.  Clearly coaching and execution both could have been better.

But given our 100% new OL and the fact that Hurd was banged up, I don't see this as a complete, program-derailing disaster.

Some of you had best not have a job as a train operator, a pilot, a fireman or any other job that requires steady nerves, or there are going to be some people dead.    :naughty:

Yes, I said that it's going to take a while, and I still believe it.

That said, this Florida team is not one of those teams that we were clearly behind to the point where they should come in to Neyland and win.  In "justifying" the loss most UT fans seem to be glossing over the fact that this Florida team was 2-8 in its last 10 games, and they beat us with a true freshman QB and a true freshman RB playing significant roles.  The "we are young" excuse doesn't fly. 

I haven't seen anyone here justifying the loss.  The Vols clearly lost a game they could/should have won, and part of that certainly rests with the coaches.  I think the only area of disagreement is whether this one loss portends this staff being incapable of coaching talent and competing at the SEC level.  Some believe this offense and its coordinator, regardless of player talent, simply will not succeed.  I just don't think we have seen the offense with a full complement of talented players recruited to play in it, especially at QB and on the O-line, so I am still reserving judgment.  No more, no less.

Likewise, it's a shame you didn't go into politics.   :biggrin:

I'm not justifying the loss at all....just not ready to give up on Butch or even this season and I still like the overall progress.  A bad game or two does not upset me that much in terms of hope for  the future.

I hate losing to the gators as much as anyone though, and i am on record as saying we definitely should have won.

That seems funny, but I'm not sure why.  lol