Anyone see SVP and Russilo show today? Had a discussion about college

[volsboy]

coaching salaries. They talked about Butch Jones being 3rd or 4th behind Saban and Mack Brown. This includes the buyout but they said the only reason the schools do this is to sell hope to the fan base.  No way he is worth what he is getting. They pointed out SEC generally pays higher than other conferences. They said these schools change coaches about every three years and the process starts over again. Schools sell the fan base hope again and most of these coaches never will or ever could deliver what the fans want. They were just amazed at some of these SEC salaries and were laughing that the TV network money hasn't even came in yet. What will the salaries be when they get that money to play with? They said that at 5+ million Saban is a bargain. These other coaches, not so much. Interesting segment to say the least.

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't know who these guys are that you're talking about, but using that flawed USA Today salary report reflects either a lack of intelligence or a lack of thoroughness on their part. USA Today exaggerated Butch's annual pay by almost $2M. If he serves the 6 years of his contract with no changes he will be paid a total of $18,200,000-- that's $3.03M per year.

If they want to generally critique the pay of college football coaches, fine (though they'd be wrong), but Butch is not even in your top 10 for that kind of assessment.

[Creek Walker]

I don't know who these guys are that you're talking about, but using that flawed USA Today salary report reflects either a lack of intelligence or a lack of thoroughness on their part. USA Today exaggerated Butch's annual pay by almost $2M. If he serves the 5 years of his contract with no changes he will be paid a total of $15,250,000-- that's $3.05M per year.

If they want to generally critique the pay of college football coaches, fine (though they'd be wrong), but Butch is not even in your top 10 for that kind of assessment.

I was thinking the same. Also, while I believe college coaches are overpaid in general, I can't help thinking that talk of schools over-paying coaches simply to sell hope to their fanbases is a fatally flawed theory. It just doesn't make much sense. Salary details often don't emerge for weeks after a coach is hired. Most of the fans have already made their mind up by then what they think of the hire. Are we really to think if news emerged three weeks after Butch Jones' hire that the school paid him $4+ million as opposed to $3 million that a lot of fans are gonna stop and say, "WHOA!! GIVE ME A BRICK WALL TO RUN THROUGH!!"

Kinda reminds me that I'm glad I don't listen to much daytime sports talk. Half of those guys couldn't carry the jock straps of us message board types when it comes to common sense. 

[VinnieVOL]

I really enjoy SVP & Rusillo.  Listen to the podcast just about everyday on the commute after work.  Obviously, one doesn't listen to these shows for deep insight.  It's pure entertainment.

[Creek Walker]

Obviously, one doesn't listen to these shows for deep insight.  It's pure entertainment.

Obviously I didn't think it was that obvious. 

[Clockwork Orange]

I was thinking the same. Also, while I believe college coaches are overpaid in general, I can't help thinking that talk of schools over-paying coaches simply to sell hope to their fanbases is a fatally flawed theory. It just doesn't make much sense. Salary details often don't emerge for weeks after a coach is hired. Most of the fans have already made their mind up by then what they think of the hire. Are we really to think if news emerged three weeks after Butch Jones' hire that the school paid him $4+ million as opposed to $3 million that a lot of fans are gonna stop and say, "WHOA!! GIVE ME A BRICK WALL TO RUN THROUGH!!"

Kinda reminds me that I'm glad I don't listen to much daytime sports talk. Half of those guys couldn't carry the jock straps of us message board types when it comes to common sense. 

I agree that "hope" is a stupid theory for college coach pay, though I don't think they're overpaid in general. Big time college football is a business with $100M or more in revenue at stake, and with that kind of money a school cannot afford to be loyal to failing coaches. The high salary is, in part, compensation for the long odds against longevity in a position that is associated with huge potential revenues.

[Creek Walker]

I agree that "hope" is a stupid theory for college coach pay, though I don't think they're overpaid in general. Big time college football is a business with $100M or more in revenue at stake, and with that kind of money a school cannot afford to be loyal to failing coaches. The high salary is, in part, compensation for the long odds against longevity in a position that is associated with huge potential revenues.

Relative to the overall business scheme of college football, I'll agree. I guess it would've been better phrased to have said that the big-business-ness of college football in general is what I have a problem with. Where does it end? If Texas offers Saban $7 million or $8 million and Saban accepts, it will be worth it in the grand scheme of things for Texas, because of what it guarantees the school in terms of revenue. But it also ushers in another step up the ladder. We've already priced out the common fan. I know a lot of dedicated football fans who never get to see a UT game unless it's against Austin Peay or UT-Martin or some other cream-puff. They've never been to a big-time SEC game and experienced the atmosphere, because they can't afford it. And it's only going to get worse. It's inevitable, of course, but it also makes me weary.

[volsboy]

Saban 5.1 million, Jones 3.3 million  I know who's getting the bargain.

[volsboy]

Russilo eluded to the fact that the athletic department is struggling financially at UT, and Van Pelt chimed in that they still have to pony-up for a coach and save money somewhere else.

[volsboy]

They were just singling out Jones and asking what has he done in the past on his resume to warrant this salary, among others. He is paid more than a lot of coaches with better track records. Didn't the Vols beat one of his "good" Cincinatti teams?

[volsboy]

It's just that for some coaches when they are hired it's like "lets give him this huge salary and then see what he can do". Sounds backwards, but that's how it is. Would a non-sports business do this? Let's pay this guy tons of money. We'll see if he can do the job later.

[Creek Walker]

The question is whether Dave Hart believed Butch Jones was the best viable candidate for the job. If that's true (and it sure as heck had better be true, since he hired Jones), then the next question is whether Jones would leave a very stable situation at Cincinnati to take over a very unstable position at Tennessee for $1.5 million or whatever they feel like he would've been worth. In fact, Tennessee wasn't the only school lobbying for Butch Jones' coaching services, which adds another wrinkle to the plot. If the answer to that last question is no, and I have to believe it would be, then Jones is not being overpaid at $3 million . . . not in the grand scheme of things.

Comparing Jones' $3 million to Saban's $5+ million is apples-oranges stuff. Obviously Saban is not overpaid (again, in the grand scheme of things given the business environment that CFB has become) because he generates more than enough money to justify what he is paid. If, on the other hand, Butch Jones wins a national championship at Tennessee at $3 million (which isn't going to happen at $3 million, because Tennessee is years away from that and if the program is showing progress he's going to get pay raises between now and then), obviously Tennessee has the better bargain of the two.

[Creek Walker]

Would a non-sports business do this? Let's pay this guy tons of money. We'll see if he can do the job later.

It happens every day. Look at some of the biggest corporate names in America for example. Starting salaries in any business, whether it's a college football program or a Fortune 500 company, are based as much on faith and potential as on past performance in another job capacity.

[volsboy]

Plus college fans expect success now. Is a coach really successful if he doesn't win an SEC championship? Forget about the NC. How many of these coaches in the SEC are considered really good and haven't even won an SEC championship. Of course Bama is making that hard for everyone to do.

[Creek Walker]

Take that a step further. Look at coaches like Mark Richt and his body of work, and a lot of UGA fans want him fired. I'm not saying I might not feel the same if I were in their shoes; there aren't many coaches who can do less with more the way Richt can (Muschamp is proving to be in that category, at least so far). But I think that's more of an indictment of where we're at as fans than anything else.