So who's lying?

[Creek Walker]

http://m.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/nov/30/agent-says-gruden-never-had-interest-vols-job-call/

Obviously someone has been or is lying...big time.

[SmokeyJoe]

All the loonies on the interwebz apparently :-(

[murfvol]

"Methinks thou doest protest too much." The agent certainly sounds like he's lying. There would be no reason for Hart to call if there was just a story circulating.  

That doesn't mean Gruden is coming, but the agent's statements as reported don't pass the sniff test.

[VinnieVOL]

Certainly makes me feel foolish.

[VoLynteer]

Everybody is lying.

[Creek Walker]

Obviously LaMonte is lying by acting as if this whole thing was just a huge rumor and there was never anything to it. The question is who else was lying. Hart? All the people claiming to have connections to boosters?

[TallVol]

I am truly not excited about any other HC possibility right now.  Maybe by the start of next season.  I am mad for allowing myself to get hopes up. 

[murfvol]

I know he's anathema to some here, but I think Clay Travis has been right on this. His theory that some prominent alums want Gruden and have done the legwork while Hart wants someone else makes sense.

It should be noted I have never met Hart, but if he is a super hard-headed guy (some stories make that appear to be the case) this absolutely makes sense.

[Creek Walker]

Gruden was by far my No. 1 choice. I never really thought it was likely that he would come to UT. I was told last week by someone who I trust that it was over and that person never wavered in that stance after that. That is now in line with the timeline Hubbs and Hyams are repeating though I still think they were being used (probably unwittingly) as a mouthpiece for the AD to some extent.

But I have pretty much reached IDGAF stage.

[PirateVOL]

I know he's anathema to some here, but I think Clay Travis has been right on this. His theory that some prominent alums want Gruden and have done the legwork while Hart wants someone else makes sense.

It should be noted I have never met Hart, but if he is a super hard-headed guy (some stories make that appear to be the case) this absolutely makes sense.

By all accounts, he is

[VinnieVOL]

I am truly not excited about any other HC possibility right now.  Maybe by the start of next season.  I am mad for allowing myself to get hopes up. 

Same.  At this moment I don't care who the next HC is.  And I don't plan on spending any time following the search.  I'm done.

[Flea]

All the loonies on the interwebz apparently :-(

^ This.  I am curious, though. If Hart's not been talking to Gruden, what HAS he been doing since Dooley was let go? Why the rush to fire Dooley before the last game?

[Mean Old Man]

This has been a huge coaching search soap opera (a combo of internet/rumor mill journalism, conflicting media reports, and silence from the AD). I cannot speak to all the conspiracy theories, etc. that some people are proposing, but the misinformation is staggering and I’ll be glad when it’s all said and done.

[murfvol]

If, and that's a big "IF", Hart has sowed misinformation (different from withholding information) he's made a lot of enemies he didn't need to make in the media. Deliberately making enemies rarely helps.

That doesn't affect this search, but it's not a plus down the road. Please the above is simply a steam-of-consciousness rambling based on my view from afar.

[BanditVol]

^ This.  I am curious, though. If Hart's not been talking to Gruden, what HAS he been doing since Dooley was let go? Why the rush to fire Dooley before the last game?

Last game?  Lol!  There were tons of fans wanting him fired after your game or halftime at USC or you name it. .  

That hart held out as long as he did is amazing even to me. Just mo but had we won the last three dooley would still be our coach. It would have then happened after Missouri but Hart wanted a bowl game.  AgainJMO...but you are the only one saying a post vandy firing was a "rush".

[Inspector Vol]

Last game?  Lol!  There were tons of fans wanting him fired after your game or halftime at USC or you named it. . 

That hart held out as long as he did is amazing even to me. Just mo but had we won the last three dooley would still be our coach. It would have then happened after Missouri but hat wanted a bowl game.  Again jmo...but you are the only one saying a post vandy firing was a "rush".

I knew he was done after the UF game. A good coach and we win that game handily. After that the MSU game he should have been left in Mississippi.

[73Volgrad]

No one is lying.  Everyone is simply telling their view of the story.  If you look at the wording and phrases both sides used, both are telling the truth.

Did anyone  from UT with the authority to sign a contract contact the agent and negotiate a deal? No. I think that it true. 
Did a booster or group of boosters contact the agent and try to negotiate a deal? Neither side answered that.  I find it more than plausible and all most definite that a booster group inquired about money and terms.
Did UT lawyers and UTAD personnel without direct command of Hart examine the demand sheet and raise questions the booster took back? I also find this plausible so it still allows Hart and the agent to deny contact, negotiations, or an offer.
Did the agent believe that UT was interested enough to gauge Gruden's choice to proceed of pass along no? Again plausible and allows him to say their was no official offer from UT and Jon says "No Thanks".
Did UT lawyers and UTAD personnel then approach Hart about the possibility and offer advice on possible bargaining points?  Thus Hart's call to agent today after a media feeding frenzy that was out of hand.  Since this was the first official contact from Hart and UT, what Hart said is the truth.

So no one is lying. It's just that no one is likely telling the whole truth. In big business, a half-truth is not a lie.

[midtnvol]

^ This.  I am curious, though. If Hart's not been talking to Gruden, what HAS he been doing since Dooley was let go? Why the rush to fire Dooley before the last game?

So we wouldn't go winless in the SEC for the first time ever.

[BanditVol]

I knew he was done after the UF game. A good coach and we win that game handily. After that the MSU game he should have been left in Mississippi.

No disrespect, but I think you would like to fire a coach after one bad play, based on your remarks during some of the games.   

I had doubts about Dooley when he was hired.  I had further doubts after the LSU debacle, which, whatever the details, was the ultimate responsibility of the HC.  I had doubts about his game management skills throughout his first season, in which we often let up at times, such as near the end of the game or the half, as if the other team was not going to bother to score, and then they would.  Oregon at the end of the half is the one I recall, but it bit us against UNC in the bowl game.  For all the fuss over the penalty FUBAR, we gave up a frickin 30+ yard pass play on their first play of that drive that NEVER should have happened!   


These concerns only grew worse during his second season, when he often made strange calls in the game and indefnsible personnel decisions (starting Worley against USCe when he had yet to attempt an NCAA pass, going for it on 4th from deep in his own territory with the game still in the balance, etc, etc).   These unfortunately culminated in thedesertion of most of his staff and the loss to UK, which were probably related.

At that point, the handwriting was on the wall.  That didn't stop me from rooting for the team as hard as I could this year.  It helped that the offense, particularly the running game, was so much improved from last year.  In spite of my reservations as to Dooley and the drumbeat of losses, some of which should have been wins, I did credit him and/or the staff with building our offse into something very respectable.  In fact, it was one of the top offenses in the SEC. 

The Sunseri experiment was having growing pains, but that's to be expected with a complete reboot of a coaching staff and a new scheme all at once.  I retained hope because it was possible, or so I thought, that the D might start to "get it" and gell at midseason.  Didn't happen!  And the rest is history.

But for the record, I didn't think he was likely to be fired until after Missouri.  The end of that game finally removed all doubt in my mind.   And I applaud Hart for letting it play out.  Firing someone at halftime of a game, which I am sure is not a serious suggestion by you, is probably not a good idea, and neither is firing someone in October.  Just MO and your's may vary, but that's okay. 

[Creek Walker]

No one is lying.  Everyone is simply telling their view of the story.  If you look at the wording and phrases both sides used, both are telling the truth.

Did anyone  from UT with the authority to sign a contract contact the agent and negotiate a deal? No. I think that it true. 
Did a booster or group of boosters contact the agent and try to negotiate a deal? Neither side answered that.  I find it more than plausible and all most definite that a booster group inquired about money and terms.
Did UT lawyers and UTAD personnel without direct command of Hart examine the demand sheet and raise questions the booster took back? I also find this plausible so it still allows Hart and the agent to deny contact, negotiations, or an offer.
Did the agent believe that UT was interested enough to gauge Gruden's choice to proceed of pass along no? Again plausible and allows him to say their was no official offer from UT and Jon says "No Thanks".
Did UT lawyers and UTAD personnel then approach Hart about the possibility and offer advice on possible bargaining points?  Thus Hart's call to agent today after a media feeding frenzy that was out of hand.  Since this was the first official contact from Hart and UT, what Hart said is the truth.

So no one is lying. It's just that no one is likely telling the whole truth. In big business, a half-truth is not a lie.

We don't know all of that to be fact. We have the report of a reputable journalist at a reputable newspaper saying that Gruden had an offer in hand. Presumably, it has to go through the AD to get that far. Regardless, LaMonte's claim that the Gruden speculation is coming from "a fantasy world" is implying that all this speculation was merely the wishful thinking of a bunch of internet message board posters. And that's 100 percent malarkey.