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I haven't been around much lately and I hate that my re-entry is beginning with a negative rant, but I gotta do what I do.  (Next rant will be positive about Butch).  I will present the pros and cons of the petition, but I've made my thesis statement clear. 

Pros:

1) I loved the Bruce Pearl era.  The enthusiasm that he brought to the program and the school was unbelievable.  The last Vols b-ball game I went to was with Clockwork, Volznut and BDV and it was against Texas when Kevin Durant was there.  This was the best college hoops game that I've ever been to.  The excitement in the arena was awesome.  Pearl may be the best coach that UT has ever had.  Ray Mears was a good coach but he coached in an era when only 1 team went from each conference every year and usually that was Kentucky.  The Bernie and Ernie years were awesome.  Don Devoe was a good, maybe great, Xs and Os coach, but he couldn't recruit worth a crap.  The Jerry Green years were fun but as I've stated before, it was fools gold. 

2)  Like all of you, I agonized about all of the terrible losses that happened under Cuonzo.  I remember getting swept one year by a terrible Texas A&M team.  That 39-38 loss to Georgetown was almost unwatchable.   In addition, the Vols played a boring style for fans, the Georgetown game being a great example. 

Cons:

1)  When fans started that petition, there were still 6 games left in the regular season. / http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/02/17/bring-back-bruce-petition/5564031 (http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/02/17/bring-back-bruce-petition/5564031).  As it turned out, the Vols went on a run after that and acquitted themselves quite nobly in the SEC and NCAA Tournament.  The fact that many fans had given up on them already was sad. 

2)  Bruce Pearl was never coming back.  I remember seeing posts by Herb, who is as much an insider as anyone here, that the UT admin was never going to let him back after all of his shenanigans.  He was absolutely right.  He was a great coach at UT, done in by his arrogance and hubris.  I didn't really worry about it when he did all kind of minorly disgraceful things ( cheating on his wife and getting divorced, getting thrown out of a West game for making an ass of himself, etc).  And the rule he violated was admittedly a chickensh*t one.  The NCAA has many of those.  But, as Martha Stewart or Richard Nixon (and your mama) could have told him, it's the lying that gets you.  Saying as you're committing the violation "I'm not supposed to have juniors at this BBQ but I'm sure you won't tell anybody, lol"  That was the arrogance and foolish because who in their right mind would trust a teenage boy with a secret?  So, OK, it's a minor violation, but then the NCAA came around and he lied about it.  And he continued to lie about it until he couldn't lie about it anymore.  This is not a little thing.  He got a 3 year show cause penalty which only happens to the worst offenders.  No way UT was going to hire him back after disgracing the school.

3) Cuonzo was a good guy and a pretty good coach.  He didn't have an offensive style that was pretty but he did enough to get us in the tourney.  The run they went on after that petition I think shows how the players felt about him.  The fact that a couple of players transferred after he left and we lost the entire incoming freshman crop that Cuonzo had already recruited shows that as well.  I'll briefly bring up the racial aspect even though I don't think that was a major thing.  I think some if not all of the kids that transferred and decommited did.

4)  It was a crappy ting to do to a coach that had worked hard to be successful at UT but had had mixed success.  I know some UT fans that said "It doesn't matter that we won't get Pearl.  We'll get Greg Marshall from Wichita St.  Wrong.  Coaches stick together and there is no way Marshall or any other highly respected coach would have come here after doing our last coach that way.  It just made the fanbase look bad.

Conclusion:  We embarrassed ourself for no reason and ran a coach that got us to the Sweet 16 last year off.  I'm not anti-Tyndall, but he was the best we could get after all of the good coaches were gone.

Bruce Pearl wasn't coming back last year, and Cuonzo Martin isn't coming back now. He's happily the coach at Cal and the past is past. This issue was long ago embalmed, put in the casket and bedded with the worms.

(Besides, Donnie Tyndall is a better coach than Cuonzo Martin.)

Welcome back Jethro. Yeah, that petition was kinda juvenile IMHO.

I didn't sign the petition, but I understand why many of those who did sign it felt the need to do so. 

That said, how in the hell can you say that Double Live Cuonzo was "run off" when the powers that be offered him a half million dollar raise and an extension to stay based primarily on one month of work out of 3 years that he was here?  He did essentially nothing for the other 35 of 36 months.   If that's being run off, where to I sign up for that one? 

And it's good to see you, Jethro.   :clap:

I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think Tyndall is a better coach than Cuonzo.

Good to see you too, Herb but you know as well as I do that that petition was a slap in the face, regardless of whatever contract extension he had available.  Who would want to stay at a school as a coach when the fans have thrown you under the bus, regardless of your status with the administration.

There is a hell of lot of evidence that Donnie Knoxville can actually coach and make adjustments.  Frankly, even in the run last year I NEVER observed an ability to adjust EVER by Cuonzo.
Besides, offense was a four letter word, to be avoided,  to the current Cal coach.

Pretty much spot on Jethro.  Cuonzo deserved better though Pearl was going to be a tough, if not impossible act to follow for anyone.

Jethro - have you seen the band of rag tag castoffs that Tyndall has taken and actually made a competitive team?  Martin rarely ever made any in game adjustments, and up until late last season his players played with less fire and urgency than even Wade Houston coached teams.  Martin just wasn't a very good basketball coach.  

The fact that Tyndall has these guys in games is proof that he knows what he is doing.  

On your other reply to me, we all get a "slap in the face" some times.  Some have the intestinal fortitude to take that slap on head on.  Martin didn't.  He chose to turn tail and run, in spite of the fact that the powers that be - the people who make the decisions - were firmly behind him.  That's all on Martin.  

Tyndall coaches circles around CCM. When CDT gets better talent we will be one of the top teams in the SEC. Highly impressed with CDT's coaching.

The team last season for the last 3 weeks played pi$$ed off because what was being said and written about them.....good for them. If they had taken that attitude the whole season and the season before their coach might still be here. Up until that last 3 weeks they were hard to watch.

To build on what Herb and Phil said -- the argument that everyone uses that UT fans shouldn't have been upset with Martin is the Sweet 16 run at the end of the season. I think there's a strong argument to be made that if it wasn't for the petition (and just the attitude of the fans in general), UT wouldn't have made the run to the Sweet 16. For whatever reason, all the talk about firing Martin lit a fire under the players that Martin hadn't previously been able to light.

I didn't sign the petition because I think petitions are dumb as a general rule, but it's just a fact of this business that fans who pay the salaries of the coaches demand success. As long as these coaches keep becoming millionaires to coach college kids, I have no problem with them facing criticism when they aren't performing well.

Even with three years to establish his system and build the team with his players, how many wins did Martin have that were on par with the win Tyndall picked up last week? His first-year win over UConn would probably rank up there...the UVA win last season turned out to be a big one, although UVA wasn't really on anyone's radar at the time. Tyndall is competing with a team that is literally pieced and patched together. That's impressive.

Zo did NOT get it done and ran when the going got tough.  Good riddance

His final tournament run was the second best in Vol history and speaks for itself.

Impatient, spoiled fans are IMO the number 1 reason our football team has been in a dumpster for the last 5-6 years.  Would hate to see bball go the same way.

Donnie Tyndall so far does seem a good coach.  Just hope he can dodge the NC2A

So the impatient fans were the ones who made the Kiffin and Dooley hires?

UT basketball fans are not spoiled, Bandit, and in fact they have been kicked right squarely in the balls more times than any other fan base in the SEC, the way I see it.  In spite of having to endure the Houston years, put up with that moron O'Neill, Jerry Green's antics, Boring Buzzball, Pearl's ego and lying that got him canned, through Cuonzo Martin's tenure - UT basketball fans have remained loyal and kept UT near the top of the SEC and near the top of the NCAA in attendance year after year throughout all of the bullshizzle that has gone on with the program.  UT basketball fans have been way more than patient, considering the way that administrators and coached have dropped the ball time after time again.  

Donnie Knoxville can flat out coach basketball.  I just hope that whatever happens with the NCAA issues while at Southern Miss aren't too much to be able to salvage him.  UT fans have been kicked enough as it is.  

i'm impatient yes.  But I also know when a coach is in over his head, as Zo was

^Boom! :thumbup:

I am not a spoiled UT basketball fan. I just know Zo was a terrible game day coach and the players would sometimes win in spite of ineffective coaching. I thought the late season run was an aberration of his skills because he could never inspire the kids to play with any passion. Zo is a good person, just a mediocre coach. UT did not hire him to be a decent guy. If you are going to make the money he was paid, you gotta take the good with the bad. He could see the writing on the wall that this team was going to lose all the star power, scoring, and rebounding and he had recruited little skill to replace them. When given the opportunity to run, he did. Facts are facts. He had the opportunity to stay and he bailed.

Frankly, I did not want Pearl back, because I cannot stand a liar. He was severely punished because the NCAA had to chance to punish him for turning in the Illinois coach and having to punish a Big10 power. The UT President by way of Illinois had a chance to stick it to Pearl and he did out off spite and vindictiveness. I did not sign the petition because I knew Zo would flame out on his own this year at UT or would bolt for another job at the first opportunity. I would be more ashamed of supporting a quitter.

Pretty much dead on the money. 

They demanded it, in fact.

as if they had a direct say :rolleyes:

Who did?  :confused:  I still have texts at the shock after both hires.  In fact, I don't recall Dooley even being mentioned as a serious candidate prior to the announcement of his hiring.  Your memory of those two hires sure is different than mine.  I know of no Vols fans who demanded their hiring.  That is totally different from wanting a previous coach gone.

 :dielaughing: 

Jethro, Cuonzo didn't like it at UT. He was looking for a way out. I have read that he actually started looking around way before any petition. I think he did a decent job of player development, but I didn't think he was a good game day coach. He also pretty much stopped recruiting, which is a sign that he didn't see himself here very long.

I think Tyndall is a good coach, but I'm not sure how long we'll be able to keep him with the NCAA crap coming our way.

They created a situation where those two were hired.  Many of the most vocal critics of Fulmer were actually thrilled with Kiffin, and to this day state that they think he was doing a good job. 

As for Dooley, what coach would want to come to the dumpster fire Tennessee had become?  We ran off an MNC-winning coach and his idiot successor left just prior to signing day.  Less whining about the final Fulmer years and more patience would not have led to that situation.

Bandit, Your MNC-winning coach had become an after thought in the coaching community because he surrounded himself with mostly (not all) incompetent assistant coaches. He was not able to attract difference makers and the ones he could get never developed. Fulmer lost his eye for talent and they started going elsewhere.  As soon as Cutcliffe left for the last time, there went the actual head coach for the team. Fulmer's time passed and it was time for him to go. He just had to be pushed out the door because he did not realize that the people he had around him were going to cause his downfall. The game had passed him by. The game had evolved and Fulmer did not change. The real problems are in the top administration at UT. Hamilton was a fund raiser out of his league as AD and the Chancellor actually ran the department and probably still does. I do not think Hart makes any major policy or personnel decisions except with the approval of the UT administrator placed in his department. Hart is a figurehead in place to take all the blame if anything goes bad.

Yes I was one who thought Fulmer should have been replaced, but 3-4 years earlier. I thought Kiffiin was a desperate and bone-headed hire. Dooley was just beyond any classification in stupidity. Hamilton should have been fired for cause and given no money to leave. People still whining about Fulmer need to stop living in the past and past glories because the future is now.

Yep. As I have stated before on this forum, firing Fulmer wasn't the mistake. It was time for him to go.  The mistake was in hiring an unproved and immature coach like Lane Kiffin, and then following him up with a smart assed rat bastard prick like Derek Dooley.  Mike Hamilton was way in over his head in making football hires. 

I respect your opinion, but totally disagree.  The fans did not create that situation; the former head coach and AD did.  If the AD let the fans dictate his decisions, and I don't think he did, that's on him, not them.

I had no real thoughts on Kiffin at the time. He thrilled me early with his brash attitude and his recruiting prowess. But I quickly became weary of his lame approach. He lost me completely with the gas-pumping comment. There's no doubt Kiffin was a good game day coach at Tennessee. There's also no doubt that he was good at getting highly-rated recruits to sign on the dotted line. (It's hard to call him a good recruiter, since the guys he pursued ultimately didn't pan out.) In hindsight, though, the bottom line is that Kiffin just was not a fit for Tennessee. Not culturally, not geographically, and not in any other manner. That has to be a part of it. Coaches have to "fit" their programs. That's a big part of why Kiffin ultimately jumped the first ship that sailed by the harbor, but it's also a big part of why he managed to alienate former players and a lot of other people around the program, because UT's tradition meant squat to him. It was a terrible hire by Hamilton. And, again, hindsight is a powerful tool to have, but it's hard to imagine that UT couldn't have made a better hire at that time. Despite two losing seasons in four years, Tennessee was still Tennessee.

The Kiffin train wreck likely would have made it impossible to hire a good coach the next year, but Hamilton managed to go even further when he hired Dooley. I liked Dooley because he said all the right things at his press conference. He had all the makings of a southern "gentleman," with good football pedigree and a rich tradition in SEC football. Plus he was not David Cutcliffe, who it had appeared just a couple of days earlier that UT was going to hire . . . a hire that I was opposed to (probably for all the wrong reasons). But the Dooley hire was a tremendous leap of faith for Hamilton. This is a guy who had a losing record at a mid-major. It was akin to Auburn's hire of Gene Chizik...that led to a national championship for Auburn, but only because he surrounded himself with the right people (namely, Gus Malzahn). Dooley lacked the competence to hire a staff that could cover up his shortcomings. He further deteriorated UT's already fragile relationship with high school coaches in the region, continued to alienate the football alumni, and his complete inability to recruit set the program back several seasons.

Hamilton was a numbers guy. That's what he was known for — improving the AD's bottom line. Much of that was due to his ability to fund-raise, but it was also partially due to his ability to manage budgets. I sincerely think that Hamilton hit a home run with the hire of Bruce Pearl and convinced himself that he could do the same thing in football...so he went after two bargain basement hires and struck out swinging on both of them. THAT is what set this program back...not the firing of Fulmer. I love Coach Fulmer and what he meant to Tennessee football for so many years, but if anything, the fact that he held on until the bitter end in '08 set the program back more than if he had retired in '07 or '05. Going through the doldrums of a transition was inevitable. Remember, many fans warned that UT might need a hire or two to get it right. It had happened to the SEC's biggest heavyweights over the preceding two decades. Sometimes a change results in temporary setback, even if it was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do, but an incompetent athletics director was the biggest reason why we're still struggling to recover from that change.

Hammy screwed up the firing of Fulmer as well ...