What is the over and under for

[73Volgrad]

how many UT fans on this and other message boards lose their minds and total lack of control when Gruden is not named the next HC tomorrow? Just asking because I just do not think Gruden will come here. If I am wrong, I will be wrong and will admit it.  I just do not think it is going to happen.  Unless Hart can find a huge pot of money, it is just a pipe dream and no better than fantasy football.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Uh, who said it was going to happen tomorrow?  Even if Dooley is fired tomorrow, I don't think they'll officially name a replacement until after the season.

[volmeister]

how many UT fans on this and other message boards lose their minds and total lack of control when Gruden is not named the next HC tomorrow? Just asking because I just do not think Gruden will come here. If I am wrong, I will be wrong and will admit it.  I just do not think it is going to happen.  Unless Hart can find a huge pot of money, it is just a pipe dream and no better than fantasy football.

I agree, the best we can hope for, is that a semisuccessful midmajor coach will agree come here.  No way should we go after a big name. :(

[Black Diamond Vol]

I agree, the best we can hope for, is that a semisuccessful midmajor coach will agree come here.  No way should we go after a big name. :(

No kidding.  I just hope Haslam and Thornton are able to come up with the dough for George Quarles' buyout.  Do you think we can possibly outbid Maryville for him?

[volmeister]

No kidding.  I just hope Haslam and Thornton are able to come up with the dough for George Quarles' buyout.  Do you think we can possibly outbid Maryville for him?

I agree BDV.  I get tired of this attitude that we can't attract successful coaches here. No point in even trying. One thing is for sure, they won't come if we don't offer.

[TheRealOrange]

I agree BDV.  I get tired of this attitude that we can't attract successful coaches here. No point in even trying. One thing is for sure, they won't come if we don't offer.

Who has that attitude?  I certainly haven't seen it expressed.  I hope the UTAD tries for and lands the most successful coach available, assuming Dooley is let go.  Whether that is Gruden, as to his overall success in the NFL and whether he would ultimately be worth the expected cost, is certainly debatable.  And, given that his and other big names have been mentioned as being contacted in the past, who's to say that Hamilton didn't try and fail to land him/them when Fulmer was canned and Kiffin was hired, and when Kiffin left and Dooley was hired?  It sure seemed like there were a lot of unofficial turn downs behind the scenes in both cases.  I think that is one reason Hamilton settled for Kiffin and got scared and made Dooley his panic hire.  Perhaps it was a matter of poor timing when Kiffin bolted, and Hart will be in a better position to negotiate and make a better hire. 

[UTnbama]

how many UT fans on this and other message boards lose their minds and total lack of control when Gruden is not named the next HC tomorrow? Just asking because I just do not think Gruden will come here. If I am wrong, I will be wrong and will admit it.  I just do not think it is going to happen.  Unless Hart can find a huge pot of money, it is just a pipe dream and no better than fantasy football.

 Money is not going to be a problem for us this time around, I think the UT Admin has finally learned that lesson! If Gruden would be "willing" to come to UT as head coach, then I think he "would be" UT's next head coach. Part of the problem with naming a new head coach is that we currently have a head coach, and he may or may not be fired tomorrow or any time soon.
  I still don't think UT fires Dooley before we have a strong committed candidate standing in the wings (I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time). Then it will be a while before the new coach (whomever it may be) is named. UT wouldn't want to name a replacement so soon as to appear to have had an agreement before Dooley was fired. However, the sooner a head coach is named, the sooner he can get things together and start recruiting.
  Maybe it's just me (I hope I dead wrong) but it's hard for me to see Gruden giving up a cream puff, almost part time gig, that pays him around $4 million to come to UT and go thru all that he would have to go thru to make this program the success it needs to be, and the fans want it to be. Unless he understands that these talking head jobs on tv often have short life spans. I also think that a pro job would even be easier for Gruden in some respects, and pay more. So, if he comes here I'll dance a jig, but he doesn't, life still goes on.

[BanditVol]

Uh, who said it was going to happen tomorrow? 

Quite a few people on Volnation and other sites, and if I wasn't lazy, I could maybe find a couple here.

Since you asked.   

[ChattanoogaVol]

how many UT fans on this and other message boards lose their minds and total lack of control when Gruden is not named the next HC tomorrow? Just asking because I just do not think Gruden will come here. If I am wrong, I will be wrong and will admit it.  I just do not think it is going to happen.  Unless Hart can find a huge pot of money, it is just a pipe dream and no better than fantasy football.

If they keep Dooley i will almost for sure drop my season tickets next year, I just cannot stand to keep spending the money, the time, or the effort that I have spent on UT Football the last 10 years...................for the CRAP PLAY I SEE THERE NOW

 

[Black Diamond Vol]

Quite a few people on Volnation and other sites, and if I wasn't lazy, I could maybe find a couple here.

Since you asked.  

I don't read VN, but I sure haven't seen anyone here say that Gruden will be named tomorrow.  Now there is speculation that Dooley could be fired by then, as I said.

[PirateVOL]

 Money is not going to be a problem for us this time around, I think the UT Admin has finally learned that lesson! If Gruden would be "willing" to come to UT as head coach, then I think he "would be" UT's next head coach. Part of the problem with naming a new head coach is that we currently have a head coach, and he may or may not be fired tomorrow or any time soon.
  I still don't think UT fires Dooley before we have a strong committed candidate standing in the wings (I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time). Then it will be a while before the new coach (whomever it may be) is named. UT wouldn't want to name a replacement so soon as to appear to have had an agreement before Dooley was fired. However, the sooner a head coach is named, the sooner he can get things together and start recruiting.
  Maybe it's just me (I hope I dead wrong) but it's hard for me to see Gruden giving up a cream puff, almost part time gig, that pays him around $4 million to come to UT and go thru all that he would have to go thru to make this program the success it needs to be, and the fans want it to be. Unless he understands that these talking head jobs on tv often have short life spans. I also think that a pro job would even be easier for Gruden in some respects, and pay more. So, if he comes here I'll dance a jig, but he doesn't, life still goes on.

That is my issue with Hamilton.  When he fired Fulmer (IMO emotionally) he really had no apparnetly plan.  It was like Ok, I just fired Fulmer now what do I do, oh yeah look for another coach.
Kiffin leaving was a different issue in that the quickness in his departure and timming were difficult factors against us.  That still doesn't mean Hamilton had a freaking clue what he was doing.  In the end I believed at the time and now it was a panic hire.

[TheRealOrange]

Quite a few people on Volnation and other sites, and if I wasn't lazy, I could maybe find a couple here.

Since you asked.   

Fair enough, I guess.  I meant here, since I do not visit any other Vols sites besides utsports.com.  I don't think people here believe that "we can't attract successful coaches here," as was stated in the post I quoted.  Many believe it is more complex than simply throwing money at a big name guy, or the guy wanted by fans, and I agree with that.

[BanditVol]

Now there is speculation that Dooley could be fired by then, as I said.

That's the part I was responding to.  There have been numerous suggestions that Dooley could be let go as early as tomorrow.  I am pretty sure there are a few below...

Looking back, I see that 73 was mostly talking about Gruden being hired and doesn't even mention Dooley being fired, so I was a bit off-target.

[TheRealOrange]

That's the part I was responding to.  There have been numerous suggestions that Dooley could be let go as early as tomorrow.  I am pretty sure there are a few below...

My bad with my previous post.  I thought you were responding to me.   

[UTnbama]

That is my issue with Hamilton.  When he fired Fulmer (IMO emotionally) he really had no apparnetly plan.  It was like Ok, I just fired Fulmer now what do I do, oh yeah look for another coach.
Kiffin leaving was a different issue in that the quickness in his departure and timming were difficult factors against us.  That still doesn't mean Hamilton had a freaking clue what he was doing.  In the end I believed at the time and now it was a panic hire.

Totally agree!

[VinnieVOL]

Totally agree!

Yep, and it's wrong to assume Hart is mishandling things if he cuts Dooley loose before season's end.  I personally don't think he will do so until he has a replacement lined up.

[volmeister]

Who has that attitude?  I certainly haven't seen it expressed.  I hope the UTAD tries for and lands the most successful coach available, assuming Dooley is let go.  Whether that is Gruden, as to his overall success in the NFL and whether he would ultimately be worth the expected cost, is certainly debatable.  And, given that his and other big names have been mentioned as being contacted in the past, who's to say that Hamilton didn't try and fail to land him/them when Fulmer was canned and Kiffin was hired, and when Kiffin left and Dooley was hired?  It sure seemed like there were a lot of unofficial turn downs behind the scenes in both cases.  I think that is one reason Hamilton settled for Kiffin and got scared and made Dooley his panic hire.  Perhaps it was a matter of poor timing when Kiffin bolted, and Hart will be in a better position to negotiate and make a better hire. 

Come on TRO. When have we ever offered the kind of money that would attract a home run hire?  When have we ever pursued a coach with we won't take no for an answer  ala Mal Moore?  Hamilton got lucky with Pearl and thought he could strike gold again by going in cheap with Kiffin and Dooley. The result is the disaster we find ourselves in today. Meanwhile the Alabamas, Oklahomas and Ohio States of the world pay big bucks and get what they pay for.

[TheRealOrange]

Come on TRO. When have we ever offered the kind of money that would attract a home run hire?  When have we ever pursued a coach with we won't take no for an answer  ala Mal Moore?  Hamilton got lucky with Pearl and thought he could strike gold again by going in cheap with Kiffin and Dooley. The result is the disaster we find ourselves in today. Meanwhile the Alabamas, Oklahomas and Ohio States of the world pay big bucks and get what they pay for.

How am supposed to know (or you) what was discussed and offered to the big names in the past?  If we assume that none of the big names mentioned pre-Kiffin and pre-Dooley were true, and no contacts were made, then I guess we can assume that kind of effort was not made and big money was not offered.  I tend to think that the effort was made and big money was offered and was turned down when Fulmer was fired and Hamilton was caught off guard when they declined.  Kiffin was a choice of last resort, or at least he seemed to be.  You mention the highly payed coaches who worked out.  How many are paid big bucks and fail (especially NFL to college and vice versa)?  If that happens at UT, the fans will go even more crazy than they are now.  In the end, I say go for it and get the best coach, not biggest name coach, you can get and let the chips fall where they may.  It could get worse, but probably not much. 

[73Volgrad]

All my post concerns is that many on this board and other boards are so sure Dooley will be fired by Monday and Gruden will accept the job immediately.  I have read many posts from posters with inside information from reliable sources that "It is a done deal" and "Dooley is gone".  The truth is only the high levels of UT administration (President and Chancellor)  and the Athletics Board know what is going on.  IMO Hart will not or cannot fire Dooley or hire a new Head Coach without directive or approval from his line management.  Firing coaches (@ $5 to 9 million) and hiring new ones (@ at least $10 million) is going to cost a pile of money that the Athletics Department and the University do not have right now.  Some millionaire donor is going to have to pony up big bucks. No one stepped forward to pay Fulmer's and his coaches salaries, or Pearl's salary or the baseball coaches.

A lot of the big money people that donated to UT were in real estate and lost all their cash (like Thunder Thorton).  I just think it is a pipe dream and lost hope that someone is going to give UT a big pile of money to dig them out of this quagmire.  It just not likely to happen.  If it does, fine. But do not hold your breath.

Nothing is going to happen until the end of the season. That is my belief.  So unless you people with inside information give up your source of information, all you are spreading is rumor. If you cannot name your source, I just believe it is a lie. Sorry if I upset you, but in my 61 years on this earth, most information from unnamed source is just hot air and nowhere near the truth.  When I hear it from Hart, I will believe and not until then.  So you just keep living in your fantasy worlds because I have to live in the reality of this world taking care of my sick wife. 

[VinnieVOL]

All my post concerns is that many on this board and other boards are so sure Dooley will be fired by Monday and Gruden will accept the job immediately.  I have read many posts from posters with inside information from reliable sources that "It is a done deal" and "Dooley is gone".  The truth is only the high levels of UT administration (President and Chancellor)  and the Athletics Board know what is going on.  IMO Hart will not or cannot fire Dooley or hire a new Head Coach without directive or approval from his line management.  Firing coaches (@ $5 to 9 million) and hiring new ones (@ at least $10 million) is going to cost a pile of money that the Athletics Department and the University do not have right now.  Some millionaire donor is going to have to pony up big bucks. No one stepped forward to pay Fulmer's and his coaches salaries, or Pearl's salary or the baseball coaches.

A lot of the big money people that donated to UT were in real estate and lost all their cash (like Thunder Thorton).  I just think it is a pipe dream and lost hope that someone is going to give UT a big pile of money to dig them out of this quagmire.  It just not likely to happen.  If it does, fine. But do not hold your breath.

Nothing is going to happen until the end of the season. That is my belief.  So unless you people with inside information give up your source of information, all you are spreading is rumor. If you cannot name your source, I just believe it is a lie. Sorry if I upset you, but in my 61 years on this earth, most information from unnamed source is just hot air and nowhere near the truth.  When I hear it from Hart, I will believe and not until then.  So you just keep living in your fantasy worlds because I have to live in the reality of this world taking care of my sick wife. 

While I disagree, I can totally understand your point of view and I respect it as well.  Time will tell how it plays out.

[Creek Walker]

Dooley's buyout is a non-factor. Because if it were a factor, Tennessee would be committed to keeping him not one, but TWO more seasons. That isn't happening.

I'm one of those who has speculated that Dooley will be fired this week. Right or wrong, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. If we don't have an announcement by Tuesday, it isn't happening this week. I've never been one of those people who claim to have sources or an inside scoop, but to say those who do are lying because they aren't naming their sources is silly. Some of these people citing sources can't be trusted; some can. Rarely are any of them right all the time. You learn who to trust by their track record, but none of them are going to name their sources . . . because obviously if they did then those sources wouldn't be sources anymore.

What I can say with absolute certainty is that at least some of the players believe that there will be an announcement this week. They may be totally wrong, but what does it say that they haven't received assurance from their coaches that this thing is going to end favorably for the coaches? Maybe nothing; maybe a lot.

[BanditVol]

Dooley's buyout is a non-factor. Because if it were a factor, Tennessee would be committed to keeping him not one, but TWO more seasons. That isn't happening.

SEVEN of his assistants have contracts that expire next year (2013) and do not then require a buyout.   Of the remaining two, one expires this year and is a non-factor either way, while the other is a 3-year contract (Chaney).  The assistants add ~ $4 million to the buyout cost.

I am not sure what Dooley's buyout is this season vs. next, but IIRC, he makes $2 million a year for 6 years, and I have heard that this season it's $5 million.  So I would guess it goes down by a year's salary per year, reducing the total buyout by $2 million. 

So...next year...the cost goes down from $9.3 million to  $3-4 million if I am correct.  Big difference IYAM.

[PirateVOL]

SEVEN of his assistants have contracts that expire next year (2013) and do not then require a buyout.   Of the remaining two, one expires this year and is a non-factor either way, while the other is a 3-year contract (Chaney).  The assistants add ~ $4 million to the buyout cost.

I am not sure what Dooley's buyout is this season vs. next, but IIRC, he makes $2 million a year for 6 years, and I have heard that this season it's $5 million.  So I would guess it goes down by a year's salary per year, reducing the total buyout by $2 million. 

So...next year...the cost goes down from $9.3 million to  $3-4 million if I am correct.  Big difference IYAM.

I think I saw somewhere where the buyout drops $500K next year.

[Creek Walker]

I'm too lazy to look it up (it's almost time to turn on TWD on the DVR) but IIRC, the buyout for Dooley dropped from $5m to $4m after last season and remains at $4m for the duration of his contract.

Something else that has to be taken into consideration is just how much it will cost to keep Dooley for even one more year. Even if Tennessee wins out, which I don't believe will happen, the apathy in this fanbase will be at an all-time high next season. We had one freakin' sellout this season (unless Alabama finally sold out; I don't recall). We aren't going to come close to that next season. Fewer butts in seats at Neyland Stadium has a ripple effect that impacts more than just ticket office revenues. Then there is the impact poor recruiting for the '13 and '14 classes will have for the next several years. Dooley still has time to close nicely with this class, but the current results won't get it done.

[BanditVol]

I'm too lazy to look it up (it's almost time to turn on TWD on the DVR) but IIRC, the buyout for Dooley dropped from $5m to $4m after last season and remains at $4m for the duration of his contract.

I think I saw that also.  So it may only be a savings of ~1 million for this year vs. next.  That actually isn't worth worrying about, IF we even have it right.

But there is  no question we save ~ $4 million on assistant coach contracts by waiting till next year.  I have a post on that below.