Rather than continue posting in the multitude of Jones threads

[Clockwork Orange]

I'll just drop my views on here and leave it at that. Otherwise I'll just appear as apologist or naysayer, depending on the thread.

I'm not happy in the least that things came to this, and the only way to say it is that the hiring process was, once gain, fizzleed up by our administration . . . this time with a new AD. You can tell me all you want that the UT job is not as attractive as it once was, but it's still a great job by any objective measure. The money is here, the fan support is here, the tradition is here, and we play in the best conference in football. It's the opportunity of a lifetime for nearly anyone. So we are where we are because we were unwilling to make something better happen.

With that said, if you are going to go to your B list . . . after Gruden, Patterson, Gundy, etc. are no longer options . . . then Jones is not a bad selection in the end. I don't actually put him that much below Strong, who was a low A-lister at best IMO. He is far from a sure thing and I have tremendous doubts, but when you fall to your backup options that is what you are left with.

The reasons to doubt:

* That 4-8 season at Cincy.

* He was an assistant for Kelly at CMU, took over his program there, then took over Kelly's program at Cincy. Did he win because of Kelly's infrastructure and players at both places?

* Cincy has not been a difficult place to win in recent years. At Cincy you had Brian Kelly (three 9+ win seasons in three years), Mark Dantonio (two bowls in three years and a move to the Big East), and Rick Minter (four bowls in eight years). The program Jones inherited had been reasonably decent for over a decade.

The reasons to be more optimistic:

* His teams at CMU were actually as good or better than Kelly's. He took that program up a notch from where Kelly had it. Kelly took them to one bowl-- the Motor City Bowl-- and won 9 games in his final year. Jones took them to the Motor City his first two years and won 11 games and took them to the Liberty his final year . . . the first time they won 11+ since 1974. Even if he did that with Kelly's players or system it still takes coaching to kick things up a notch.

* This is two years in a row that he's won COTY in the Big East by at least one media measure.

* His 2011 team was very talented on offense and he lost those players, but in 2012 his defense stepped up to 12th nationally in points allowed to get Cincy to 9 wins again. They could easily have dropped off but didn't.

* He's got a much better track record than Derek fizzleing Dooley had, weak though it may be compared to what we wanted.

In the end, my patience will be short. He will be expected to outdo Dooley in Year 1 by winning at least 7 games and a meaningful SEC game. Anything less and it'll be reasonable to question whether firing Dooley for Jones was the right move. The only thing Dooley did was improve the roster but it should be good enough now to compete in meaningful games and win at least one, even for a new coach with a new system.

But for now, I'm behind Butch and will try not to be negative.

[droner]

But for now, I'm behind Butch and will try not to be negative.

That's my position. The negativity hurts the program.

But the bottom line is: This is where we are. None of us know anything until it happens. So we might as well try to make the best of it. To do otherwise is counterproductive.

[tnflower]

But for now, I'm behind Butch and will try not to be negative.

Well said.

[murfvol]

That's a good synopsis. I'm not ticked at Jones, just with the process that hired him...and gave him an outsized contract instead of a lesser one loaded with incentives. Hopefully he'll do really well.

EDIT: Saying the process stinks is not a personal attack. I love my mother, but want her nowhere near the football program. She'd run it into the ground

[TheRealOrange]

...gave him an outsized contract instead of a lesser one loaded with incentives. Hopefully he'll do really well.

Have the terms of the contract been released?

[murfvol]

Feldman said 6 years/$18 million, but I'm not sure any other sources have confirmed.

[TheRealOrange]

Feldman said 6 years/$18 million, but I'm not sure any other sources have confirmed.

So, I guess it might be possible that some of that $3 million per year could be with incentives (i.e., if all incentives are earned).  Then again, perhaps not.   

[BanditVol]

So, I guess it might be possible that some of that $3 million per year could be with incentives (i.e., if all incentives are earned).  Then again, perhaps not.   

It's probably straight up.  That's about where the market is.  He will be maybe the 5th highest in the SEC, if that.  If the numbers are even right.   

[TheRealOrange]

It's probably straight up.  That's about where the market is.  He will be maybe the 5th highest in the SEC, if that.  If the numbers are even right.   

Well, we should be able to find out after the deal is made public.  I believe even Fulmer's total compensation at the end included incentives, and the max was always stated in those terms.  But, the incentives are usually small in comparison to the overall compensation.  If I remember correctly, the TV/radio, etc. stuff made up the biggest chunk, while the state employee salary part was also small in comparison.

[FranklinVol]

I'm pretty hot right now and so I am gonna say a few things that I am very...VERY afraid that I am NOT going to regret.  Butch Jones is not an SEC level hire and my Vols desreve better.  This entire search process has reeked of fail from the jump.  The national sports media has been laughing at us every step of the way and now they are going to pat us on the head and talk about what a great hire Butch freakin Jones is for our little program and dismiss us.  IMO Hart is incompetent and Cheek has shown all the leadership skills of a heroin addled lemming.  For many years I had in laws who were Ole Miss people.  They rambled on and on every year about how Ole Sis was a traditional SEC elite and popped off about they were gonna win the West.  Every now and then everything would break just right and they would manage a 7-5 or 8-4 season, then back to the cellar they would go.  Welcome to the new normal.  The idea of it being 30 or 40 years from now and having some snot nosed Georgia or (lord help us) Vandy fan looking at me with pitty while I rant about how UT is gonna rise up to regain their glory from 50 years ago....is... upsetting.  m a life long fan and I always will be, but it is going to take a momumental effort by UT and little jonesy before I ever darken the door at Neyland again.  IT was only a few years ago I went to every home game and some away games..then all the home games...then the last couple of years just a few home games a year..now this.  I am not gonna quietly "get behind the new coach" and meekly support whatever failboat that idiot Hart shoves down our throat.  It will take a momumental sea change in product on the field over a prolonged period to get me back to caring.  Until then I'll catch some games on TV maybe...what else happens on Saturdays in this country?  I really have no idea.

[BanditVol]

I agree with just about everything except thinking the process was screwed up.  IMO, the only misstep was the Strong offering and at the end of the day Strong had great reasons for staying in Louisville.

The reason I liked the process is that Hart (a) waited until HE was ready to fire Dooley, and (b) made HIS decision on the coach.  Hamilton did none of these things!  He abandoned Fulmer at the first sign of trouble right after giving him an extension  , then hired a search firm to find....Lane Kiffin.   

Let me put it this way...at least I didn't have to google Butch Jones. I already knew who he was.

So in a nutshell, this is all on Hart.  He definitely was in control and made his own decisions.  It might or might not pay off.  A coaching change is to some extent a crap shoot or card game!  What's the next card rolling out of the deck?  Who knows!   

I don't think he bungled it at all.  If Jones works out how I think he will, I don't think Hart will face pressure, but we will see.  I am guessing just like everyone else.