Dave Clawson is the new coach at Wake Forest......

[droner]

As it turns out, he must be a pretty good coach. He just got to UT at a bad time.

[Creek Walker]

I think he is. I've said it over and over...he got way too much blame for what happened with the offense in '08.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Clawson was a scapegoat.

I'd better shut up now. 

[VinnieVOL]

Clawson was a scapegoat.

I'd better shut up now. 

Cause the last 5 years have really been a breath of fresh air.   

[Volznut]

Clawson was a scapegoat.

I'd better shut up now. 

He was never allowed autonomy to run the offense. You could see it then and you can see it with the offense success he has had at BG.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Cause the last 5 years have really been a breath of fresh air.  

So, what do Dooley and Kiffin's tenures have to do with Dave Clawson? He wasn't here.  

Is it just coincidental that Clawson was successful at Boling Green?  

Clawson couldn't move while he was at UT because Fulmer was sitting on top of him. 

[Volznut]

Clawson couldn't move while he was at UT because Fulmer was sitting on top of him. 

That's a lot of weight sitting on top of you for a year

[VinnieVOL]

So, what do Dooley and Kiffin's tenures have to do with Dave Clawson? He wasn't here.  

Is it just coincidental that Clawson was successful at Boling Green?  

Clawson couldn't move while he was at UT because Fulmer was sitting on top of him.  

I know, so does everyone else, what your stance is on Fulmer.  My point is UT couldn't have been fired soon enough for the anti-Fulmer crowd.  "Kick him to the curb, wee can do better than this!", we were told.  Well?  We're still hoping that 3 years from now we might actually be competitive.  I realize Dooley and Kiffin have nothing to do with Fulmer, and that the real problem is the hires that were made after Fulmer was gone.  But what if Fulmer was given another year, and then fired?  My bet is we wouldn't have ended up with Kiffin and Dooley then.  But those of us on the fence about Fulmer were wary of this.  I knew it wasn't like it was in the 90's anymore, but firing Fulmer did not guarantee things would be better.  Of course, no one could've predicted Kiffin and Dooley.. but in hindsight right now it looks to me like we could've avoided all these losing seasons potentially by handling the Fulmer situation differently.

And yes, I realize we're beating a dead horse here but you started it.   

[Volznut]

I know, so does everyone else, what your stance is on Fulmer.  My point is UT couldn't have been fired soon enough for the anti-Fulmer crowd.  "Kick him to the curb, wee can do better than this!", we were told.  Well?  We're still hoping that 3 years from now we might actually be competitive.  I realize Dooley and Kiffin have nothing to do with Fulmer, and that the real problem is the hires that were made after Fulmer was gone.  But what if Fulmer was given another year, and then fired?  My bet is we wouldn't have ended up with Kiffin and Dooley then.  But those of us on the fence about Fulmer were wary of this.  I knew it wasn't like it was in the 90's anymore, but firing Fulmer did not guarantee things would be better.  Of course, no one could've predicted Kiffin and Dooley.. but in hindsight right now it looks to me like we could've avoided all these losing seasons potentially by handling the Fulmer situation differently.

And yes, I realize we're beating a dead horse here but you started it.   

Fulmer had 2 losing seasons in his last 4 years, and probably not coincidentally, he had Cut those 2 years he won.  He was not recruiting well, and he was making bad hires. I knew we'd start getting worse in the late 2000's when I was looking at the recruiting classes. He was getting lazy and entitled, and needed to go. There are no guarantees in life, you certainly can't predict what would have happened if we kept Fulmer another year and then fired him, it could have been a better hire, but likely Hamilton would have bungled that one as well - he was a terrible AD in hindsight. Who knows? You can't predict what happens had we not fired him at all....based on what happened at Bama, FL, etc it's likely we'd be in similar shape...but that's all speculation.

You can't play that game. The decision to fire Fulmer was just and the right thing to do. The decision to hire Kiffin was bad, and obviously now we can say Dooley was worse because he did not improve the talent. It happens. bama took a while before they hired the right guy as well.

[Hollerboy]

Fulmer had 2 losing seasons in his last 4 years, and probably not coincidentally, he had Cut those 2 years he won.  He was not recruiting well, and he was making bad hires. I knew we'd start getting worse in the late 2000's when I was looking at the recruiting classes. He was getting lazy and entitled, and needed to go. There are no guarantees in life, you certainly can't predict what would have happened if we kept Fulmer another year and then fired him, it could have been a better hire, but likely Hamilton would have bungled that one as well - he was a terrible AD in hindsight. Who knows? You can't predict what happens had we not fired him at all....based on what happened at Bama, FL, etc it's likely we'd be in similar shape...but that's all speculation.

You can't play that game. The decision to fire Fulmer was just and the right thing to do. The decision to hire Kiffin was bad, and obviously now we can say Dooley was worse because he did not improve the talent. It happens. bama took a while before they hired the right guy as well.

Ditto!

[Volznut]

and btw the same thing is happening with Cuonzo. We'll have a good year this year - not as good as we can be, and then start regressing next year. Look at the class coming in. Very little offense.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I know, so does everyone else, what your stance is on Fulmer.  My point is UT couldn't have been fired soon enough for the anti-Fulmer crowd.  "Kick him to the curb, wee can do better than this!", we were told.  Well?  We're still hoping that 3 years from now we might actually be competitive.  I realize Dooley and Kiffin have nothing to do with Fulmer, and that the real problem is the hires that were made after Fulmer was gone.  But what if Fulmer was given another year, and then fired?  My bet is we wouldn't have ended up with Kiffin and Dooley then.  But those of us on the fence about Fulmer were wary of this.  I knew it wasn't like it was in the 90's anymore, but firing Fulmer did not guarantee things would be better.  Of course, no one could've predicted Kiffin and Dooley.. but in hindsight right now it looks to me like we could've avoided all these losing seasons potentially by handling the Fulmer situation differently.

And yes, I realize we're beating a dead horse here but you started it.   

Nope. Firing Fulmer at the time wasn't the wrong thing to do.  Hiring Kiffin and then Dooley were the wrong things to do. 

Fulmer put himself in the situation by being lazy in recruiting and failing to make coaching changes when they needed to be made because he let personal relationships get in the way and refused to do what needed to be done professionally.  Keeping him another year wasn't going to change the direction of the program.  There's just nothing to indicate he would have made necessary changes. 

Clawson was a scapegoat - plainly and simply. 

[Creek Walker]

This conversation gives me a headache. Have you ever noticed that we all say the same things every time it comes up?

And, yet, I read it anyway. 

[Memphisvolunteer]

Our situation is really similar to Bama's situation before.  They suffered through 4 coaches before finally getting it right and had some fairly awful seasons.  Funny how it happens everywhere.

[HerbTarlekVol]

This conversation gives me a headache. Have you ever noticed that we all say the same things every time it comes up?

And, yet, I read it anyway. 

And the Fulmeristas will never admit that Fulmer had gotten lazy and was not the same coach the last 5-6 years of his UT tenure that he was the first 10. 

[VinnieVOL]

And the Fulmeristas will never admit that Fulmer had gotten lazy and was not the same coach the last 5-6 years of his UT tenure that he was the first 10. 

I don't hesitate to admit that, he wasn't the same.  I just wonder in hindsight what would've been if we would've waited a year.  But I know, I know.. hindsight's 20/20.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Hey, this thread sounds interesting.  What are you guys talking about in here?

Oh.  Nevermind.

[EmerilVOL]

Hey, this thread sounds interesting.  What are you guys talking about in here?

Oh.  Nevermind.

SSDD

[BanditVol]

What was Clawson supposed to do in one year with a whole new system?  Plus he had that silly o line rotation thing going...which we were supposed to accept because...get this....high school teams do it! Seriously that was an argument offered to defend Clawson.

He was a good coach stuck in a bad position.

We should have waited to fire Fulmer petiod.  The FSU model is much better thsn the michigsn UT model . Just look at the results.

[HerbTarlekVol]

What was Clawson supposed to do in one year with a whole new system?  Plus he had that silly o line rotation thing going...which we were supposed to accept because...get this....high school teams do it! Seriously that was an argument offered to defend Clawson.

Yeah, it was such a silly thing that Phillip Fulmer his frickin' self did the same damned thing part of the time he was the offensive line coach and OC at UT. 

Believe it or not, a lot of college teams, and even some NFL teams flip their offensive linemen in some situations.  It's not that unusual, and it's really not that hard to comprehend. 

[Volznut]

What was Clawson supposed to do in one year with a whole new system?  Plus he had that silly o line rotation thing going...which we were supposed to accept because...get this....high school teams do it! Seriously that was an argument offered to defend Clawson.

He was a good coach stuck in a bad position.

We should have waited to fire Fulmer petiod.  The FSU model is much better thsn the michigsn UT model . Just look at the results.

FSU is in FL. A little easier to rebuild there.

[BanditVol]

Believe it or not, a lot of college teams, and even some NFL teams flip their offensive linemen in some situations.  It's not that unusual, and it's really not that hard to comprehend. 

Not on every single play....

[HerbTarlekVol]

Not on every single play....

And Clawson's offense didn't do it on every single play, either.

That whole argument was so discombobulated it was pathetic.  99.9% of those blaming Clawson and his offensive line philosophy had no clue of what the OL was actually doing.  It wasn't rocket science. 

[BanditVol]

And Clawson's offense didn't do it on every single play, either.

That whole argument was so discombobulated it was pathetic.  99.9% of those blaming Clawson and his offensive line philosophy had no clue of what the OL was actually doing.  It wasn't rocket science. 

Nonsense.  They often looked confused.

[Tnphil]

And Clawson's offense didn't do it on every single play, either.

That whole argument was so discombobulated it was pathetic.  99.9% of those blaming Clawson and his offensive line philosophy had no clue of what the OL was actually doing.  It wasn't rocket science. 

We flipped OL some this year under Butch...Not unusual to do it.