One game is enough to determine Butch Jones' abilities?

[Creek Walker]

I have to say that this fan base makes me sick to my stomach sometimes. There's nothing wrong with criticizing coaching. I've been as critical of Bajakian's play calling as anyone. I've had a problem with our OL coaching since last season. And I even said on twitter, much to the disagreement of some, that our team was out-coached yesterday.

But suddenly Butch Jones is "stubborn," "stupid," "in over his head," etc. (all things I've seen said, including one or two on this forum). And after one game.

Yesterday was a devastating loss by just about any measure. But to see a not-insignificant portion of this fan base start saying that this coach isn't going to get it done when we're five games into his second season makes me SMH...though I know I shouldn't be a bit surprised.

[RockinGrannyVol]

Unfortunately, that always happens.    I just ignore it...otherwise I can let it up set me and it ain't worth getting upset over. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I'm not ready to can Butch, but he and his staff have been here long enough for anybody paying attention to be able to start to see patterns and which units are performing well and making progress.  

Bottom line:  Butch sits in the big office, he is paid over $3 million per year to get it done, and the buck stops with him.  Praise when warranted and criticism when warranted come with that position.

[Black Diamond Vol]

I said last week that if Butch Jones is a championship-caliber coach, he wins this game.  That's still how I feel.  That's not to say I don't think he can stay here for many years and accomplish great things.  He might even win an SECC a time or two.  But he's not going to go on a Saban-like run.  Basically, he's Johnny Majors, IMO.  He'll take us to the brink of greatness, but never quite get us over the top.  I hope he proves me wrong (in a good way).

As long as Butch continues to recruit like this, and as long as the team continues to show improvement on the field, his job is safe.  Even if the team nosedives and finishes this season with 7-8 losses, I still think he gets next year and the year after before we even think about making a change.  We've all been pointing to 2016 as the year we return to the national conversation, so I think he deserves that long to prove himself.

[PirateVOL]

I look at the improvements (both season to season and game by game), the fight in the team and other intangibles and note we are improved and are continuing to improve.  We are a QB and an OL from being competitive in the SEC.

That being said, I think Worley gives us our best shot at winning.  IMO he took a step back yesterday but he still is the best (I think if he goes down Dobbs ends up the starter the next week).

Worley has to improve blitz recognition.  The lack of blitz recognician hurt us deeply the last two games.  Perhaps a slight change is play scheming is called for to help but in the end, not seeing a bliz in your face (for example) is not the fault of the coaching staff.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I look at the improvements (both season to season and game by game), the fight in the team and other intangibles and note we are improved and are continuing to improve.  We are a QB and an OL from being competitive in the SEC.

That being said, I think Worley gives us our best shot at winning.  IMO he took a step back yesterday but he still is the best (I think if he goes down Dobbs ends up the starter the next week).

Worley has to improve blitz recognition.  The lack of blitz recognician hurt us deeply the last two games.  Perhaps a slight change is play scheming is called for to help but in the end, not seeing a bliz in your face (for example) is not the fault of the coaching staff.

Don't disagree with you, my friend.  Which is exactly why I have been saying all along that our QB of next year is not on campus at this point.  If Dobbs were that answer they wouldn't be trying to redshirt him.  He would be playing.

[Hollerboy]

I agree completely Creek...I think this staff deserves praise for coaching a young inexperienced team to play over their heads. The difference between this staff and the past is like night and day. They play hard, are improving, recruiting is fantastic, former players are all-in...everything about this staff is positive. Can the OC prevent young inexperienced olinemen from missing blocks? Can they make catches? Can they call every play to provide max protection for the qb? No no no. They are doing awesome and I have hope for the first time in a decade.  The fans wanted to beat uf so bad, that they bought into the idea that we should beat them.I didn't...but we made it a game...didn't quit. My buddies were bitching about too many first down runs, then when we get in the red zone and worley throws the into...they bitched cause we didn't run it. Can't win. I am happy with our staff and program...good times are ahead!

[Hollerboy]

I said last week that if Butch Jones is a championship-caliber coach, he wins this game.  That's still how I feel.  That's not to say I don't think he can stay here for many years and accomplish great things.  He might even win an SECC a time or two.  But he's not going to go on a Saban-like run.  Basically, he's Johnny Majors, IMO.  He'll take us to the brink of greatness, but never quite get us over the top.  I hope he proves me wrong (in a good way).

As long as Butch continues to recruit like this, and as long as the team continues to show improvement on the field, his job is safe.  Even if the team nosedives and finishes this season with 7-8 losses, I still think he gets next year and the year after before we even think about making a change.  We've all been pointing to 2016 as the year we return to the national conversation, so I think he deserves that long to prove himself.

Wonder what sabans record was his first two years at bammar?

[generic name here]

This fanbase makes me sick to my stomach, too. It's beyond frustrating to see fans be so blindly loyal to a coach that they confuse criticism for condemnation. These things are not the same. I'm appalled at the way some fans want to lash out at others over not being loyal enough. This fanbase has done everything Jones has asked of them. We filled Neyland on opening night and we filled it again yesterday, evening creating the unique checkerboard pattern for a little added flavor. The fans get loud and embrace the third down thing he wants to do, as well as all of the other catchphrase stuff he's come up with. The fans have been bringing it for him. If these same fans want to criticize the offense to this point, then we have every right to do that. The offensive scheme is not producing currently, and it will not produce until changes are made. Jones needs a new OC or his current one needs to make some adjustments. I don't care which, but one of those things has to happen or we will be looking for a new head coach again in a couple of years. Watch the offense closely the rest of the year, as I'm sure everyone will be doing anyway. If things change and they start having success, it will be a direct result of the coaches changing things schematically to help cover the weaknesses. Getting the injured receivers back will help also, but only marginally. The real success, if it comes, will come from the adjustments the offensive coaching staff (hopefully) makes.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Wonder what sabans record was his first two years at bammar?

IIRC, they went to the SECCG in year two. 

[LouisVOL]

Coaches change from geniuses to idiots on a week to week basis, sometimes more frequently, as often as play to play.  Fans, however, are extremely consistent. 

[generic name here]

Wonder what sabans record was his first two years at bammar?

Here's one for you. The year before Hugh Freeze went to Ole Miss, they were 2-10. He proceeded to take that team to a bowl game. The next season, he went to another bowl game. Now he has his team poised to make a serious run at a SECC. Jones took over a 5-7 team and repeated that mark, missing a bowl game. He is 2-3 this season and the prospects of a bowl game this year are dwindling. This is where the comparison should be made between Jones and another SEC program. Kentucky is another good example. Stoops and Jones are both in their second year. They both had identical records are their predecessors in the first year, and now Kentucky is 4-1 and really improving as the season goes, while Tennessee is 2-3 and treading water yet again. Do these facts mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. The point is this, Tennessee is not getting it done right now, and I will be critical of the offensive coaches right now, because they are not getting the job done while other coaches in this same league did not have these problems in similar situations. If things improve, and the offense starts producing and holding up their end, then the criticism will stop. Until then, there is work to be done, and I wait patiently, but not silently, for it to be accomplished.

[Tnphil]

If we finish 5-7 again this year which is looking likely......Dooley will have a better record after 2 years than Butch will have. Noodle that.


And for the life of me I can't get out of my head.....Dooley beat Butch.

[HerbTarlekVol]

IIRC, they went to the SECCG in year two. 

Yep, finished the regular season 12-0 before losing in the SECCG and in the Sugar Bowl to Utah to finish 12-2.

And we all know that they won the national championship in his third year. 

While all of us UT fans pretty much despise the munchkin, we would all love to have the success he had in those first few years. 

And honestly, for anybody to compare Saban and Jones at this point just really doesn't have much of a clue. 

[Creek Walker]

I said last week that if Butch Jones is a championship-caliber coach, he wins this game.  That's still how I feel.  That's not to say I don't think he can stay here for many years and accomplish great things.  He might even win an SECC a time or two.  But he's not going to go on a Saban-like run.  Basically, he's Johnny Majors, IMO.  He'll take us to the brink of greatness, but never quite get us over the top.  I hope he proves me wrong (in a good way).

I just think that's a completely unfair assessment. Was yesterday's loss a red flag? Absolutely. But to look at one game and determine from that game that a coach can't win championships...I just don't know how you reasonably draw a conclusion like that. If what happened yesterday becomes a pattern, I'll be the first in line to agree with you. But, correct me if I'm wrong: With the possible exception of Vanderbilt last year, yesterday was the first time Jones' UT team faced a team they should have beaten and lost. Even championship coaches lose games they aren't supposed to from time to time. Look no further than the coach whose name has already been mentioned on this thread. Wonder how many Alabama fans thought Nick Saban would never be a championship-caliber coach after he lost to Louisiana Monroe in 2007?

[generic name here]

I just think that's a completely unfair assessment. Was yesterday's loss a red flag? Absolutely. But to look at one game and determine from that game that a coach can't win championships...I just don't know how you reasonably draw a conclusion like that. If what happened yesterday becomes a pattern, I'll be the first in line to agree with you. But, correct me if I'm wrong: With the possible exception of Vanderbilt last year, yesterday was the first time Jones' UT team faced a team they should have beaten and lost. Even championship coaches lose games they aren't supposed to from time to time. Look no further than the coach whose name has already been mentioned on this thread. Wonder how many Alabama fans thought Nick Saban would never be a championship-caliber coach after he lost to Louisiana Monroe in 2007?

I don't know why you insist on saying these opinions are about one game. They are not. You can accept that or not, but no matter how much you keep saying it's about one game, that will just not be the reality.

[Creek Walker]

I don't know why you insist on saying these opinions are about one game. They are not. You can accept that or not, but no matter how much you keep saying it's about one game, that will just not be the reality.

I was not talking to you. Please look at the comment I was responding to and then re-read my comment for context. Thanks.

(However, since you do take issue with the "one game" statement: it's interesting that you didn't show up to complain until after the loss yesterday.)

[Creek Walker]

It may make me a bit of a hypocrite because I think we need a new OL coach, but here's my problem with castrating Butch for being too loyal to his coaches: Last year, I and many (most?) other UT fans thought that John Jancek couldn't cut it as an SEC defensive coordinator. Half a season later, this UT defense as at least a mid-tier SEC defense. A defense that was completely maligned last year is in the top half of defenses in the best conference in college football. So while I've been vocal about Bajakian's play calling myself, I think we should at least wait until the end of the season and see where things stand.

[Black Diamond Vol]

I just think that's a completely unfair assessment. Was yesterday's loss a red flag? Absolutely. But to look at one game and determine from that game that a coach can't win championships...I just don't know how you reasonably draw a conclusion like that. If what happened yesterday becomes a pattern, I'll be the first in line to agree with you. But, correct me if I'm wrong: With the possible exception of Vanderbilt last year, yesterday was the first time Jones' UT team faced a team they should have beaten and lost. Even championship coaches lose games they aren't supposed to from time to time. Look no further than the coach whose name has already been mentioned on this thread. Wonder how many Alabama fans thought Nick Saban would never be a championship-caliber coach after he lost to Louisiana Monroe in 2007?

Just so I'm clear, I'm still very much pro-Butch.  I just think that a great coach would've found a way to overcome the talent deficit and beat THIS Florida team, with THIS coach, in Knoxville.  So Butch is no Neyland.  He's no Saban.  Few are.  I still think he can accomplish more at UT than 99% of the guys who have ever coached CFB. 

If I told you that Butch could duplicate Johnny Majors' run from 85-91, I think most here would take that right now and run with it.  That's 3 SEC titles won or shared in 7 years, with two Sugar Bowl champions.  Well, I think we're on the verge of something very similar, possibly beginning as soon as next year.  But eventually, this fanbase is going to demand more, because they always do.  Will we get more under Butch?  After yesterday, I don't think so.  And that's OK.  If Butch can just  get us back to where we're annually competitive in the SEC, and in the hunt for a NC every four years or so, he will have done a great job.

[generic name here]

It may make me a bit of a hypocrite because I think we need a new OL coach, but here's my problem with castrating Butch for being too loyal to his coaches: Last year, I and many (most?) other UT fans thought that John Jancek couldn't cut it as an SEC defensive coordinator. Half a season later, this UT defense as at least a mid-tier SEC defense. A defense that was completely maligned last year is in the top half of defenses in the best conference in college football. So while I've been vocal about Bajakian's play calling myself, I think we should at least wait until the end of the season and see where things stand.

I'm not trying to advocate for the offensive coordinator to be fired at this time. I am saying that he has underperformed since he got here, and his problems are a lot about the scheme and design of plays. Some of it is due to personnel, and that's a factor I consider when watching the offense. That's not the whole problem, though, and it's not close to the biggest problem. I've seen Bajakian try to block Clowney with a tight end. I've seen him try to block defensive ends one on one with freshmen/inexperienced tackles. I've seen him go completely away from plays that were working and start trying other stuff just to stay multiple. Multiple is great and everything, but it's insanity to change the playcalling that is working just for the sake of changing it. We could talk all day about the slow developing running plays and zone read stuff that is just not working. We could talk about his apparent lack of rhythm on drives. Too many times I have seen a drive stall because of a bad play call that put the team behind the sticks. This goes back to that changing playcalling just to change it thing I referenced earlier. These are all reasons why Bajakian is failing at his job. If it continues and he doesn't learn how to make adjustments that progress the offense forward, then I will suggest his firing. As of right now, I have no problem with Jones sticking with his staff. At this point, nothing indicates to me that a change needs to be made. However, if the season continues to go the way it appears it will go, then Bajakian and Mahoney can find the first ride out of town because a lot of the failings will be on them. If Jones refuses to accept this potential outcome, then he will find himself looking for new employment in a couple of years. My personal opinion is that Bajakian is terrible and cannot improve. Therefore, I believe his firing will be warranted. There is time for that outcome to be avoided, but nothing I've seen to this point in his career at Tennessee indicates to me that he will show the needed improvement.

[PirateVOL]

It may make me a bit of a hypocrite because I think we need a new OL coach, but here's my problem with castrating Butch for being too loyal to his coaches: Last year, I and many (most?) other UT fans thought that John Jancek couldn't cut it as an SEC defensive coordinator. Half a season later, this UT defense as at least a mid-tier SEC defense. A defense that was completely maligned last year is in the top half of defenses in the best conference in college football. So while I've been vocal about Bajakian's play calling myself, I think we should at least wait until the end of the season and see where things stand.

I don't disagree with the issues with the OL coaching.  I do call your attention (see depth chart post) that the previous coach helped put us in the position we are today, starting two true freshman on the right side. 

I have not looked at the film (I know, a Fulmerite  ) since I just got back but I do know that Thomas improved greatly from the OU game to the UGA game.  It did seem to me watching the game live was that at least 3-4 of the sacks were more on Worley than the line.  I would also note that after a slow start we did start t get a bit of a push in the run game, as we did against UGA.

Our biggest problem yesterday was that due to play calling and/or execution we stayed behind the chains most of the day yesterday.  That exacerbates any QB/OL line issues we have.

While I am pointing out issues, without Josh Smith on the field the ONLY receiver who gets open fairly consistently is Pig.  Malone is probably next but he had two big drops yesterday.  North is a great athlete but he has problems gaining separation (though on the 1st down completion to the East boundary to Johnson yesterday North was wide open in the middle of the field with, at most, one defender to beat for a TD if the pass had gone his way).  Having Pearson back and possibly Smith for Ole Miss will be huge.

[Creek Walker]

While I am pointing out issues, without Josh Smith on the field the ONLY receiver who gets open fairly consistently is Pig.  Malone is probably next but he had two big drops yesterday.  North is a great athlete but he has problems gaining separation (though on the 1st down completion to the East boundary to Johnson yesterday North was wide open in the middle of the field with, at most, one defender to beat for a TD if the pass had gone his way).  Having Pearson back and possibly Smith for Ole Miss will be huge.

That's one of the reasons I'm a little hesitant to criticize Worley as much as I'd like now. I tend to agree that some of the sacks are on Worley rather than the OL — in the SEC, you just don't have time to sit back there. Indecisiveness will get you in trouble every time. But I think even those can be laid at the feet of the receivers a bit. North has been a huge disappointment thus far. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Pearson gets back to full strength and our opponents can't bracket him as much.

There's still no doubt that Worley had a terrible game. The decision to throw off his back foot and the fumble were killers. Coming into this week's game, I was convinced that -- win or lose -- the second half of the season would be fun to watch because of the improvements of the D and Worley. Certainly better than last year, when every team of consequence was blowing us out. I felt like we could be competitive with any team left on the schedule. After yesterday, I'm not convinced we can score a touchdown against any SEC team sans Vandy that remains on the schedule. But it'll be interesting to see how the O improves as some of the injured receivers return to full strength.

[TheRealOrange]

I have had the opportunity to talk to a few former players, some with significant NFL experience, and they all seem to think Jones is the right guy for the job.  There seems to be more concern about losing him to another school, assuming the right job opens, than him ultimately winning.  Time will tell.

[Tnphil]

At this point he has 2 less wins than Dooley did. What school is going to hire him....and based on what?

[VinnieVOL]

I'm not ready to say anyone should be fired.  But I was all in Saturday, and I'm sure you all were, too.  I'm really angry about the offensive coaching and execution on Saturday.

Now I'm firmly back in "show me" mode.   All of Butch's coach speak and sayings like "it's a process " are going to get old fast if he doesn't start showing he's capable of getting it done on gameday.