One game is enough to determine Butch Jones' abilities?

[Creek Walker]

Now I'm firmly back in "show me" mode.   All of Butch's coach speak and sayings like "it's a process " are going to get old fast if he doesn't start showing he's capable of getting it done on gameday.

I'm right there with you on that. I told my wife Saturday as we were leaving that I won't be back to a game until they show me they can win. I may go back to a Kentucky or a game where I don't have to pay a lot of money and can just go enjoy the game, but I'm not going to spend another entire Saturday paying hundreds of dollars and getting all wrapped up in a game just to see another debacle like what we saw Saturday.

By the same token, as much as I gritted my teeth when I listened to Butch's interview with Bob Kesling on the way home Saturday and heard his "its a process" remark, I have to let realism sink in and realize that it IS a process. It's about changing a mindset. This program was so beat down during the Dooley years, no wonder they haven't learned to win yet. It's easy to say that all these guys on the field now are freshmen and sophomores and they don't remember the Dooley era, they don't know they aren't supposed to beat teams like Florida, but when it seeps from every orifice of the UTAD, it's a culture that has to be changed. I think it's changing. Last year we couldn't stay on the field with most teams. This year there's at least a competitive fire there. I may change my tune if Ole Miss and Alabama boatrace us, but for now I'm hanging my hat on the accomplishments of Butch Jones and his staff, and there's been a lot more accomplishments than failures to this point.

At the end of the day, no matter how much a loss like Saturday's sucks, I don't think it does the fan base any good to get bent out of shape and irrational. Look no further than this thread, where someone has made multiple comparisons of Butch Jones to Derek Dooley. I mean, seriously? What planet do you have to be on to reasonably conclude that Dooley did as much as UT in his first 1.5 years as Jones has done?

[VinnieVOL]

I know, and I agree it appears there is progress in some areas.

But last week I went on a rant about folks saying things like "Tennessee just pulled a 'Tennessee'" and I said no, that was wrong it IS different now.  But today I don't know.    So far it's no different where it matters most, in wins and losses.  I think it's really just wishful thinking on our part.  Many say "Butch will bring us back" but we don't know that.  Maybe he doesn't.  He's better than Dooley in recruiting and in overall attitude and work ethic, but what if that's it?  I'm just not convinced now.  Maybe he's just a guy who says the right things and his players love him.  It's great that we give great effort and we don't quit, but it doesn't mean squat if we keep losing.

Saturday was just a disaster and I'm still furious.  Despite all our deficiencies, that was a Florida team we should've beat.  It's just that simple.

[BanditVol]

I felt like we should have beaten Florida, and I was on record as saying it would be nice if it was a blowout.  I did NOT expect a blowout though, I expected a close, hard fought game, and that's exactly what it was.  Forget the details, I thought one team or another would win by a close margin and that's what happened.  Take away the late fumble by Justin and I think we win, and we were still firing at the end of the game. 

It's very frustrating given the history with Florida, but I think that this Florida team, in spite of the blowout loss at bammer, is likely a bowl team.  I could see them beating LSU, So Cal Jr, Vandy, E Kentucky, Mizzou, and perhaps even uga if Driskel stays on the bench.  That would give them 8-9 wins and a decent bowl slot. 

That doesn't excuse our loss....it would simply have made a win that much sweeter.   But this was only our second SEC game, so plenty of time to make this season a success.

[Memphisvolunteer]

Wow, this thread has a little bit of everything in it...from people comparing head coaches to people wanting coaches fired after one game!  I think the answer lies  in the middle somewhere.

First of all, I was so mad leaving the stadium.  To lose to that UF team makes me sick.  However, everyone said going into the season that we would be a 5-7, 6-6, 7-5 team and that 7 -5 would be the best we could do.  That is still a possibility.  Also, people said that we would win some we shouldn't and lose some we shouldn't because of the team's youth.  They will make mistakes.  I am not ready to call for coach's heads or say we suck and can't score another offensive TD against anyone else besides Vandy.  I think some things need to be adjusted.  I think we have to start using TE's to help block.  We also have to go to more slants and short developing routes instead of the 7 step drops and slow developing plays downfield.  

I still don't understand the play calling inside the 20 saturday.  I can understand not running because we weren't gaining yards.  But on the Worley interception (which was off his back foot AND north fell down), you fake the jet sweep, roll worley to his right and throws to the center of the field in the end zone.  Why do you not take a 3 step drop and throw several fades to the corner of the end zone and let your 6'4 receivers go up and get the ball.  It is either a TD or an incomplete pass and you save several hits on your QB.  The coaches have to adjust the sheme for the lack of an o-line.  Also, the behind the line of scrimmage throws need to stop.

However, the people that are saying we won't score another TD except against Vandy just don't realize how bad the East is.  South Carolina is just plain BAD.  Up 14 with 13 mins to play and Spurrier refuses to run the ball.  Also, I am not sold on UK just yet.  They have improved but they also haven't played anyone.  Missouri couldn't score against that BAD south carolin D so I don't know about Missouri yet either.

[BanditVol]

Wow, this thread has a little bit of everything in it...from people comparing head coaches to people wanting coaches fired after one game!  I think the answer lies  in the middle somewhere.

First of all, I was so mad leaving the stadium.  To lose to that UF team makes me sick.  However, everyone said going into the season that we would be a 5-7, 6-6, 7-5 team and that 7 -5 would be the best we could do.  That is still a possibility.  Also, people said that we would win some we shouldn't and lose some we shouldn't because of the team's youth.  They will make mistakes.  I am not ready to call for coach's heads or say we suck and can't score another offensive TD against anyone else besides Vandy.  I think some things need to be adjusted.  I think we have to start using TE's to help block.  We also have to go to more slants and short developing routes instead of the 7 step drops and slow developing plays downfield.  

I still don't understand the play calling inside the 20 saturday.  I can understand not running because we weren't gaining yards.  But on the Worley interception (which was off his back foot AND north fell down), you fake the jet sweep, roll worley to his right and throws to the center of the field in the end zone.  Why do you not take a 3 step drop and throw several fades to the corner of the end zone and let your 6'4 receivers go up and get the ball.  It is either a TD or an incomplete pass and you save several hits on your QB.  The coaches have to adjust the sheme for the lack of an o-line.  Also, the behind the line of scrimmage throws need to stop.

However, the people that are saying we won't score another TD except against Vandy just don't realize how bad the East is.  South Carolina is just plain BAD.  Up 14 with 13 mins to play and Spurrier refuses to run the ball.  Also, I am not sold on UK just yet.  They have improved but they also haven't played anyone.  Missouri couldn't score against that BAD south carolin D so I don't know about Missouri yet either.

I agree with almost everything you say.  Playcalling was bad at times, but the biggest factor was the O Line, IMO.

I agree about the fades, but at the same time Worley doesn't seem good at those.  The int to Croom against OU, for example.  SOmething to work on, perhaps.

COMPLETELY agree about needing more slants and quick routes (button hook, anyone?)  If it takes that long for the play to develop, give the man some quicker routes.  At the same time, Florida was playing up tight all day, so maybe it just wasn't there...but would have liked to see us run a lot more shorter routes than we did.

[TheRealOrange]

At this point he has 2 less wins than Dooley did. What school is going to hire him....and based on what?

Based on his coaching history (not just 1+ seasons during a total ground-up rebuilding project), the fact that he was left with zero talent at UT, has only one full year of his own recruits (2013 was mop-up recruiting from the Dooley era), and has been recruiting lights out ever since he got here.  There are likely a few Big 10 schools that would take him in a heartbeat.  I said before the season that 5-7 was the most likely result this season, and it probably still is.  Why should I abandon ship or question his coaching ability when I actually think he has done more with less than I thought he would.  I figured the Vols would get blown out by GA and beaten by FL.  Should they have won on Saturday?  Now I think so.  And despite my aggravation with some of the play calling, he sure didn't throw the stupid picks or fumble the ball to set up FL's winning score.  Most here pointed to 2016 as the year the Vols better be able to contend, with expectations of 8 or 9 wins in 2015.  It's only the progress made to date, and the raised expectations of the fans based on the clear improvement from the last coaching staff, that are causing the negative comments right now.  But, that's just my opinion.  You obviously don't share it.  So be it.  There is no doubt though that a lot of former players are behind the guy, see the progress, and expect big things.  I'll take that over fan rants any day.   

[Tnphil]

Based on his coaching history (not just 1+ seasons during a total ground-up rebuilding project), the fact that he was left with zero talent at UT, has only one full year of his own recruits (2013 was mop-up recruiting from the Dooley era), and has been recruiting lights out ever since he got here.  There are likely a few Big 10 schools that would take him in a heartbeat.  I said before the season that 5-7 was the most likely result this season, and it probably still is.  Why should I abandon ship or question his coaching ability when I actually think he has done more with less than I thought he would.  I figured the Vols would get blown out by GA and beaten by FL.  Should they have won on Saturday?  Now I think so.  And despite my aggravation with some of the play calling, he sure didn't throw the stupid picks or fumble the ball to set up FL's winning score.  Most here pointed to 2016 as the year the Vols better be able to contend, with expectations of 8 or 9 wins in 2015.  It's only the progress made to date, and the raised expectations of the fans based on the clear improvement from the last coaching staff, that are causing the negative comments right now.  But, that's just my opinion.  You obviously don't share it.  So be it.  There is no doubt though that a lot of former players are behind the guy, see the progress, and expect big things.  I'll take that over fan rants any day.   

I also know former UT players and coached some of them in High School......The ones I talked to didn't like what they saw Sat. up 9 in the 4th quarter just like I didn't.

Hope this staff makes it....but have serious doubts that this MAC offensive staff will ever be anymore than a 8-9 win staff in the SEC.

[BanditVol]

There is no doubt though that a lot of former players are behind the guy, see the progress, and expect big things.  I'll take that over fan rants any day.   

There is also no doubt that not too many...if ANY...former players were behind Dooley.  No matter what anyone thinks about Butch Jones, the difference between him and Dools is infinity squared.

I am going to use a WW II analogy...the marines have just gotten chewed up at Guadalcanal, which is going far more slowly than anyone thought it would, and the armchair generals are wondering how FDR will ever kill Hitler with his bare hands.

Whereas, it might make more sense to focus on the naval battles around Guadalcanal, the logistics of supply, and getting some re-enforcements in.   

[Creek Walker]

There is also no doubt that not too many...if ANY...former players were behind Dooley.  No matter what anyone thinks about Butch Jones, the difference between him and Dools is infinity squared.

I am going to use a WW II analogy...the marines have just gotten chewed up at Guadalcanal, which is going far more slowly than anyone thought it would, and the armchair generals are wondering how FDR will ever kill Hitler with his bare hands.

Whereas, it might make more sense to focus on the naval battles around Guadalcanal, the logistics of supply, and getting some re-enforcements in.   

Careful. The WWII analogy gives you more in common with Derek Dooley than Butch Jones has in common with Dooley. Dooley was the master of WWII history. 

[PirateVOL]

Careful. The WWII analogy gives you more in common with Derek Dooley than Butch Jones has in common with Dooley. Dooley was the master of WWII history. 

Got the binoculars out looking for those WWII history references ...

[administrator]

I also know former UT players and coached some of them in High School......The ones I talked to didn't like what they saw Sat. up 9 in the 4th quarter just like I didn't.

Hope this staff makes it....but have serious doubts that this MAC offensive staff will ever be anymore than a 8-9 win staff in the SEC.

I know of no one who liked what they saw in the 4th quarter.  How in the heck that one quarter with the personnel on this team causes serious doubts about the offensive staff, I just can't understand.  Maybe there is a rationale for it, but I can't see it.  Now, Coach Jones and the staff may very well be over their heads, but that remains to be seen IMO.

[BanditVol]

Careful. The WWII analogy gives you more in common with Derek Dooley than Butch Jones has in common with Dooley. Dooley was the master of WWII history. 

LOL!

Well...for the record, I didn't like his comparison, and was widely misunderstood as to why.  It was not for PC reasons...I loathe PC.  My problem is that in his analogy, he compared THE VOLS to the Nazis and Florida and Bammer to the Allies!  UNTHINKABLE!!!!

Note that in my analogy, the Vols are the Americans, as they should be.