Enough said. #ArguingForTheSakeOfArguing

Well it's not all arguing for the sake of arguing. I do think you're wrong. But, this place needs some excitement. ;)

I'm sorry. Maybe it's my reading comprehension skills that need work. Because I sure as hell missed the insightfulness you brought to the table. I'll go reread.

I was calling your post insightful other than throwing that odd connection in there.

Check your blood pressure bud. You seem upset.

Wait. Did you say Penn State wasn't winning? From 1993 (when the Sandusky indictments kicked in) until 2010, PSU won 71% of their games, with 7 seasons of 10+ wins, 7 more seasons where they missed 10 wins by just one game, and 10 bowl wins. How many teams had more wins during the same span? Not many.

And I suppose next you'll say that the Winston cover-up at FSU had nothing to do with winning?

See you keep making good points and clouding it with dumb things. There is a reason why I didn't take issue with what you said about Winston.

Ok so Penn state was winning more than I gave them credit for. I still disagree with you. That wasn't about players. Not the same thing. Again a cult of personality who believed he was above reporting something. Completely different and for you to connect these two examples is ludicrous.

I know you're smart enough to have better reading comprehension than that. I said they're both symptoms of the same win-at-all-costs mentality. I mean, lung cancer and bad breath are both symptoms of smoking, but I doubt anyone would call that a comparison.

Laugh at that if you want, but your insulting tone is only because you can't debate the fact.

Oh I can debate the whole post but you're dead wrong about those two things being symptoms of the same thing. Penn state wasnt even winning, they were worshipping a dried up cult of personality. If you want to feel insulted, be my guest. It's an outrageous comparison that ruined an otherwise insightful post.

I don't know Joc, but the fact he took a blue shirt was huge. If the coaching staff doesn't do everything they can for him (don't know they haven't) , they're lousy human beings.

That's what I care about. Treat him like you would a 4* legacy. I have no respect for those who play favorites. Again, I don't know what happened, but hopefully no 45 year-old adult made an 18 year-old kid's life difficult. Us old guys are supposed to serve.

This is extremely naive. And also, if the kid wants to play, releasing him from a place where he won't to go to a place where he will helps the kid accomplish that dream. It's not like Butch is keeping him from college or from playing.

I'm convinced most Tennessee fans would love to take 22 Knoxville kids every year. It's a good thing we have coaches who understand what has to happen.

Where does it stop, though? College sports are generally being destroyed from the inside out -- very little at a time -- by money and winning percentages. And it isn't just issues like these. Saban might've advanced us down the slippery slope but he didn't start the ball rolling. Everyone in the world was outraged when the Sandusky scandal emerged at Penn State, but we all know that today's Penn State could very easily be tomorrow's Notre Dame or LSU. Florida fans feigned disgust when Winston slid at FSU, but they know that their school could just as easily wind up in those same shoes -- heck, it already had; it's just that Hernandez's charges were less serious than rape. When you boil right down to it, the driving factors behind the Sandusky and Winston cover-ups are the same as the factors behind "encouraging" a kid to leave after he committed to you and even agreed to blueshirt.

Did you just compare the Sandusky cover up to a coach parting ways with a kid who can't play at the sec level?

I mean... Lol

I can't even jokingly argue with a person who draws that comparison

They are gorgeous.....as I knew already!   So grown up!  It's amazing to me how fast time flies by!     Got your gun ready?  Won't be long before the boys come calling -- if they haven't already!  :)  :)  :)

Oh yeah. They are buzzing around.

Nope, read it really closely.  Just didn't pass the smell test.  

In any event, the reason for the departure was more than just being late for a few classes, so it is irrelevant at this point.

Yeah it was about being late for a few classes AND him not being a high major player. Not sure why you're having trouble following that.

Looks like butch has gitshirted Kyle Oliver today too. Already making room for the 2016 class. I like it!

Thanks. She just turned 15. Belle is 12 next Wednesday

OK, if you say so, but I don't see an answer to my question anywhere.  With or without Joc there would have been an opportunity to bring the kid from Wisconsin in.  The Wisconsin reject has nothing to do with Joc's situation.

Maybe read a little closer? 😉

Hi granny!

Oldest



A more informal pic of both

Again - using reason and common sense, which you have plenty of - why would Butch bring Joc in, and then get rid of him over such an alleged minor thing?  And especially when you consider that his high school coach is a prominent and influential long time high school coach and administrator AND has been one of Butch's biggest supporters during Butch's career thus far at UT? 

It just doesn't make sense that Butch would run Joc off over something as relatively insignificant and fixable as being late to class. 

I answered that already.

I have scratched my itch to argue for today. I'll be back for more soon. 

Not my intention.  The point is that in most situations there is a Paul Harvey involved, and this one is no different. 

Question: Why would Butch go ahead and bring Joc in during the summer if he didn't think he was going to be able to help the team?  Even as a blue shirt he has to count towards a scholly for next year, and now his leaving will affect the APR.  Why bring him in during summer instead of waiting until fall or encouraging a grayshirt if he thought he was going to be a "candidate" to be run off?

That just doesn't make sense. 

Easy answer... because there wasn't a coveted running back prospect out there that he really thought he could get. APR isn't a concern because they are managing it on the whole.

And sometimes all information isn't "public" to be spread on social media. 

And we all know that Twitter and other social media is always accurate, don't we? 

You're a nice guy, Bill, but if you know something and don't want to post what you know, you shouldn't participate in these threads and drop hints.

It is virtually impossible for UT to keep things quiet, so eventually all information is spread on social media. Nobody is saying social media is always accurate. However it's extremely easy and very common sensical to see through what is true and what isn't when it comes to social media. I guarantee you if there was more to this than something really minor, it would be out there... maybe amidst a bunch of other BS, but the info would be out there. What's out there is that he was late for class and that only mid major schools and JUCOs are interested.

Who said something happened in the locker room?  

It was a euphemism... "behind close doors"... "in the room"... etc. Let's not split hairs or play semantics.

No.  The two situations are absolutely nothing alike one another. 

Based on the public information, they both look like minor academic problems to me. Except one is a high major running back and the other is a mid major slot receiver.

Obviously there is more to it than that, Jeff.  Butch isn't going to run a kid for something as simple as that. 

Funny that everything else that happens in that locker room hits Twitter in 2 hours but there is literally nothing about anything else regarding Joc Bruce.

All due respect, Jeff, I have been pretty danged close to this one for the last year and a half.  I was the play by play guy for South-Doyle last season and have been around Joc a lot - and had many conversations with him - during that time.  His coach, of course, was Clark Duncan, who coached my son at Powell and has been a good friend for about 15 years now.  

Never said that your post wasn't valid, but Joc was going to play this year - and especially being a special teams guy, but not limited to that.  Special teams was going to get him on the field first, but with the need at WR he likely would have gotten some time there, too.  

There is an assumption that he hasn't gotten "power 5" attention, which is just not accurate.  Clark got tons of "power 5" inquiries during the season, but Joc told them that he was done after UT offered and he verbaled and he wasn't interested.  UT was his Holy Grail, which is one of the reasons why I am so baffled by the recent happenings.  

Sometimes kids just screw up and end up having to go down a level or two.  We've all seen it happen.  I believe this to be one of those times.  

  

If he got tons of power 5 attention, why is he going to go to Arkansas State? The kid from Wisconsin that they are clearing space for has interest from every SEC school, the Pac 10, the Big 10, etc. That kid wasn't academically accepted to Wisconsin. Similar situation, no?

You can name all the connections you want, the fact that the schools showing interest are the Ak States, Memphis's, and NE Oklahoma A&M's of the world speaks volumes to his prospects as a D1 athlete. I'll continue to believe what I believe.

I'll jump in with both feet. If that's an accurate reflection of what happened, it's disgusting. I realize it's the new way in college football, but I hate the win-at-all-costs mentality that has slowly surfaced over the last couple of decades. I don't like it, regardless of whether it's Saban doing it or Butch doing it. I suppose it is what it is, but things like this and high ticket prices will ultimately drive me away from college football, I figure. (I fully realize college football isn't going to miss me when I'm gone, but I can still gripe about it.  )

Yeah the only thing I can say to this is maybe you should stick to fishing lol. The fans drive the win at all costs mentality because winning breeds ticket sales and merchandise sales. Money breeds higher coaches salaries and higher expectations. Coaches are under immense pressure to win to keep their jobs. Either Butch uses times like these to make tough, unfair decisions to get better players, or he ultimately gets fired based on the expectations of fans who want to win but at the same time somehow expect them to "do the right thing".

According to the KNS article Saturday, Joc tweeted he got suspended for being late to class and not for grades. IMO it must not have been for a single or isolated incident. So he decided to go elsewhere after talking to coaches.  Having the discipline to be on time to class (even one to dislike or love) is very important to this staff. Unless Joc tells more, we will never know the true reason. But he is now gone, so it is time to close that chapter and move on. Speculation aside, it was obviously not meet to be so why dwell on things no one has information on. It just did not work out.

Joc Bruce... late to class in his first term... gone.

Jalen Hurd... cited underage drinking during the season... still on the team.

Charles Mosely... DUI / weed... still on the team.

Pig Howard... weed, insolence, bad teammate for the whole first year Butch was at UT... still on the team.

The only players this staff have gotten rid of are ones who are a) academically ineligible b) Domestic issues and c) facing felony criminal charges. This is the way of bigtime college football.

Have to disagree with you, my friend.

Joc was going to play at UT and play early.  He was going to get a legit shot to be a special teams guy from day one.  And that's first party info, not third or fourth party rumor.

Joc screwed up.  He blew a golden opportunity and now either has to prove he has what it takes to make it, or prove his critics correct. 

Looks like he may well end up at Arkansas State at this point.  He is a qualifier and doesn't have to go the juco route unless he wants to try to get back to the power 5 level. 

He was never going to be more than a special teamer. If he was going to be more than that, you wouldn't have typed the last 13 words you typed because a power 5 school would be all over him. First hand info that he was going to play on teams does not make my post inaccurate.

Butch took him too early and didn't want to rescind his offer because he was a local prospect... bad PR. If he was actually a good player, it wouldn't matter what he did, he wouldn't be off the team. Justin Martin told Butch that he'd better shut his fizzleing mouth this past week... still on the team because the guy can play.

Careful, the sheriff is back in town ...

droner would never make it in my group

Of course he still makes more money than me, so..

I think I counted ten questions already so I've missed my window of opportunity. I was going to ask if the "Hokey Pokey" is really what it's all about but I fumbled the ball. 

I'm feeling generous so I will answer.

No.

He got processed to open up room for the kid that didn't get into Wisconsin.

This is the same way Saban does it. Y'all worrywarts wanna win or not?

I haven't posted on this board regularly for like 3 (?) years and I have over 40,000 posts.

LOL