VTTW Board Index
May 05, 2024, 06:09:46 EDT *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Game and TV Information - Next football game: Tennessee at Missouri, November 11, 2023, 3:30 p.m. ET, CBS. Go Big Orange!

Message Board Links - Wayne and Hobbes' Auburn Board, Mudlizard's Vitual Swamp
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: "The East is so weak"  (Read 3102 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
BanditVol
Heisman
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 23695


View Profile
« on: November 08, 2016, 09:17:22 EST »

Well, yeah it is.  But here are the recruiting rankings of the 3 traditional powers averaged over the last 4 years:

Uga 9
Vols 10
Gaytors 12

One thing to say is it's nice to finally have more talent than Florida, even if the gap is small and insignificant.

Basically the talent is about even, and we beat both of our major rivals this year. Tamu for that matter is 11th over the same stretch.  So you can say that in games where we faced roughly equal talent, we were 2-1, with one narrow win, one narrow loss, and a convincing win (over our biggest East rival, no less).

USC jr talent is 20th....no we should not have lost to them, but then again, based on talent only Florida should not have lost to Ark nor Georgia to Vandy (DEFINITELY not).

So yes, the East is weak, but we are still the best team in it.  But is an average of around 10th in recruiting good enough to be a dominant team?  It sure looks like it isn't.

Logged

"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.”  G. Patton
Creek Walker
Guest
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 02:01:55 EST »

It's nice to finally beat our top two divisional rivals again, but to be honest it would've been almost criminal if we hadn't, given the scenario...and, yet, we could've easily lost to both of them. That's the part that is disconcerting to me, in retrospect. The East is incredibly weak this year, the weakest it's ever been, and we could very easily be 0-3 against SEC East teams right now.

Those recruiting compilations argue that we are even with UF and UGA, making the fact that we beat both of them in the same year a major feat. It is a significant accomplishment, given what those games have traditionally meant to us, but those compilations don't tell the whole story. Poor recruiting by Muschamp left UF with what seemed like a stocked roster on paper but with no offensive firepower. McElwain still doesn't have the horses in place to run his system. The result is the weakest offense we've seen from a Florida team since the Spurrier era began -- and actually since several years before the Spurrier era began. UGA has a talented team but is still stuck firmly in transition mode. First-year head coaches are always going to have hiccups, no matter how good they are. Alabama lost to one of the directional Louisiana teams in Saban's first year. And, frankly, UGA's current struggles look like they're more serious than transitional pains. The early verdict on Kirby Smart is that he's going to go into the same basket as so many of the other rotten fruits from Saban's coaching tree.


The SEC East is 1-9 against the SEC West this season, with the lone win being Kentucky's 40-38 win over Mississippi State. In the other nine games, the West has outscored the East 233-121. Take away our game against Texas A&M and no team from the East has scored more than 16 points against a team from the West this season.

Those are abysmal numbers. They're made worse when you look at how much the East has struggled against non-Power 5 opponents. Missouri struggled to beat Middle Tennessee (51-45), South Carolina struggled to beat UMass (34-28) and East Carolina (20-15), Vandy struggled to beat Western Kentucky (31-30) and even a lowly Tennessee State team from the FCS (35-17). Kentucky lost to Southern Miss, giving up 44 points. We struggled against Appalachian State (overtime) and Ohio (28-19). Georgia struggled against Nicholls (26-24). Florida struggled against UMass (24-7).

It's hard to take much pride in anything we've done against East teams this year. I hope we win the division. The program needs it, we need the exposure, and I would like to see if we can do any better against Alabama with a semi-healthy team. But the fact that we're struggling so much against a division that is so weak makes the fact that we're sitting here in November hoping for someone else to lose even more frustrating.
Logged
BanditVol
Heisman
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 23695


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2016, 03:03:49 EST »

It's nice to finally beat our top two divisional rivals again, but to be honest it would've been almost criminal if we hadn't, given the scenario...and, yet, we could've easily lost to both of them. That's the part that is disconcerting to me, in retrospect. The East is incredibly weak this year, the weakest it's ever been, and we could very easily be 0-3 against SEC East teams right now.

Those recruiting compilations argue that we are even with UF and UGA, making the fact that we beat both of them in the same year a major feat. It is a significant accomplishment, given what those games have traditionally meant to us, but those compilations don't tell the whole story. Poor recruiting by Muschamp left UF with what seemed like a stocked roster on paper but with no offensive firepower. McElwain still doesn't have the horses in place to run his system. The result is the weakest offense we've seen from a Florida team since the Spurrier era began -- and actually since several years before the Spurrier era began. UGA has a talented team but is still stuck firmly in transition mode. First-year head coaches are always going to have hiccups, no matter how good they are. Alabama lost to one of the directional Louisiana teams in Saban's first year. And, frankly, UGA's current struggles look like they're more serious than transitional pains. The early verdict on Kirby Smart is that he's going to go into the same basket as so many of the other rotten fruits from Saban's coaching tree.


The SEC East is 1-9 against the SEC West this season, with the lone win being Kentucky's 40-38 win over Mississippi State. In the other nine games, the West has outscored the East 233-121. Take away our game against Texas A&M and no team from the East has scored more than 16 points against a team from the West this season.

Those are abysmal numbers. They're made worse when you look at how much the East has struggled against non-Power 5 opponents. Missouri struggled to beat Middle Tennessee (51-45), South Carolina struggled to beat UMass (34-28) and East Carolina (20-15), Vandy struggled to beat Western Kentucky (31-30) and even a lowly Tennessee State team from the FCS (35-17). Kentucky lost to Southern Miss, giving up 44 points. We struggled against Appalachian State (overtime) and Ohio (28-19). Georgia struggled against Nicholls (26-24). Florida struggled against UMass (24-7).

It's hard to take much pride in anything we've done against East teams this year. I hope we win the division. The program needs it, we need the exposure, and I would like to see if we can do any better against Alabama with a semi-healthy team. But the fact that we're struggling so much against a division that is so weak makes the fact that we're sitting here in November hoping for someone else to lose even more frustrating.

I agree with most of what you say, but what I am pushing back against a bit is the part that is bolded.   I don't think it would be "almost criminal" to not beat both Florida and Georgia.  Frankly, I expected us to lose to Georgia, though I did expect a win against Florida.

Beating both exceeded my preseason expectations.   

Having said that, I was also on record as saying beating Florida was pretty much a "must do".  Also, given how Georgia has struggled this year, beating them is not as impressive.

I still don't think it's a cakewalk against those two traditional powers, no matter who the coach is. 

I will give you this....if we had blown out both Georgia and Florida, it would be clear evidence that Butch is a much better coach than Donkey and Smart, and as it is, based on this year alone, I would say he's only slightly better.  Maybe that's what folks are disappointed about, but given that the talent is about even, I don't expect us to just walk all over either one of them.
Logged

"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.”  G. Patton
Tnphil
All-American
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7041


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2016, 03:57:44 EST »

It's nice to finally beat our top two divisional rivals again, but to be honest it would've been almost criminal if we hadn't, given the scenario...and, yet, we could've easily lost to both of them. That's the part that is disconcerting to me, in retrospect. The East is incredibly weak this year, the weakest it's ever been, and we could very easily be 0-3 against SEC East teams right now.

Those recruiting compilations argue that we are even with UF and UGA, making the fact that we beat both of them in the same year a major feat. It is a significant accomplishment, given what those games have traditionally meant to us, but those compilations don't tell the whole story. Poor recruiting by Muschamp left UF with what seemed like a stocked roster on paper but with no offensive firepower. McElwain still doesn't have the horses in place to run his system. The result is the weakest offense we've seen from a Florida team since the Spurrier era began -- and actually since several years before the Spurrier era began. UGA has a talented team but is still stuck firmly in transition mode. First-year head coaches are always going to have hiccups, no matter how good they are. Alabama lost to one of the directional Louisiana teams in Saban's first year. And, frankly, UGA's current struggles look like they're more serious than transitional pains. The early verdict on Kirby Smart is that he's going to go into the same basket as so many of the other rotten fruits from Saban's coaching tree.


The SEC East is 1-9 against the SEC West this season, with the lone win being Kentucky's 40-38 win over Mississippi State. In the other nine games, the West has outscored the East 233-121. Take away our game against Texas A&M and no team from the East has scored more than 16 points against a team from the West this season.

Those are abysmal numbers. They're made worse when you look at how much the East has struggled against non-Power 5 opponents. Missouri struggled to beat Middle Tennessee (51-45), South Carolina struggled to beat UMass (34-28) and East Carolina (20-15), Vandy struggled to beat Western Kentucky (31-30) and even a lowly Tennessee State team from the FCS (35-17). Kentucky lost to Southern Miss, giving up 44 points. We struggled against Appalachian State (overtime) and Ohio (28-19). Georgia struggled against Nicholls (26-24). Florida struggled against UMass (24-7).

It's hard to take much pride in anything we've done against East teams this year. I hope we win the division. The program needs it, we need the exposure, and I would like to see if we can do any better against Alabama with a semi-healthy team. But the fact that we're struggling so much against a division that is so weak makes the fact that we're sitting here in November hoping for someone else to lose even more frustrating.

Good post Creek but 1 correction.....MTSU beat Mizzou.

A lot of the East's issue is QB play and the passing game. Who in the East has a QB that fills the air and hit his target...I can't think of 1. The best passer in the SEC IMO was Kelly at Ole Miss. The kid at UGA Easton will be a good one....The USC freshman looks good and will be good in time.

Who would have ever thought.....UT would beat both UGA and Florida in the same season and we'd be ranked 33rd. (coaches Poll). Unreal.
Logged
73Volgrad
All-SEC
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1170


This is me on Liberty Island weekend before 9-11


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 05:43:41 EST »

This sounds like the lead line in comedy act where the audience yells back "How weak is it?". The performer then gives a whole series of punch line.

Yes the East is a weak division. IMO that is because of the poor QB play and development. It is hard to keep a QB healthy and able to develop when he is running for his life most downs. They tend to flash signs of greatness that 1st year and get hurt late that 1st year or in 2nd year. The new head coaches may change that trend. I still think that even with a great defense, you still need to have a decent offense that can score points consistently.
Logged
volsboy
All-SEC
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4407



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 07:02:27 EST »

It all depends on the talent you bring in and how you coach them up. Look at the West coaches vs the East coaches. Not much comparison. The only excuse is that most of the East coaches are fairly new to their positions.
Logged

volsboyinsodak
BanditVol
Heisman
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 23695


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 07:36:33 EST »

It all depends on the talent you bring in and how you coach them up. Look at the West coaches vs the East coaches. Not much comparison. The only excuse is that most of the East coaches are fairly new to their positions.

Which West coaches, other than Saban?  Saban has a huge, huge talent advantage.

Other than that, we almost beat Tamu (should have).   Yes, Florida will probably (I hope) lose to LSU, but I think LSU is also more talented.   Ole Miss schooled uga, but uga has really underperformed this year.  The rest of the East arguably has a big talent deficit with the west.  And yes, the bottom of the East is much worse than the west, generally speaking.  Vandy is the weakest traditional SEC team, and Kentucky the second weakest.  Then when Ark/USC came into the league, Arkansas had...by far...much more tradition.  The same is true of Tamu and Mizzou (Missouri has a bit more tradition than USC and Tamu maybe a tad less than Ark, but no question Tamu is better than Mizzou historically).

So other than the top three, who have all recently been down, the east is far weaker than the west.
Logged

"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.”  G. Patton
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!