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Author Topic: The good, the bad and the ugly  (Read 8588 times)
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Creek Walker
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« on: September 05, 2017, 07:01:19 EDT »

The good: Marquez Callaway had himself a little coming out party tonight. John Kelly was flat-out effective...not that any of us doubted it but the rest of the college football world has been very slow to give him his due. And once he settled down, Quinten Dormady played well. Credit Butch Jones for sticking with his young QB. Most of us would've probably had Jarrett Guarantano in the game at some point in the second quarter. I don't think there's any doubt who the starting QB is (and given Dormady's reaction on the sideline, I'm not sure it's going to go over well).

The bad: Aside from Tennessee's O-line play in the first half and the receivers' dropped balls, one of the worst performances in this game was the officiating crew. Some of those blatant missed calls were just inexcusable. Callaway getting his face mask ripped off late fourth quarter was one of them...but even more atrocious were the missed holds on two GaTech TDs — one on the edge on the final TD of regulation, and the other at the goal line on the second overtime TD. (Herbstreit called both of them "great blocks," which was laughable.) The worst of all was the block in the back that allowed GaTech to get well into field goal range at the end of regulation. Fortunately, they were all rendered moot by big plays at opportune times, but that Big Ten crew has surely had better games than this one...I hope.

The ugly: Just about anything about this Tennessee defense (with the exception of the forced fumble by Gaulden and the two-point-conversion stuff by Taylor). I hoped the new assistants and a relatively healthy unit would turn things around for Bob Shoop, but it wasn't happening tonight. We knew GaTech presented matchup problems, but this was about more than matchup problems. Poor tackling technique, poor pursuit angles, poor cutback discipline...just bad, bad defense. We gave up 249 and 5 TDs to a kid who was recruited by the likes of Jacksonville State, Georgia Southern, Kennesaw State and Wofford. He had THREE Power Five offers and we made him look like a Heisman contender. Giving up 535 yards rushing...yikes.

I don't know where this team goes from here. There were some concerns that were exposed tonight. But talking about a win is always more fun than talking about the head coach's job security...and for all his cliches, Butch was right about one thing: This team's will to win tonight. That's what perseverance looks like.
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Tnphil
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 07:43:47 EDT »

Really shocked our DL was on skates all night against 2 star Tech offensive line. If our defense doesn't get much...much better we are in for a long season.

Great win...didn't quit. But 650 yards against our defense is pitiful. Cut Shoops salary in half and if he doesn't like it show him the door. Hoke couldn't be worse. Need Tuttle back...QUICK!
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 11:55:52 EDT »

Really shocked our DL was on skates all night against 2 star Tech offensive line. If our defense doesn't get much...much better we are in for a long season.

Great win...didn't quit. But 650 yards against our defense is pitiful. Cut Shoops salary in half and if he doesn't like it show him the door. Hoke couldn't be worse. Need Tuttle back...QUICK!
It seemed after the first two series, when they went with the counter play we were reacting, not forcing the play.  That and our DTs were getting abused.  The 2 pt play the defense for the first time in awhile was aggressive and it showed.

For most of the 2nd and 3rd quarters we played the pitch very well and forced the QB to keep the ball but the inside pursuit wasn't there, not getting off their blocks.  Then we adjusted and covered the QB and the pitch was open.

For all their tackles, the LB play was poor most of the night IMO
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 12:47:36 EDT »

Jancek was not great, but neither was he awful. We're at awful right now. Part of that was Jumper's ability to get wide. He and McDowell seem to know their keys, but can't move fast enough.
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 02:13:40 EDT »

Jancek was not great, but neither was he awful. We're at awful right now. Part of that was Jumper's ability to get wide. He and McDowell seem to know their keys, but can't move fast enough.

I'm not so sure that I would say that the defense as a whole was terrible, just a bit apprehensive. I noticed that they lined up most of the night a yard or more off of the ball because of GT's propensity to cut block. While it negated a lot more injuries, it also allowed the GT O-line to hit them with a lot more force and knock UT off of the line of scrimmage.

I think a lot of the poor play was due to schemes that avoided injury
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 03:53:22 EDT »

Really shocked our DL was on skates all night against 2 star Tech offensive line. If our defense doesn't get much...much better we are in for a long season.

Great win...didn't quit. But 650 yards against our defense is pitiful. Cut Shoops salary in half and if he doesn't like it show him the door. Hoke couldn't be worse. Need Tuttle back...QUICK!

Agree.  One thing I was thinking last night is, at what point do we let Shoops go?  I say one more game like this, show him the door.  Or worst case, midseason.

Unless we improve of course.  Not holding my breath though.

As for Tuttle...could not agree more.  Unfortunately after 5 years I can read the Butch Jones injury tea leaves.  Tuttle is IMO a permanent walking wounded this season and will see limited if any action and be ineffective when he does play.  Unfortunately....
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 03:58:45 EDT »

OP, I know I strongly disagreed that this game would "make or break the season", and I still do.

However taking a closer look at our schedule the momentum it gives us is considerable. That it sets the tone for the rest of the season I agree (just not that the season is over after one game ).

We now have two patsies and a very beatable Florida on our September schedule...two auto-wins and a very winnable SEC road game against what is still our major East rival.   This close escape has set the stage to having a nice run up to the Georgia game, and I am not sold on Kirby yet either and that's in Neyland.

Having said that, our wretched run D needs to improve.  Florida will be able to run on us if it doesn't, and I shudder to think what the Uga running backs could do to us.

If that one glaring weakness is addressed, we could be undefeated headed into bammer. 

So yes this game was very important to the overall momentum of the season, just not the end or even the beginning of the end if we lose.

It did however and unfortunately put our run D squarely in the targets of every remaining OC on our schedule.   
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 06:21:14 EDT »

The scary thing about this defensive performance is that they had all summer to prepare for GaTech. I just hope the SEC offenses are easier to defend against the run than this offense. If not, how many yards do UGa, Bama and LSU rack up? Plus they aren't as one dimensional as GaTech.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 06:40:49 EDT »

Really shocked our DL was on skates all night against 2 star Tech offensive line. If our defense doesn't get much...much better we are in for a long season.

Great win...didn't quit. But 650 yards against our defense is pitiful. Cut Shoops salary in half and if he doesn't like it show him the door. Hoke couldn't be worse. Need Tuttle back...QUICK!

KMac in particular... there was a play where GT had the ball down inside the 5 and they showed the replay in slow motion... not only does Kmac get blown off the ball but he got knocked plumb into the endzone from about the 4 yard line.

I'm really trying to hold out hope that our atrocious defense was exacerbated by GT's goofy offense and our slow start on offense.  Surely we're not THAT bad, right?

There were a lot of similarities with this game and the Air Force game back in 06 or 07.  Idk how many rushing yards AF had that day but I remember the same helpless feeling and just like that day we won on a failed 2pt conversion attempt.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 06:46:40 EDT by VinnieVOL » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 07:21:37 EDT »

completely get down on the D I want to see how we perform against a more traditional O....just not sure how much the flexbone impacted our play. I do know I rewatched the 2nd half this A.M. and the cut blocking kept guys from getting to the ball with lots of momentum because they had to be ready to use their hands to keep the diving blocker off of them.     
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 10:00:42 EDT »

First off, I'm no football coach so anything (or everything) that I think could be inaccurate.

We were definitely handled on the LOS. Jumper is not an SEC caliber LB, although the kid has a ton of heart and grit. Martin didn't play well at all.

That said, I think the total ineptness of our D to stop the rush against this offense was due, at least in part, to the fact that we were lined up so far off the LOS with only 4 defenders in the middle for much of the night. This made for a soft middle and allowed the QB to run up the gut with ease.

Add to that our corners didn't play press D on their receivers and were therefore AWOL against stopping the pitch until the rushers were 7-10 yards downfield.

While I suspect that this scheme was employed to avoid injuries, I couldn't believe that we didn't make adjustments to try to correct the issues.  We simply allowed them to run over us all night long.

I personally think that the staff was willing to risk defeat in order to minimize injury.
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 10:20:28 EDT »

First off, I'm no football coach so anything (or everything) that I think could be inaccurate.

We were definitely handled on the LOS. Jumper is not an SEC caliber LB, although the kid has a ton of heart and grit. Martin didn't play well at all.

That said, I think the total ineptness of our D to stop the rush against this offense was due, at least in part, to the fact that we were lined up so far off the LOS with only 4 defenders in the middle for much of the night. This made for a soft middle and allowed the QB to run up the gut with ease.

Add to that our corners didn't play press D on their receivers and were therefore AWOL against stopping the pitch until the rushers were 7-10 yards downfield.

While I suspect that this scheme was employed to avoid injuries, I couldn't believe that we didn't make adjustments to try to correct the issues.  We simply allowed them to run over us all night long.

I personally think that the staff was willing to risk defeat in order to minimize injury.

I could be wrong, but didn't the whole "DLine lining up a yard or two off of the line of scrimmage" thing started in the 2nd half didn't it?  I viewed it as an attempted adjustement (that obviously didn't work) and I've read and heard it discussed as the intent was to allow the D linemen an extra moment to be able to react to the way the action of GT's offensive play went rather than being immediately engaged by the blocker and then having to also react.  Honestly I didn't even think about it being an attempt to minimize injury.
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 11:00:12 EDT »

I could be wrong, but didn't the whole "DLine lining up a yard or two off of the line of scrimmage" thing started in the 2nd half didn't it?  I viewed it as an attempted adjustement (that obviously didn't work) and I've read and heard it discussed as the intent was to allow the D linemen an extra moment to be able to react to the way the action of GT's offensive play went rather than being immediately engaged by the blocker and then having to also react.  Honestly I didn't even think about it being an attempt to minimize injury.

The D line was a full yard off the ball early in the first quarter. Can't say that we started the game with this because I haven't gone back and looked, but I noticed it after a friend who was at the game texted me in the first quarter asking if the commentators had mentioned a possible reason for it. Jumper was 5 to 6 yards off the LOS.

I hadn't heard the explanation that you mentioned about giving the linemen time to react (could be correct). Most of the explanations I've heard and read seemed to suggest it was to minimize effectiveness of the cut blocks employed by their offensive linemen.

Here's a highlight video. At about the 28 second mark, its clear that we were even off the LOS when they were 3rd and goal from inside the one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G7zklCLAz9Y
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 11:14:42 EDT by JeffCountyVolFan » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 01:08:51 EDT »

The D line was a full yard off the ball early in the first quarter. Can't say that we started the game with this because I haven't gone back and looked, but I noticed it after a friend who was at the game texted me in the first quarter asking if the commentators had mentioned a possible reason for it. Jumper was 5 to 6 yards off the LOS.

I hadn't heard the explanation that you mentioned about giving the linemen time to react (could be correct). Most of the explanations I've heard and read seemed to suggest it was to minimize effectiveness of the cut blocks employed by their offensive linemen.

Here's a highlight video. At about the 28 second mark, its clear that we were even off the LOS when they were 3rd and goal from inside the one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G7zklCLAz9Y



Ah, you're right.  Idk why I didn't see it sooner.  Whatever the reason, it was a tweak that wasn't effective in slowing them down.
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 01:40:19 EDT »

I may have never noticed if the friend hasn't bright it to my attention. After that, I found it blaringly obvious. 

Further proof that I'm no football expert, I guess.
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 02:03:12 EDT »

It seemed after the first two series, when they went with the counter play we were reacting, not forcing the play.  That and our DTs were getting abused.  The 2 pt play the defense for the first time in awhile was aggressive and it showed.

For most of the 2nd and 3rd quarters we played the pitch very well and forced the QB to keep the ball but the inside pursuit wasn't there, not getting off their blocks.  Then we adjusted and covered the QB and the pitch was open.

For all their tackles, the LB play was poor most of the night IMO

Correct on the LB play......When they run the dive and the QB keeper 247 times sure your LB stats look good. Jumper has heart....gives it all he's got but his got isn't SEC level. He'd have a very hard time starting for Memphis State. Not his fault but the fault of our recruiting.

Unless our defense improves a WHOLE LOT....we will lose 5 games regular season. Shoops is the 2nd highest overpaid DC in the SEC behind Chavis to this point
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 02:05:26 EDT by Tnphil » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 02:29:18 EDT »

Correct on the LB play......When they run the dive and the QB keeper 247 times sure your LB stats look good. Jumper has heart....gives it all he's got but his got isn't SEC level. He'd have a very hard time starting for Memphis State. Not his fault but the fault of our recruiting.

Unless our defense improves a WHOLE LOT....we will lose 5 games regular season. Shoops is the 2nd highest overpaid DC in the SEC behind Chavis to this point

I agree that Shoops looks like a terrible DC. How do you think was he so successful at Vandy and PSU? Was Franklin the real mastermind behind those defenses?
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 08:09:23 EDT »

I agree that Shoops looks like a terrible DC. How do you think was he so successful at Vandy and PSU? Was Franklin the real mastermind behind those defenses?

Pretty sure he was.  Agree with a lot of what I see above in general. Namely, I love Jumper's heart, and think he's great at spelling the starters here and there, but is he REALLY all we have at MLB?  did he sit a single play last night?  if so, I didn't see it.  Is Elliot Berry really that bad?  He was third on the depth chart, possibly due to injuries, but I would have liked to at least see Dylan Bates (supposedly promoted to second string due to "being good against the option in practice") get a few looks.

As for Kmac...he does look soft. I fear that missing his senior year was a bigger hit than most realize and that he is struggling. Still, maybe he can pull it together.

I did notice how deep the LBs were, but didn't notice that about the DL.  Having said that, it has to have been a terrible idea, just based on the result on the field.

Finally, I have said it elsewhere, but I will repeat it here. I am beginning to think our only hope of better than 7-5 (or worse!) is to replace Shoop with Hoke.  In fact, I even wonder if that factored into Butch's decision to hire Hoke, and I almost hope it did. 
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 01:42:19 EDT »

Pretty sure he was.  Agree with a lot of what I see above in general. Namely, I love Jumper's heart, and think he's great at spelling the starters here and there, but is he REALLY all we have at MLB?  did he sit a single play last night?  if so, I didn't see it.  Is Elliot Berry really that bad?  He was third on the depth chart, possibly due to injuries, but I would have liked to at least see Dylan Bates (supposedly promoted to second string due to "being good against the option in practice") get a few looks.

As for Kmac...he does look soft. I fear that missing his senior year was a bigger hit than most realize and that he is struggling. Still, maybe he can pull it together.

I did notice how deep the LBs were, but didn't notice that about the DL.  Having said that, it has to have been a terrible idea, just based on the result on the field.

Finally, I have said it elsewhere, but I will repeat it here. I am beginning to think our only hope of better than 7-5 (or worse!) is to replace Shoop with Hoke.  In fact, I even wonder if that factored into Butch's decision to hire Hoke, and I almost hope it did. 
Bates was on the field at least twice I saw.  What I saw made Jumper look good.
I didn't see Berry (watching via TV sucks) but doesn't mean he didn't play.

Re: Kmac:  saw him get pushed around but went back and looked earlier in the game and saw him play much better (on an earlier TD he just missed the QB in the backfield).  Believe he just got tired from the near 100 plays they ran.

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All men dream: but not equally.
Those who Dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds
Wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the
Dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they
May act their dream with open eyes, to make it Possible.
This I did.
—T. E. Lawrence,
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." - David Hackworth

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
General James "Mad Dog" Mattis
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 01:44:11 EDT »

Did Will Ignont play?  He was drawing raves in camp.
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 03:30:50 EDT »

Did Will Ignont play?  He was drawing raves in camp.

was wondering the same

@pirate...good to hear about Kmac.  Maybe some of the younger DL talent can step up and give him some rest.  Still...that is conditioning, which goes to my point.
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