Have we ever made it to the Elite Eight?

[tnflower]

 

[Clockwork Orange]

Once. Bruce.

[tnflower]

Thanks. I couldn't remember.

[TallVol]

We made it to the elite 8, beat OSU to get there, Motta got pissed and then the BBQ happened.... Motta got his revenge.  Did I remember that correctly?

[BanditVol]

We made it to the elite 8, beat OSU to get there, Motta got pissed and then the BBQ happened.... Motta got his revenge.  Did I remember that

correctly?

Yep.  Aaron fizzleing Craft...king of the rats   

[Creek Walker]

I despise Ohio State as a general rule and relish their defeats, but Tennessee fans who are angry over Motta or Craft are no different than the knuckleheads in Alabama who have raked Fulmer over the coals for years and made it next to impossible for him to attend SEC Media Days.

[BanditVol]

I despise Ohio State as a general rule and relish their defeats, but Tennessee fans who are angry over Motta or Craft are no different than the knuckleheads in Alabama who have raked Fulmer over the coals for years and made it next to impossible for him to attend SEC Media Days.

Oh I dunno...there's a difference between paying 100K for a player and, I don't know, getting a free meal when the coach probably didn't even realize it was a violation.  And it's definitely rat-like behavior to only report it after you get your ass beat.

But let's be clear...Aaron Craft wasn't the downfall of Bruce, Bruce was.  He didn't have to lie to the NCAA.  But maybe not surprising for a guy that lied to his wife.

Bruce destroyed himself. 

Doesn't mean I have to like Craft.   

[HerbTarlekVol]

Oh I dunno...there's a difference between paying 100K for a player and, I don't know, getting a free meal when the coach probably didn't even realize it was a violation.  And it's definitely rat-like behavior to only report it after you get your ass beat.

But let's be clear...Aaron Craft wasn't the downfall of Bruce, Bruce was.  He didn't have to lie to the NCAA.  But maybe not surprising for a guy that lied to his wife.

Bruce destroyed himself.  

Doesn't mean I have to like Craft.  

Coach didn't realize it was a violation?  

Bandit - Pearl told the recruits (Craft, Selby, McRae) in attendance while they were there that it was a violation and to "lay low" about it.  Bruce knew the rules, and even if he didn't ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  

[VinnieVOL]

Coach didn't realize it was a violation?  

Bandit - Pearl told the recruits (Craft, Selby, McRae) in attendance while they were there that it was a violation and to "lay low" about it.  Bruce knew the rules, and even if he didn't ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  

This is the brazen, defiant, "I'll do what I want because I'm BP" side of Bruce that I just can't get over.  Have other coaches done worse and gotten away with it?  Sure, doesn't change the situation for me.  He was very obviously doing and saying things that led the administration to believe they couldn't trust him, and maybe that lack of trust went both ways in the relationship but I still just can't understand the notion that it's Hammy's fault BP isn't our coach anymore.  Anyone who's in management here would surely react the same way if there was a similar lack of trust with one of your employees.  And no matter how much I like Bruce and all the joy he brought to Vol fans, the bottom line Bruce is the reason Bruce isn't at TN.  Regardless of all the noise surrounding the situation, all he had to do is be honest and he's still at TN.

And you can bet your billion dollar bracket that if given the information and opportunity that Matta had, if the roles were reversed Bruce would've buried a rival coach/program if given the opportunity and we would've cheered him on about it.  So while I hate OSU too, being angry at them over BP just doesn't make any rational sense either (like Creek said).

[BanditVol]

Coach didn't realize it was a violation?  

Bandit - Pearl told the recruits (Craft, Selby, McRae) in attendance while they were there that it was a violation and to "lay low" about it.  Bruce knew the rules, and even if he didn't ignorance of the rules is no excuse.  

Yeah, at one point I knew that and forgot it.  I really don't care.  I think I make it clear above that I don't really have that much sympathy for Pearl, and this just adds to that.

The main point of my post was to emphasize that I dislike Aaron Craft anyway.   

To rat someone out over a really minor thing AFTER you lose to them just seems really...I don't know...childish?   But it isn't just me...one of the ESPN blogs said that Craft was a "polarizing figure" in the Big 10.  Apparently he has rubbed quite a few people the wrong way.   

[HerbTarlekVol]

Yeah, at one point I knew that and forgot it.  I really don't care.  I think I make it clear above that I don't really have that much sympathy for Pearl, and this just adds to that.

The main point of my post was to emphasize that I dislike Aaron Craft anyway.   

To rat someone out over a really minor thing AFTER you lose to them just seems really...I don't know...childish?   But it isn't just me...one of the ESPN blogs said that Craft was a "polarizing figure" in the Big 10.  Apparently he has rubbed quite a few people the wrong way.   

Oh, I agree about Craft.  I don't think he and his father handled things very well, but much of that was due to Motta's insistence on turning Pearl and UT in.  That whole situation reeked. 

That, however, doesn't really matter.  Pearl knew better and still did it, anyway. 

[EmerilVOL]

This is the brazen, defiant, "I'll do what I want because I'm BP" side of Bruce that I just can't get over.  Have other coaches done worse and gotten away with it?  Sure, doesn't change the situation for me.  He was very obviously doing and saying things that led the administration to believe they couldn't trust him, and maybe that lack of trust went both ways in the relationship but I still just can't understand the notion that it's Hammy's fault BP isn't our coach anymore.  Anyone who's in management here would surely react the same way if there was a similar lack of trust with one of your employees.  And no matter how much I like Bruce and all the joy he brought to Vol fans, the bottom line Bruce is the reason Bruce isn't at TN.  Regardless of all the noise surrounding the situation, all he had to do is be honest and he's still at TN.

And you can bet your billion dollar bracket that if given the information and opportunity that Matta had, if the roles were reversed Bruce would've buried a rival coach/program if given the opportunity and we would've cheered him on about it.  So while I hate OSU too, being angry at them over BP just doesn't make any rational sense either (like Creek said).

Vinnie there were issues on both sides of the relationship.  Hamilton was upset over the facts of the BP case (which yes was BP's problem that he created) but also Hamilton was not going to lift a finger to help BP out of any NCAA jam as well due to the Kiffin fiasco.  Kiffin was such a monumental failure from a regulatory standpoint that the AD assigned a compliance official to be with Kiffin 24/7 practically.  When Kiffinator went out the official was with him due to Hostessgate and several other faux pas made by Kiffin.  The signing day allegations about Flip Flop Urbanator had Kiffin on the hot seat with Hamilton since Kiffin was being seen as a ROGUE coach by many within the SEC (not just the coaches) and Hamilton was taking some flack from that fiasco from the SEC.  Several lawyers I know have told me Hammy was in full CYA mode much more than what the KNS Fish Wrapper has reported.  When the BP episode happened Hammy was sure that he had led UT into having a NCAA meltdown and major sanctions for a long time.  Part of the deal after the meltdown in the NCAA tourney was for BP to take his buyout and exit stage left.  Several lawyers have told me that Hammy had tried to distance himself but many were sure Hamilton was involved since BP was his MAJOR hire up until the Kiffin firebomb.  

This comes from people I know and trust.

[BanditVol]

Vinnie there were issues on both sides of the relationship.  Hamilton was upset over the facts of the BP case (which yes was BP's problem that he created) but also Hamilton was not going to lift a finger to help BP out of any NCAA jam as well due to the Kiffin fiasco.  Kiffin was such a monumental failure from a regulatory standpoint that the AD assigned a compliance official to be with Kiffin 24/7 practically.  When Kiffinator went out the official was with him due to Hostessgate and several other faux pas made by Kiffin.  The signing day allegations about Flip Flop Urbanator had Kiffin on the hot seat with Hamilton since Kiffin was being seen as a ROGUE coach by many within the SEC (not just the coaches) and Hamilton was taking some flack from that fiasco from the SEC.  Several lawyers I know have told me Hammy was in full CYA mode much more than what the KNS Fish Wrapper has reported.  When the BP episode happened Hammy was sure that he had led UT into having a NCAA meltdown and major sanctions for a long time.  Part of the deal after the meltdown in the NCAA tourney was for BP to take his buyout and exit stage left.  Several lawyers have told me that Hammy had tried to distance himself but many were sure Hamilton was involved since BP was his MAJOR hire up until the Kiffin firebomb.  

This comes from people I know and trust.

Given what a disaster Kiffin was, not only from stuff he actually did, but by inviting scrutiny by constantly running his mouth, it would not surprise me that Pearl was sacrificed as an atonement to the NCAA.  Which is not to say that Pearl ddn't do anything wrong...he did.  But without the Kiffin part, Hamilton might have dug in a bit more.  But again, I am on record as saying I am 99.9% sure that Pearl was doing more than just a bar b que....all of which adds up to Pearl having to be let go.

But don't forget that Hamilton let the program get to this point.  Dickey likely would never have let things get so out of hand.  I think Hart is 100% better than Hamilton...wiat 1000%, wait...10,000%....

[VOLcrazi]

That is all

[HerbTarlekVol]

Given what a disaster Kiffin was, not only from stuff he actually did, but by inviting scrutiny by constantly running his mouth, it would not surprise me that Pearl was sacrificed as an atonement to the NCAA.  Which is not to say that Pearl ddn't do anything wrong...he did.  But without the Kiffin part, Hamilton might have dug in a bit more.  But again, I am on record as saying I am 99.9% sure that Pearl was doing more than just a bar b que....all of which adds up to Pearl having to be let go.

That's one of those areas where we have some common ground, Bandit.  My feeling all along was that if Pearl insisted on lying and try to cover up something as low level an infraction as was the barbecue that there were likely other more serious issues, too.  Just doesn't make sense to risk all that he had on the line for a slap on the wrists.  

And as I have said before, why would we hire back a guy that we fired who turned a barbecue in to a 3 year show cause?  Just made no sense to me.  

[Creek Walker]

There's a very simple reason why the "something bigger than a BBQ" reasoning doesn't hold water.

Remember when Tennessee decided to pull the trigger on Pearl? When Hamilton went on Knoxville radio on the eve of UT's trip to the NCAA Tournament to throw the team under the bus in an effort to persuade public perception? And when that still didn't work, because polls by the KNS showed overwhelming public support for Pearl? Remember when Cheek and Hamilton were to chicken-shizzle to face the media and announced via a fax that Pearl was being fired?

If you recall, they drummed up additional violations as part of that statement that Pearl had supposedly committed after his apology back on 9/10/10. The old media wouldn't touch it, simply printed it at face value, and it worked...people who had steadfastly supported Pearl up until that point said they could no longer support him because of these "additional violations."

And, if you recall, some of the new media actually did their homework to determine what these additional violations were. 1.) They were very minor infractions that 2.) Were not committed by Pearl but by assistants on his staff.

If Cheek and Hamilton were that desperate to turn the tables of public perception (and they were), you better believe that if they had any knowledge of further wrongdoing by Pearl, it would have been made public at that time. It wasn't, because the administration wasn't aware of any further wrongdoing.

[HerbTarlekVol]

There's a very simple reason why the "something bigger than a BBQ" reasoning doesn't hold water.

Remember when Tennessee decided to pull the trigger on Pearl? When Hamilton went on Knoxville radio on the eve of UT's trip to the NCAA Tournament to throw the team under the bus in an effort to persuade public perception? And when that still didn't work, because polls by the KNS showed overwhelming public support for Pearl? Remember when Cheek and Hamilton were to chicken-shizzle to face the media and announced via a fax that Pearl was being fired?

If you recall, they drummed up additional violations as part of that statement that Pearl had supposedly committed after his apology back on 9/10/10. The old media wouldn't touch it, simply printed it at face value, and it worked...people who had steadfastly supported Pearl up until that point said they could no longer support him because of these "additional violations."

And, if you recall, some of the new media actually did their homework to determine what these additional violations were. 1.) They were very minor infractions that 2.) Were not committed by Pearl but by assistants on his staff.

If Cheek and Hamilton were that desperate to turn the tables of public perception (and they were), you better believe that if they had any knowledge of further wrongdoing by Pearl, it would have been made public at that time. It wasn't, because the administration wasn't aware of any further wrongdoing.

Could it have been that the NCAA agreed to pull the plug on further investigation if Pearl were no longer in the equation?

Two things just don't make sense:

1.  Why did Pearl feel the need to lie about such an insignificant violation as the barbecue at his house, even to the point of "getting cover stories" straight with his assistants and then lie to his bosses and to NCAA investigators?   

2.  Why did Pearl allow the recruits to come to his home when he knew, and even told them, that it was a violation?  Did he feel himself above the law and that rules, no matter how trivial, didn't apply to him? 

Turned a minor violation in a a 3 year show cause.  That's factual, and opens up a slew of questions as to why and what else was going on. 

[BanditVol]

Could it have been that the NCAA agreed to pull the plug on further investigation if Pearl were no longer in the equation?

Highly likely but they may actually not have known..seems far more likely that they did though.

[BanditVol]

The reason I trust my source on the other stuff I have heard is because my source told me....weeks in advance, before this knowledge was public, EXACTLY how many players would transfer and EXACTLY where one of the "big two" was going to transfer to.

This is the reason I give my source credibility...almost the entire reason.  The other reason is simply that I find the individual honest in the sense of having no reason to make anything up or lie.