Well known already I am sure, but the plane is in the drink

[BanditVol]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-satellite-tracking/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

What I expected...still a very interesting case.

I am curious who the "space agency experts" were that verified the InMarsat method....I probably know them, unless they are European Space Agency.

I don't see anything "groundbreaking" about Doppler analsysis though...

Unless they are referring to the fact that it was applied to a plane using a ping, or the that to get the doppler off the ping required innovative signal analysis.

But Doppler for range has been around for decades..

[Volznut]

There's still a mystery though. What the hell happened ? Why did they turn? Why turn off the transponder?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Do what?  I thought CNN said it got swallowed up in a black hole.   

[BanditVol]

There's still a mystery though. What the hell happened ? Why did they turn? Why turn off the transponder?

Oh I agree...lots to still figure out.  I heard the depth of the ocean in the general area is as much as 23,000 feet...that's one of the deepest areas anywhere.  They have sent a deep sea robot to probe the area.  They may or may not find the black box.

It could be that the crew was incapcitated and on auto-pilot, it could be there was a struggle and the bad guys won, but got lost.  It could be that for some reason the pilot wanted to kill everyone but make the plane hard to find, IDK....

But now that they have at least a somewhat narrow area odds of finding the black box go up.

As for the Doppler I am told it was groundbreaking because they had to use a rather limited data set to be able to do the Doppler.  Very interesting to me, because this is my field.

[BanditVol]

Do what?  I thought CNN said it got swallowed up in a black hole.   

No, that's where their ratings are going now that most of the mystery is gone.   

Then again, as Nut points out, there is still a lot to figure out.  Brace yourself for more 24x7 coverage from the "Crash News Network"   

[PirateVOL]

Oh I agree...lots to still figure out.  I heard the depth of the ocean in the general area is as much as 23,000 feet...that's one of the deepest areas anywhere.  They have sent a deep sea robot to probe the area.  They may or may not find the black box.

It could be that the crew was incapcitated and on auto-pilot, it could be there was a struggle and the bad guys won, but got lost.  It could be that for some reason the pilot wanted to kill everyone but make the plane hard to find, IDK....

But now that they have at least a somewhat narrow area odds of finding the black box go up.

As for the Doppler I am told it was groundbreaking because they had to use a rather limited data set to be able to do the Doppler.  Very interesting to me, because this is my field.

Like you said, nothing nre with doppler, been used for numerous different functions for a long time.
I think the usefulness in this case was to determine which arc of the satelite coverage the pings came from.  A saw some analysis on another forum that inidcated the shifts were very small.

[Navol]

Like you said, nothing nre with doppler, been used for numerous different functions for a long time.
I think the usefulness in this case was to determine which arc of the satelite coverage the pings came from.  A saw some analysis on another forum that inidcated the shifts were very small.

Yeah, the doppler effect on an electromagnetic signal from a source traveling at only 600 mph wouldn't have much of a "red shift".

[PirateVOL]

Yeah, the doppler effect on an electromagnetic signal from a source traveling at only 600 mph wouldn't have much of a "red shift".

Don't you have a retirement to attend to??

[BanditVol]

Yeah, the doppler effect on an electromagnetic signal from a source traveling at only 600 mph wouldn't have much of a "red shift".

Or blue...

[BanditVol]

More details here:

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/novel_analysis_of_missing_mala.html

That states that they used the time of the ping for range estimates.  I wasn't thinking the ping had a time stamp from the plane.  But if it did, and if the clock was accurate to nanoseconds as the story says they could get range to a meter or so.  Since the Ga Tech prof says ~ 100 miles, if they were using timing it was less accurate than nanoseconds.

Doppler only gives velocity, and from what I can tell they were using it to estimate the direction of travel...combining multiple signals of that with a rough estimate on range would narrow it down to about the area they are searching.

I think they got it right and that wreckage will show up soon.  Hopefully they will find the black box.

[TheRealOrange]

There's still a mystery though. What the hell happened ? Why did they turn? Why turn off the transponder?

Catastrophic fire, immediately pulled the main electrical busses (restore circuits of needed systems when able), started a turn to the nearest place to put down, quickly became incapacitated, flew with crew and passengers unconscious, ran out of fuel.  Or not.   

[73Volgrad]

1.  Aliens?  I cannot believe those Ancient/Current alien wackos have not put this out there.
2.  Elvis?  Good a theory as any I have heard.
3.  Lost?  Maybe the island was not just a TV show.
4.  Why has no clairvoyant come forward to offer an explanation or offer to contact them?
5.  Passed through a dimensional or time-space rift and jumped into the past for future?

For what it is worth, my opinion is someone highjacked the plane for whatever reason and flew south to kill everyone.  We will never know why and may never find the plane.  This is a real head scratcher.

[Navol]

Or blue...

True dat; but the map shows they detected the range was increasing. I'm still not clear how the signals analysis woulda been any different if the plane was flying  a course180 degrees from what they say.

[BanditVol]

True dat; but the map shows they detected the range was increasing. I'm still not clear how the signals analysis woulda been any different if the plane was flying  a course 180 degrees from what they say.

I think they are saying that from the wave they can get not only a towards/away as in blue/red shift but that subtle differences in the waveform as to HOW MUCH it was compressed could get an actual angle estimate on the direction.  They knew what the max possible  shift was (which would have to be based on estimated speed...but according to the article they calibrated it from earlier data when the plane was still in contact). Smaller amounts give an angle estimate.  Say max red shift is 0, then max blue shift would be 180, no detectable shift, 90, etc.