What is reality for UT?

[Volznut]

The reality is that UT is the worst program in the SEC East right now, and in the bottom tier overall. Many reasons can be pointed out, but that is what we are right now. I was laughing at some people thinking we should be able to “show up” and beat teams like Vandy. Vandy has beaten us the last 5 out of 7 games now. The national expectation right now is that Vandy is better. The national perception and reality is that they are. We as UT fans are not entitled to great football teams. The 90s were 20-25 years ago. We have not won shizzle since 1998, really.

That is the harsh truth. So how does it change? Recruiting is the key. You have to have the talent, and you really have to have a dynamic QB to affect change. You need an OL and skill players. You need great S&C. We all know this – but when you start getting labeled as a bottom dweller, it is increasingly harder to recruit. Frankly, I am surprised the class is as good as it is, but how do you keep selling “Come play here, play a lot, but get your ass beat”?

I am not a negative person – but I don’t see a good season for at least 4-5 years, and that is IF we do all of the things above. Will we as fans be patient? KY was, and they have a 9 win season. Now we did have 3 – 9 win seasons under Butch not long ago, but we did it due to having a very dynamic QB who hid a lot of our deficiencies with his legs. Once he was gone you can see what happened.

Enjoy hoops for a while- because the football team will not be very good for a little while.

[Black Diamond Vol]

I am not a negative person – but I don’t see a good season for at least 4-5 years, and that is IF we do all of the things above. Will we as fans be patient? KY was, and they have a 9 win season. Now we did have 3 – 9 win seasons under Butch not long ago, but we did it due to having a very dynamic QB who hid a lot of our deficiencies with his legs. Once he was gone you can see what happened.

In five years, Butch won one SEC game with a QB not named Josh Dobbs. That's why I think he has to at least be in the discussion as our second greatest QB ever.

[Volznut]

A dynamic QB can change things in a hurry. Dobbs did it. Johnny Manziel, Michale Vick. I was very pissed when we didn't make Lawrence a priority, look what he is doing at Clemson.

[BanditVol]

The reality is that UT is the worst program in the SEC East right now, and in the bottom tier overall. Many reasons can be pointed out, but that is what we are right now. I was laughing at some people thinking we should be able to “show up” and beat teams like Vandy. Vandy has beaten us the last 5 out of 7 games now. The national expectation right now is that Vandy is better. The national perception and reality is that they are. We as UT fans are not entitled to great football teams. The 90s were 20-25 years ago. We have not won shizzle since 1998, really.

First point, can't argue that Vandy is not better. But I was one of the people - and no, I didn't say we could "show up and beat them" - but you can definitely make the case that we still have more talent than them.  Obviously their talent was better developed and coached and experienced playing as a team against us, but you know what?  So was Kentucky's.  Yes we are still more talented than Vandy, but -since you mention QB - their experienced senior is obviously much better than our still developing one and our coaches got schooled.

But you ignore the most important point of all. It has been widely reported that many upperclassmen, particularly seniors not coming back, didn't want to practice an additional month and dialed it in.  This is exactly what I saw Saturday.  I'm sorry, but we are and have played better than that sorry mess on the field Saturday and if this is true, and some underclassmen half assed it, Pruitt needs to boot them. Now.

I can send at least two player tweets to back up my claim.

Come on, are you saying Vandy wasn't more motivated?  I think that was by far the biggest factor.  UT on balance is still more talented though I will admit the gap has narrowed considerably.  I will say it's very true that we can't just show up and out talent Vandy anymore.  But our players have to want to beat them.  Period, dot.  Sadly I don't think that was the case Saturday. 

[Volznut]

I'm not speculating on all of that. I am telling you where we are as a program.

Our talent is also highly overrated.

[volsboy]

It is a QB driven sport. What team in the SECE had worse qb than we did. Answer: No one

[Volznut]

Arkansas.

[volsboy]

Unfortunately we didn't play them and they are in the West.

[Volznut]

Unfortunately we didn't play them and they are in the West.

Sorry, didn't notice you said SECE. I am not sure UK's QB is much better but he can run, and they have a better OL

I think JG has the tools to be a very good QB - but he has to improve a lot in his decision making. I fear he doesn't have good instincts either.

[wtkvol]

these senior and others have dialed in most of the last four years. As for talent we have neve had less than we have now.

[volsboy]

I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised throwing in a guy with no head coaching experience into the dumpster fire we have and have much better results. By comparison, Mullen inherited a 4-8 team as well, but he has them playing pretty dang well. He took over a big mess as well.

[Tnphil]

Yes..Mullen took over a dumpster after McElwain was fired about the same time Butch was....A program that finished 4-8 like we did....BUT. Unless you believer the star gazers that said Florida had been recruiting worse than us then that's your problem...They were recruiting SEC talent and we were recruiting MAC and Big East talent at several positions like the OL.....Florida red shirted some real good offensive linemen 2 years ago and several started this season.....Florida's OL and DL is head and shoulders better than we are......Florida hiring a good head coach in Mullen that had been pretty darn good at one of the worse places in the SEC to recruit to in Starkville, MS gave them a leg up on us.....I expect Florida/Mullen to be a force in the East for years to come no matter what the Star Geezers say. Mullen took someone else's talent this year and won 9 and with a good chance at winning 10 with the bowl game....And Mullen did a very good job turning Franks into a serviceable QB.

Butch Jones all but totally destroyed our program.....from the inside out.

[BanditVol]

Yes..Mullen took over a dumpster after McElwain was fired about the same time Butch was....A program that finished 4-8 like we did....BUT. Unless you believer the star gazers that said Florida had been recruiting worse than us then that's your problem...They were recruiting SEC talent and we were recruiting MAC and Big East talent at several positions like the OL.....Florida red shirted some real good offensive linemen 2 years ago and several started this season.....Florida's OL and DL is head and shoulders better than we are......Florida hiring a good head coach in Mullen that had been pretty darn good at one of the worse places in the SEC to recruit to in Starkville, MS gave them a leg up on us.....I expect Florida/Mullen to be a force in the East for years to come no matter what the Star Geezers say. Mullen took someone else's talent this year and won 9 and with a good chance at winning 10 with the bowl game....And Mullen did a very good job turning Franks into a serviceable QB.

Butch Jones all but totally destroyed our program.....from the inside out.

I think you are very right on the lines.  And it was little noticed, but Florida had a top notch DL come off of suspension against us and he tore us up.  On the OL/DL, one player can make a large difference.  Our OL/DL will both struggle again next year.

Butch did leave us stocked with some pretty good skill players, but without an OL it's like pissing in the wind.  I think our DL this year was adequate.  I think Tuttle will play on Sunday and even Phillips might have a shot, but they didn't always show up.  I think that might have to do with them not being sized right for a 3-4, but I am no expert.

[volsboy]

Yes..Mullen took over a dumpster after McElwain was fired about the same time Butch was....A program that finished 4-8 like we did....BUT. Unless you believer the star gazers that said Florida had been recruiting worse than us then that's your problem...They were recruiting SEC talent and we were recruiting MAC and Big East talent at several positions like the OL.....Florida red shirted some real good offensive linemen 2 years ago and several started this season.....Florida's OL and DL is head and shoulders better than we are......Florida hiring a good head coach in Mullen that had been pretty darn good at one of the worse places in the SEC to recruit to in Starkville, MS gave them a leg up on us.....I expect Florida/Mullen to be a force in the East for years to come no matter what the Star Geezers say. Mullen took someone else's talent this year and won 9 and with a good chance at winning 10 with the bowl game....And Mullen did a very good job turning Franks into a serviceable QB.

Butch Jones all but totally destroyed our program.....from the inside out.

That's the jist of my post. Could be dangerous hiring a coach with no head coaching experience and throwing him into a dumpster fire. I blame that on the admin. Plus, I know many won't like to hear it, but letting Fulmer anywhere close to the program will prove to be a mistake down the road. He was a divisive influence on the program the whole time after he was fired. He had a lot of sour grapes as well. Plus, he will be hesitant to fire those that need to be fired....ie Holly. Or am I totally off-base on my judgement of Phil. I did like Phil as a coach until he started mailing it in on recruiting. I hope Pruitt can assemble the team and staff he needs. I will give him a mulligan for this season. We had some surprises and many disappointments. Lets see if he can hack it.

[BanditVol]

I think you are very right on the lines.  And it was little noticed, but Florida had a top notch DL come off of suspension against us and he tore us up.  On the OL/DL, one player can make a large difference.  Our OL/DL will both struggle again next year.

Butch did leave us stocked with some pretty good skill players, but without an OL it's like pissing in the wind.  I think our DL this year was adequate.  I think Tuttle will play on Sunday and even Phillips might have a shot, but they didn't always show up.  I think that might have to do with them not being sized right for a 3-4, but I am no expert.

I'll back track a bit.  Per some NFL projection sites that I trust, the Vols have no seniors projected in the NFL draft at all.  However it's worth pointing out we only start 3-4 seniors.  Tuttle is listed as a potential free agent signee, but that's it.  I still think he might go in a late round, maybe if he has a good combine, but we will see.

Calloway likely will be drafted if he goes early, but I hope he stays.

[Jedi Master]

Agree. 

The reality is that UT is the worst program in the SEC East right now, and in the bottom tier overall. Many reasons can be pointed out, but that is what we are right now. I was laughing at some people thinking we should be able to “show up” and beat teams like Vandy. Vandy has beaten us the last 5 out of 7 games now. The national expectation right now is that Vandy is better. The national perception and reality is that they are. We as UT fans are not entitled to great football teams. The 90s were 20-25 years ago. We have not won shizzle since 1998, really.

That is the harsh truth. So how does it change? Recruiting is the key. You have to have the talent, and you really have to have a dynamic QB to affect change. You need an OL and skill players. You need great S&C. We all know this – but when you start getting labeled as a bottom dweller, it is increasingly harder to recruit. Frankly, I am surprised the class is as good as it is, but how do you keep selling “Come play here, play a lot, but get your ass beat”?

I am not a negative person – but I don’t see a good season for at least 4-5 years, and that is IF we do all of the things above. Will we as fans be patient? KY was, and they have a 9 win season. Now we did have 3 – 9 win seasons under Butch not long ago, but we did it due to having a very dynamic QB who hid a lot of our deficiencies with his legs. Once he was gone you can see what happened.

Enjoy hoops for a while- because the football team will not be very good for a little while.

Agree.  Orange (Vols) is the new Black (Vandy).  UT has trended down, not as low as your father's Vandy, but down nonetheless.  But today's Vandy is not as low as your father's Vandy either.  And that is why they have won 5 of the past 7 against UT. 

Yet, UT still has a higher ceiling than Vandy will ever have.  But the program has to get its act together to approach that ceiling.  You are correct, it all starts with recruiting.  Gotta have dudes.  Jimmies and Joes.  But you have to develop them, not just through S&C, but also through character development so that player leadership emerges.

Pruitt will bring UT back, but fan and administration have to give him time.  It's a 3 to 4 year path for UT to truly compete for the East.

[Creek Walker]

I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised throwing in a guy with no head coaching experience into the dumpster fire we have and have much better results. By comparison, Mullen inherited a 4-8 team as well, but he has them playing pretty dang well. He took over a big mess as well.

Dude, no offense but you're kinda like a broken record with the Florida obsession. You've brought up Mullen's first-year success at Florida several times, and before that it was "horse face" and Florida. Mullen hardly inherited a dumpster fire. His situation and Pruitt's situation are apples and oranges. I'm not sure Pruitt is the guy to get it done at Tennessee; actually, I have serious doubts that he can get it done. But it's unfair to compare his mess to Mullen's mess.

[Volznut]

Agree. 
Agree.  Orange (Vols) is the new Black (Vandy).  UT has trended down, not as low as your father's Vandy, but down nonetheless.  But today's Vandy is not as low as your father's Vandy either.  And that is why they have won 5 of the past 7 against UT. 

Yet, UT still has a higher ceiling than Vandy will ever have.  But the program has to get its act together to approach that ceiling.  You are correct, it all starts with recruiting.  Gotta have dudes.  Jimmies and Joes.  But you have to develop them, not just through S&C, but also through character development so that player leadership emerges.

Pruitt will bring UT back, but fan and administration have to give him time.  It's a 3 to 4 year path for UT to truly compete for the East.

I hope Pruitt does bring us back. Year 2 will tell us a lot in terms of trends