Vols fifth in the East per the SEC media

[ReVOLver]

Behind UGa, SC, UF, and Mizzou (though I'm not sure of the exact order and I'm too lazy to look it up.)

If I'm Dooley, I have a sign hung in the locker room that says "5ITE" in huge letters.

[Clockwork Orange]

Behind UGa, SC, UF, and Mizzou (though I'm not sure of the exact order and I'm too lazy to look it up.)

If I'm Dooley, I have a sign hung in the locker room that says "5ITE" in huge letters.

I think that's where we'll be if we don't take a noticeable step forward . . . as in the guys are a year older but nothing particularly different happens. Personally I'm expecting that step forward, and I think if that happens we will end up in the neighborhood of 3rd in the East.

"5ITE." I would indeed hope that would be motivating. This is what they think of us. Is that who you think we are?

[ReVOLver]

I think that's where we'll be if we don't take a noticeable step forward . . . as in the guys are a year older but nothing particularly different happens. Personally I'm expecting that step forward, and I think if that happens we will end up in the neighborhood of 3rd in the East.

"5ITE." I would indeed hope that would be motivating. This is what they think of us. Is that who you think we are?

Personally, I think the East is down and they SHOULD be right in the thick of it in year three of Dooley's tenure. I'm not confident that they will be but I will be disappointed if they aren't. Third is my floor, not my ceiling, when it comes to expectations.

Lately on other boards (maybe here from some) I see a growing sentiment to try to explain why a 9 or better win season puts the expectations too high. To that I say: fizzle that noise. Either get back to being Tennessee or GTFO.

[Clockwork Orange]

Personally, I think the East is down and they SHOULD be right in the thick of it in year three of Dooley's tenure. I'm not confident that they will be but I will be disappointed if they aren't. Third is my floor, not my ceiling, when it comes to expectations.

Lately on other boards (maybe here from some) I see a growing sentiment to try to explain why a 9 or better win season puts the expectations too high. To that I say: fizzle that noise. Either get back to being Tennessee or GTFO.

It's easy to be torn between two schools of thought. The one where you are-- and I am-- says that with the roster improvement, with the influx of young talent, with the returning experience, and with the expectations we should all have for a Tennessee coach in his third year, there's no reason to expect less than 9 wins.

The other school of thought says look at where we were the last two years, look at our schedule, and find me 9 wins. It's hard to find 9 when you start with that premise.

But an expectation of 9 wins is not the least bit out of line. I said months ago that I would be disappointed with less than 9 wins but that 8 probably gives Dooley a 4th year. I still think that's where we are, and if anything my thinking over the months has been that 9 wins are more likely. Is our roster 5th in the East? No way. At worst it's 4th in the East, and it's arguable whether our talent level really trails the leaders in our division anymore except from the standpoint of depth.

[ReVOLver]

It's easy to be torn between two schools of thought. The one where you are-- and I am-- says that with the roster improvement, with the influx of young talent, with the returning experience, and with the expectations we should all have for a Tennessee coach in his third year, there's no reason to expect less than 9 wins.

The other school of thought says look at where we were the last two years, look at our schedule, and find me 9 wins. It's hard to find 9 when you start with that premise.

But an expectation of 9 wins is not the least bit out of line. I said months ago that I would be disappointed with less than 9 wins but that 8 probably gives Dooley a 4th year. I still think that's where we are, and if anything my thinking over the months has been that 9 wins are more likely. Is our roster 5th in the East? No way. At worst it's 4th in the East, and it's arguable whether our talent level really trails the leaders in our division anymore except from the standpoint of depth.

9 wins: NC State, Georgia State, Akron, Troy, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State, and then one of the remaining four.

To look at NC State, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Mississippi State and think we lose any of those games is to admit that we don't have the right staff in place after three years. It takes five years to compete with an Alabama, a Florida, a Georgia, maybe even a South Carolina from a talent perspective... Tennessee should beat all those teams I listed after three years of staff continuity. (Edit... three years of a head coach. Staff turnover is no excuse when the head coach is in place.)

[Clockwork Orange]

9 wins: NC State, Georgia State, Akron, Troy, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State, and then one of the remaining four.

To look at NC State, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Mississippi State and think we lose any of those games is to admit that we don't have the right staff in place after three years. It takes five years to compete with an Alabama, a Florida, a Georgia, maybe even a South Carolina from a talent perspective... Tennessee should beat all those teams I listed after three years of staff continuity. (Edit... three years of a head coach. Staff turnover is no excuse when the head coach is in place.)

I'm with you on this, but imagine you lived in a vacuum where you didn't know what UT's expectations should be in a historical context. We beat two bowl teams last year and won just 5 games. Your list of 9 wins includes 5 wins over bowl teams. It's possible to look at that and think those expectations are too high, and I think it's from that viewpoint that you hear people saying 9 wins would be too much.

Of course none of us live in this vacuum and we understand the context. We know that Vanderbilt, Missouri, Mississippi State, and NC State are below us in terms of talent on the roster, and that historically we have probably split games with the other four (SC, UGA, UF, Bama). If that doesn't translate to 9 or 10 wins, then there is a disconnect and it's probably coaching.

[ReVOLver]

I'm with you on this, but imagine you lived in a vacuum where you didn't know what UT's expectations should be in a historical context. We beat two bowl teams last year and won just 5 games. Your list of 9 wins includes 5 wins over bowl teams. It's possible to look at that and think those expectations are too high, and I think it's from that viewpoint that you hear people saying 9 wins would be too much.

Of course none of us live in this vacuum and we understand the context. We know that Vanderbilt, Missouri, Mississippi State, and NC State are below us in terms of talent on the roster, and that historically we have probably split games with the other four (SC, UGA, UF, Bama). If that doesn't translate to 9 or 10 wins, then there is a disconnect and it's probably coaching.

I'm the first one to admit that I can't put myself in that vacuum.

[Volznut]

It is what I expected. Media always seems to go by last year's results and don't really look at potential. In fact it would not have surprised me had they picked us behind vandy. we finished last in 2011.

That being said, it doesn't matter where we are picked in preseason, just shows lack of respect, which we have to earn. It's why they play the game.

[PirateVOL]

9 wins: NC State, Georgia State, Akron, Troy, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi State, and then one of the remaining four.

To look at NC State, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Mississippi State and think we lose any of those games is to admit that we don't have the right staff in place after three years. It takes five years to compete with an Alabama, a Florida, a Georgia, maybe even a South Carolina from a talent perspective... Tennessee should beat all those teams I listed after three years of staff continuity. (Edit... three years of a head coach. Staff turnover is no excuse when the head coach is in place.)

The 9th should be the crocs

[eVOLved]

Personally, I think the East is down and they SHOULD be right in the thick of it in year three of Dooley's tenure. I'm not confident that they will be but I will be disappointed if they aren't. Third is my floor, not my ceiling, when it comes to expectations.

Lately on other boards (maybe here from some) I see a growing sentiment to try to explain why a 9 or better win season puts the expectations too high. To that I say: fizzle that noise. Either get back to being Tennessee or GTFO.

    Well Said!   

[BanditVol]

One thing you're leaving out is whether the nine includes a bowl game or not.  That's actually a pretty big difference.

My expectations are for 8 wins, and I think that's acceptable.

That is not to say what my expectations SHOULD be, that's just what they are, and it's based largely on last year and doubts in our coaching staff.  As I point out below somewhere, Phil Steele rates our coaching staff just barely above our running game based on past experience out of 10 different units on the team and I think that speaks volumes.

Other bits and pieces...I agree 100% with Pirate that Florida would be 9.

While HISTORICALLY NC State and Mizzou are below us, looking at where they are now and where we are, I would not necessarily expect to beat them.   NC State was only 8-5 last year in the ACC, but they closed very strong, while Mizzou has been to 6 consecutive bowls and averaged exactly nine wins a season in that stretch.  Both teams have well-regarded senior QBs as well.

So while I actually expect to beat both of them, I would not be surpised to split or even drop both.

And finally...Revolver I think you are probably making a comment on the coaching staff more than anything, and if so, I accept that.

But at the end of the day, I think an average to above average staff would win 8 games, while an outstanding staff might win 10 .

I guess we win 7 or less it will speak for itself.

E

[ReVOLver]

One thing you're leaving out is whether the nine includes a bowl game or not.  That's actually a pretty big difference.

My expectations are for 8 wins, and I think that's acceptable.

That is not to say what my expectations SHOULD be, that's just what they are, and it's based largely on last year and doubts in our coaching staff.  As I point out below somewhere, Phil Steele rates our coaching staff just barely above our running game based on past experience out of 10 different units on the team and I think that speaks volumes.

Other bits and pieces...I agree 100% with Pirate that Florida would be 9.

While HISTORICALLY NC State and Mizzou are below us, looking at where they are now and where we are, I would not necessarily expect to beat them.   NC State was only 8-5 last year in the ACC, but they closed very strong, while Mizzou has been to 6 consecutive bowls and averaged exactly nine wins a season in that stretch.  Both teams have well-regarded senior QBs as well.

So while I actually expect to beat both of them, I would not be surpised to split or even drop both.

And finally...Revolver I think you are probably making a comment on the coaching staff more than anything, and if so, I accept that.

But at the end of the day, I think an average to above average staff would win 8 games, while an outstanding staff might win 10 .

I guess we win 7 or less it will speak for itself.

E

9 including the bowl game would acceptable to me.

Part of the problem with fan complacency is people accepting that programs that SHOULD be below us AREN'T. Not saying that this is what you are doing in this post, but I hear a lot of "But look how bad we've been" stuff from my friends on Facebook and then on other boards. I don't care about that. My theme is that UT needs to get back to being UT.

[BigOrange Maniac]

This just in: SEC media picks basketball Vols to finish 11th in SEC.

[PirateVOL]

This just in: SEC media picks basketball Vols to finish 11th in SEC.

[ReVOLver]

This just in: SEC media picks basketball Vols to finish 11th in SEC.

No freakin' way. Tell me you are being sarcastic.

[BigOrange Maniac]

No freakin' way. Tell me you are being sarcastic.

Just a flashback to last year. We all know how that turned out.