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and he was one. Good grief why?

I'm with you.    :confused:

Okay, he's SEC and he's taken them to an improved position. Tejas is RICH with recruits. But, is he really better than Mack Brown?

I'm not jumpin' on that boat.


G

If I were an AD, I'd give him a good, hard look.

He's a heck of a coach. The only hesitation I would have is his questionable character. But as far as winning football games...yes.

Bullshizzle.....Franklin has benefitted by the fact that the East has been a shadow of its robust self in the 90s and 00s.  First of all since Franklin has come into the league UF, UGA, and UT have all been horrid this past year.  Franklin and Vandy have not had to play Bama and LSU at all in his first three years, and his OOC schedule has been basically "here are four wins hope you dont screw the pooch with them" games.  So basically all Franklin has had to do the last two years is win two more games and his lackluster record is all the more gaudy to some, but when you ask an analyst about him they hem and haw and go "why is he being considered"

Overall Franklin may be a great smoke and mirrors coach, but his record against quality competition is absymal!!!!

I mostly agree....but he did coach well against us this year, unfortunately.  We still out-talent Vandy by a wide margin, and really should have won that game.

I saw four candidates this evening at half of one of the bowls.  Franklin, Jimbo Fisher, Charlie Strong and Art Briles of Baylor.

I think we can rule out Fisher, and I don't think Franklin is a serious option (I do think he's a decent coach, but should not be a candidate for a big time program IMO).   

So I think it will be Briles or Strong.  OTOH, Strong may well turn down Texas.  He has a huge buyout and got a large raise last year, and some think he will only leave for Florida...which likely will be an option next year.  So Briles seems most likely.

If for some reason Briles refuses it, Franklin may just get it.  If so, good riddance.   

I have to disagree....We trailed Vandy by a little in a couple of areas in talent.  But overall UT and Vandy were just about even in talent.  But with the brutal schedule we basically got the beatdown and still managed ot win 5 games.  We lost to teams that were in the top 10 in the nation this year, and came withiun a gnat's fumble whisker of being 6-6 by beating UGA.  Vandy was just lucky enough to meet UGA a coouple of weeks after we did and by then their offense was a shell of itself.  Their first and second options in the wideout are gone and both of their big backs are on the shelf so UGA is playing with two freshmen against Vandy.  By the time Vandy played UF, UF was basically playing with a lame legged QB and half their defense was sitting in the jacuzzi.

If Vandy playes Bama, Bama makes them look just as silly as we did during the massacre.  But we will be back....Vandy is at the apex and will be falling back to earth!!!!!!!

I dislike Franklin and Vandy as much as any other UT fan.  He's an arrogant asshat. 

That said, he's an arrogant asshat who is a hell of a football coach.  I don't care how down the SEC East may be, to take a Vanderbilt football program that has won nothing in the modern day of SEC football to a 9 win season last year and another possible 9 win season this year is an incredible coaching job.  For Vandy to win 9 games, coming from where they have been and even if they were all against the Little Sisters of the Poor, is a story that most who follow college football would have never believed possible. For years they lost to the LSofP, and everybody else they played, too.

As I said, he's an asshat.  The rape scandal is inexcusable, but what Franklin has done from a recruiting standpoint and as an X's and O's coach is impressive and not hard to see if one takes off his/her orange colored glasses. 

 

Cosign.

He is in fact a heck of a coach, but I still think Texas would or should prefer Briles. If what Franklin did at Vandy is impressive, well Baylor is not a much better situation.  In fact, Baylor is kind of the "Vandy of the big 12".  Granted, Texas is easier to recruit in, but Baylor was/is a top 10 team this year with one loss and the Big 12 champion.  And even if the rest of the Big 12 is down, so is the SEC East as Emeril points out.

So he is a good coach, but unfortunately he will be around a while longer.  That's good, because we owe him at least two ass beatings.   OTOH, if Briles turns down the fake UT, good riddance.  Vandy will return to irrlelevance and that has to be a good thing.   :naughty:

Yup.

Please expound.

He will be a target at Penn State too if O'Brien leaves.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/12/james_franklin_is_prime_target.html

Btw, for anyone who saw his statements yesterday, Franklin is refusing to commit to Vandy. He's clearly willing to entertain offers. (And who wouldn't, in his shoes?) Should be a few interesting days ahead...

Yeah, I'm not advocating for Franklin to get the Texas job, and in fact I'm not sure he would be a good fit there.  Texas is one of those jobs where it has to be the right personality.  Mack Brown just never was the right personality.

One more thing to add on Franklin at Vandy - he's only in his 3rd year there.  It's not like he's had the 4-5 recruiting classes to make the program all "his own".  He's been able to take lower rated recruiting classes that came before him, done a good job in raising the bar in recruiting (with some help from more academic exceptions from the Vandy admissions folks), and he has coached up his players.  I honestly don't see how one could look at where the Vandy program was before him and then looked at it objectively now and not come to the conclusion that he is an outstanding football coach.  

Again, agreed.  Briles seems like he'd be a great fit at Texas... could they lure him you think?

1) I think Franklin's done a great job at Vandy, and would be wise to cash in.
2) Briles may be viewed as too old by some powers-that-be. It wouldn't matter to me, and it may not to them.
3) I still think Gary Patterson could do a great job there. He's just become a small fish is a larger pond, and might welcome the chance to jump. I'd call him right after Charlie Strong - or possibly before.

I just don't see Briles leaving Baylor at this point.  It will be interesting to see the shuffle.

Texas has more money than most nations in the world do.  If they want Briles they can make it happen.  He's obviously done a great job at Baylor, but he'll never play for, much less win a national championship there.  He can win a national championship at Texas.  

Agree. It's actually laughable how some on this board refuse to give him credit  because 1.) he coaches a hated rival and B.) he's a grade-A douchenozzle. Be that as it may, he's accomplished beating us two years in a row, which Vandy hadn't done since 1925-26. Also laughable is the notion that we have so much more talent than Vandy. At this point we don't have so much more talent than anybody but the very bottom feeders of the BCS conferences. And Vandy this season had 2 QBs with experience who they could trust to play pretty well. We OTOH couldn't even muster one.

I said he was a good coach...no one can deny that.   I am not going to call him "outstanding" just yet though....scratch that, I never will just because he's such an asshat.   :dielaughing:   Unless by some chance he becomes the Vol coach, of course. 

There is something to what Emeril says though.  This is literally the worst UF team since 1978, Uga had injuries all year long, and, well, we all unfortunately know where Tennessee is right now.   The fact that Missouri and USC competed for the East this year speaks volumes.   

If the East was as strong as it used to be, Vandy would probably be sneaking in with a 6-6 record at best.  But it would still be pretty impressive, I guess.

But here is a thought...as impressive as Franklin has been I am just as impressed with Cutcliffe at Duke.   Duke was, believe it or not, worse than Vandy.  In fact, there were a few years that Duke was about the only team Vandy could count on beating.

So is Cutcliffe an "outstanding coach" ?   :naughty:

Yes, he is.  Asking the Manning family and UT fans how outstanding he is.  When UT had him as the OC the UT offenses were prolific.  When UT didn't have him as the OC the offenses were either adequate or below adequate. 

Not every outstanding coach makes an equally outstanding head coach, however.

And this wasn't a comparison between Franklin and Cut.  Two different coaches in different stages of their careers at two different schools in totally different conferences.  That's an apples and bananas comparison.

All you say about the SEC East is true, but the bottom line is that Franklin's Vandy teams beat those "down" teams.  Past Vandy teams would have still lost to those teams and more.  No matter what spin one puts on it, Franklin has brought Vandy up to the next level (I said next, not top) in a very short period of time.  The guy is a hell of a football coach.   

Really?  What objective measure would you base that on?

Here are the last four Rivals ratings for Vandy: 19, 29, 71, 61 (average of 45)

Here are the Rivals last four ratings for Tennessee: 21, 17, 13, 9 (average of 15)

Yeah, I know, recruiting rankings are not perfect, but that's a huge discrepancy.

What about NFL draft choices? 

Here are the last three years including this year's projections for Vandy:  2 (2012), 2 (2013) , 4 (2014 projected)

And Tennessee:  1 (2012), 4 (2013), 6-7 (projected 2014, depending on what AJ decides)

I have to admit, Vandy having 4 this year is impressive, but overall in the last three years (factoring in that this year is only projected), we have put or will put 16-17 players in the NFL (not including undrafted free agents like Bray and even, lol, Simms) while Vandy will put 10.  That's still a pretty big difference IYAM.

You do hit on a couple of keys. Vandy's talent has been playing together three years with a good coach and learning how to win, while ours was getting mind fizzleed by Dooley.  And yes, QB is a key position and they had plenty of experience and us none.

But it's hardly "laughable" to say Tennessee is still more talented than Vandy.  You can look at the last two years of recruiting under Franklin and say they are certainly catching up, but Butch is taking care of that.   :biggrin:

Your argument is just further proof that he has done a great job at a school that hasn't won many games since the modern era of college football began with less talent than a lot of the teams he beat.  Using your argument he took lesser talent and coached it up and beat teams who had recruited better players on paper.  

Anyway one spins he he has done a great coaching job at Vanderbilt - let me repeat that, it's Vanderbilt - in a short period of time.  9 wins in year two, and 8 in year three with one left to play speaks for its self.

And I repeat - I can't stand the rat bastard, but that doesn't mean I don't give the devil his due.  

Interesting story on Briles' interest in the Texas job:

http://www.burntorangenation.com/2014/1/1/5264614/art-briles-texas-longhorns-interview-baylor-bears-charlie-strong

"While such a meeting has not yet taken place with Briles focused on the first BCS appearance in school history for Baylor, a source told the Statesman that he would be willing to talk. Two other sources indicated that Briles would take the job if offered."

Penn State.

Right now Texas should consider George O'Leary.....UCF looking pretty good.

Franklin is being considered for the Browns job so I'm reading.

I agree...he has coached up the talent.  I never said he wasn't a good coach, he is.  You might have me confused with Emeril.

I do shade a bit towards "good coach" vs. "great coach" due to the fact that the East is down right now, but that's just a nit. 

If he takes the job at Penn State or anywhere else (Texas seems a long shot, but he might be the "safety choice" if Briles turns it down) then IMO we'll know more about what kind of coach he is. I have no doubt he can go to a big time school and win 8-9 games a year like he is at Vandy, but can he take it to the next level?  I suspect we will find out eventually.

I've heard Malzahn's name being mentioned there, too.  But wow, I don't see Franklin as an NFL coach at all.

Maybe just because the owner is a Tennessean and is very aware of Franklin.

Hey, it would help ole UT.... :naughty:

First of all I do NOT wear ORANGE glasses.  Second Bandit I said I think he is overrated when people say he is a great coach.  He has won games against lower level of talent sure but he has beaten ONE and only one team with a winning record in THREE years.  That means he has his teams ready to play so it means he is doing his job.  So what if it is at Vandy or any other school, he is (along with the loosened admission requirements from Vandy enabling him to recruit some players that Vandy had not previously recruited - I have friends that work over at Vandy and have complained that Vandy is lowering standards to admit some of the players) a coach that has won games that any college coach should have won.  Also if you analyze the OOC schedule the last few years you will see that the Strength of Schedule is abysmal in regards to the other schools in the conference.  So he can win playing Wake Forest, UMass, Autin Peay, etc etc etc.  Could he have beaten Oregon?  (HELL NO it would have been as bad as we were skunked).  Franklin is not a great coach, but he has won some games and overall I would so far say the jury is still out on the Bald Headed West Ender until he competes with the big boys while at Vandy.  But iot does not look like this will happen since he is NOT going to stick around at Vandy.  I guess the administrations refusal to even think about a New Dudley Field or actually FILLING up a stadium when they are playing is the straw that broke the Franklin's back!!!

Finally Herb just because I disagree with you is no reason to say I am wearing Orange Colored glasses.  I frankly have a very logical viewpoint in looking at Franklin that includes analysis of the records and looking at the compilation of the wins and loses.  Franklin has done some good things but that does not make him a great/good  coach.  He has recruited against and won some players from the most god awful coach in UT history aka Fooley Dooley and he moved into a power vacuum within the state in the Kiffin debacle.  As I have said before the biggest mistake that was ever made was hiring a person that was not an athlete as the AD at UT.  He did not understand the "team" mentality and was the puppet of the guys with the dollars that he saw as the "heart" of UT's atheltic efforts.  Franklin was at the apex of the "perfect storm" in the state and it enabled Vandy to get some recruits.  Now with Butch Jones in the mix Franklin is getting to Twitter about Vandy losing recruits to UT not the other way around.   If Franklin sticks around (highly doubtful) we will see at his next stop whether or not he is a great coach if he can take things to the next level or if he is a flash in the pan. 

This
Franklin is pushing his name all over the place
Two reasons in my view:
He knows he has reached his pinnical at candy and is getting out while he can
He knows Butch is winning the in state battle in recruiting, and will continue to do so (see #1)

Sorry, Emeril.  I just don't see how one can discount what Franklin has done at Vandy.  I repeat at VANDY.  Blaming Dooley has nothing to do with the reality of what he has done there.  Yep, Dooley gave him an opening, but he not only opened that door, he kicked it in. 

Anyway you try to justify it, that's looking through orange colored glasses. 

I can't stand him personally, but he has won games where no coach has been able to win games before, down SEC East or no.  Credit where credit is due. 

The way I look at it is that back in the day, Woody Widenhofer won some games at Vandy, but just could not get them over the hump.  Of course, this was when Tennessee and Florida were two of the dominant teams in the country, let alone the SEC, and Georgia was pretty good when not playing those two.  So Woody could occasionally beat USC and Kentucky, but that was about it. And this was the era of 11 games, so winning 3 OOC games and at most 2 SEC games wasn't going to get a bowl bid.  I think he might have snuck into one bowl at 6-5, I'm not sure.

Anyway, Franklin might just be like Woody with the East down a bit.  Let me put it this way....while I acknowledge Franklin is good, it takes some unusual circumstances on top of that for Vandy to beat Uga, UT and UF all in the same year.  Like all three of those programs having off years together, which almost never happens. 

But whatever...he's a  good coach.  I still think Cut is just as good or better though.   :naughty: