VTTW Board Index

them comfortably. Their defense is good. But, we are better offensively. It will come down to our OL play, as usual. If UF 's DL can dominate our OL, it won't be easy for Dobbs to operate.. I'm not sure about UF's depth, but I hope ours is better.

I think so also.  Haven't had to time to seriously guess at a score, but I'm going to say 27-17 off the top of my head.  I will change that if I get time to actually research it a bit.

Frightenly, I gave a co-worker the same score Bandit called. We're a better team.

Coach Speak says that this is "just another game", but this is more than just another game.  He really needs to win this one to calm the nerves of the entire fan base. 

Hopefully Butch IS looking at this just as another game. He certainly seems to go into a shell for the big games.

It's a must win. If he'd beaten UF one of the previous two years, or taken down OU, it wouldn't be. Arkansas is the same.

Agree with must win.  Biggest game in Jones' Tennessee career by far (based on fan expectations).  He has to win this game.

if we lose we should fire Butch and once again initiate a coaching search???   :confused:   Realistically we are about 50/50 IMO to win or lose, we are pretty evenly matched. IMO many need to realize that Dobbs is not a championship caliber QB and we lack championship level depth and most positions (especially OL)....we are vastly improved from 3 yrs ago, but we aren't where the type of expectations many have are realistic. I will surely be rooting for the Big Orange and will be sorely disappointed should we lose, but the worst thing we could do is begin calling for Butch's head and derail what he has begun only to potentially end up with another Kiffin or Dooley.                  :patriot:

Dear Lord I hope the team isn't listening to all of this. Every SEC game is important. Some are "bigger" than others because of streaks and/or rivalries or if they're in the Eastern Division or if your neighbor is a fan of that opponent, but they all count as one win or one loss. Yes, we "need" to beat Florida and Bama and Georgia just to end the misery and to prove we're in the upper end of this conference. But I hope that Butch and the team aren't thinking about all of this.

Majors did it with Bama and Fulmer did it with Florida and life was miserable for them and us against those teams.

Just play and win the damn game.

So you are saying pretend it doesn't matter. Sorry, but it does and they can't pretend otherwise. I hope the team realizes it.

game matters, but I was addressing the "must win" designation as if we must replace Butch if he doesn't win the "must win" game.    :patriot:

Agree...next year will be different, but from mid-2013 I have felt this is a four year project, period, dot.  It still is.  And again, for the thousandth time, if Dooley had not left the cupboard so bare on both recruiting AND development, I would expect more this year.  Butch gets an extra year due to the size of the hole we were in.  Two good recruiting classes is a great start but historically improvements come in the third year of good recruiting.

A game is a game to me.  The florida game still has huge significance to a wide part of our fanbase, because when we were good it was the measuring stick every year.  But I have not cared much about it since things went south in 2008.  That was the last year I was heavily invested in us winning, although I did have hopes for 2012.

The game has gone through several phases.  in the early days of the expended league, we traded home blowouts (90-93). 

Then SOS managed a four year run (94-97) with most of those losses leaving Vol fans shaking their collective heads - and I think it was this four year stretch that set the tone for everything else because Peyton was at UT all four of those years.

Then Phil pulled even and even could be argued to have passed SOS (1998-2001).  Actually this left Vol fans shaking their heads again, because we SHOULD have by all rights been 4-0 in that stretch instead of 2-2.

Then the Zook years where we WERE ahead (2002-2004), butthis should have been 3-0 instead of 2-1.  Of all the frustrating gator games, 2002 was the worst effort.  At least we opened 95 with a big lead, came back to make it respectable in 96, and had a bad team in 94.  No excuse for losing in 2002!  As much as I love Clausen, he couldn't hold on to the ball to save his life and probably should have been benched for at least a series or two.

Then the Urban years, which started with even talent but we never did beat that POS.  We still owe him for the classless run-up and comments in 2008, to say nothing of the 7 straight losses.  The only year I felt we should have won was 2006, but if we would have had a decent QB in 2008 I would have expected a win then also. 

Then the Muschamp years...in every year we had a shot due to him sucking so hard, but some years more than others.  We had bad luck in this stretch also....mostly in 2011 when Hunter was injured early.   Having said that, the only one I thought we SHOULD have won was last year, and it was close to a coin toss anyway due to our OL.

I would really back up to 2009 and include the last two years under Corch Meyer as the starting point where, through last year, I really CGAS about this game.  With us sucking under Dooley, it wasn't even worth worrying about.  Odds are we are going to lose, and with the exception of 2012 the game meant nothing nationally. 

So in conclusion, I really don't think it's as big a deal as most.  It's one of three remaining SEC games (along with Ark and Mizzou) that we should win but are not IMO heavy favorites.   I kind of expect us to go 2-1 in those 3, and I do prefer this not be the 1 but mostly because it's the first one and not because it's the gators.

I do recognize that beating the gators will energize our fanbase, but that's a bonus to me.

This is as close to a must-win game for Butch Jones as any single game can get. Where some UT fans seem to fail to make a distinction is this: Butch Jones won't be fired if he loses the Florida game (obviously), and those who criticize him won't be criticizing him for losing a single game. It's the cumulative effect. In fact, if Butch had beaten Florida last year or Oklahoma this year, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Does it take more than three years to rebuild a program from ashes? Of course it does. That's why no Tennessee fan -- no sensible one, anyway -- is saying that Jones should win the SEC this year. You won't hear anyone saying he should be fired even if he fails to win a divisional championship. But this isn't about winning championships in year three. This is about just OCCASIONALLY beating a team you should be able to beat. If Tennessee loses to Florida, Jones will be 0-4 in 50/50 games over a three-year period. Take a washed-up coach who is about to turn himself out to pasture out of the equation and Jones will not have one a single game of significance in a 3-year period. I'll bet you that no one can find another coach who posted a similar record during their first three seasons at a major school and then went on to have significant success at that school...not in this modern era of college football, anyway. When you lose a game like Vandy '13, it doesn't mean a whole lot. When you lose games like Vandy '13 and Florida '14 with no significant wins to offset them, eyebrows are raised. When you lose games like Vandy '13, Florida '14, Oklahoma '15 and Florida '15 with no wins in 50/50 games in between, red flags start to pop all over the place.

And let's face it: If Tennessee doesn't beat Florida on Saturday, does anyone think this team will beat Arkansas, much less Georgia or Alabama? And if Tennessee heads into late October with a record of 2-5, you better believe that Butch Jones' seat is going to be a bit heated.

No, Butch Jones isn't going to be fired if he loses to Florida. And he isn't going to be feeling heat from fans JUST because he lost to Florida. But if I were a betting man, I'd put money on this: If Butch Jones doesn't win tomorrow, he won't be here in 2017.

The big difference between Vol  football now and the Fulmer years is that now we are just looking to beat a team we shouldn't beat. During the Fulmer years, you could usually look at the schedule and not find anyone on it we should lose to. That is what we need to get back to. It ain't happening this year though. Plus the OU game made me pessimistic about his on field coaching prowess. 2016 will be a tough one for Jones pressure wise. He will be expected to win big. It is time to quit all his cute little gimmicks and catchy phrases. Brick by brick. I really hope he don't end up shooting bricks. If he keeps his great recruiting going, he could just out-talent a bunch of teams. I think that's what the Fulmer/Chavis combo did to a degree.

Freeze has done it at Ole Miss in pretty short order......Franklin did it pretty darn well at FOOKING Vandy and beat some teams we haven't and he did it in year 2 and 3.

Expecting Butch to do the same isn't asking too much IMO. Time to shut up and put up, IMO.

I love footbaw fans. Fighting for the right to brag. James Franklin ABSOLUTELY did better because UT was down, probably same for Freeze to lesser extent. I think UT will win Saturday, but it won't be easy, and SHOULD be played/called fairly conservatively. Read my lips, we DO NOT want to be slinging it around the yard this year. Our D is stronger than their O. Our O is weak where their D is strong. UT may have an advantage at punter. PK? Not so sure. It will be played, and SHOULD be, close to the vest. UT has two defensive players they didn't have against OU,  McNeil, and  the DT. UT is a top 10 program, historically. We are on track.

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Even if we lose, I don't think any but the most "alabamaish" of fans would be calling for Butch's head.  Butch is doing the right thing, and going in the right direction.  But, given last year's meltdown against UF, the Oklahoma meltdown, and numerous lackluster showings, Butch has to win some 50/50 games to keep fan base enthusiasm, and I think even the most realistic of the fan base has reached the expectation that the time is now.  I think we are now at a talent level that puts us on the plus side of 50/50 vs UF.  If we lose because UF just flat beat us, hey, it happens.   But I will be bitterly disappointed if we lose in the same fashion as UF last year or Oklahoma. 

We may actually be on the same page.

1) No one is calling for Jones' head.
2) Most are expecting progress as evidenced by wins. Our schedule isn't easy, but isn't brutal.
3) Had Butch won some toss-ups earlier, he'd have more leeway now.

Hopefully we prevail. There's no house money now.

After losing to UF 10 years in a row..Yes Jones better embrace the fact that he was hired,not to just recruit well but to BEAT Florida and stomp their eggs and had better coach to WIN this game after pissing the game away against them last year..Is time to start WINNING these kind of games..Dobbs is light years ahead of any qb UF will field on Saturday..Period! Is time to get that monkey off their back and anything less than a victory in the swamp is unacceptable imo

While I don't know of anybody calling for Jones' head if he loses, he certainly will spend a lot of equity if he doesn't win this game. 

Who's fighting for the right to brag? Asking the U of Tennessee to do something that Freeze has done at OM and Franklin did at Vandy isn't too much to ask. They both did more in less time than Butch has done so far. Nothing was said about them beating UT. I'd say Freeze beating Bama 2 years in arrow is pretty darn good since we havn't sniffed a win against Bama in 8 years.

UT fans just keep making excuse....They bought in to the Butchisms

^This. Yet a lot of fans will buy into the excuses.

Right.  Frieze was 9-4 last year at Ole Miss, a record very much still in our reach, and started from a better place talent wise.  So we are there.

Yes, it depends on how the rest of the season plays out, but I expect a minimum of 8 wins regardless of what happens Saturday.

For the record, I do think Saturday is a win.  It should be.  If the team comes out laid back and plays to win, no worries.

You are leaving out some important tidbits. 

First, SOS wasn't a coach on the way out when we beat them in 2012.  They were ranked in the top 10.  That's a legit big win whether USC jr has the brand name recognition of uga/uf/bammer or not.

Second, if you going to include vandy 2013 then you need to include vandy 2014.  Yes, Franklin was gone in 2014 but it was largely the same team and they got up for our game, which is what vandy has always done.  Both games were also played for bowl eligibility and we won the second one, which at least is moving in the right direction.

Third, USC jr was a 50-50 game last year.  They were about at our same level last year, way down from 2013 but by far still good enough to give us a game.  And our team showed enormous balls coming back to win that one.

There are question marks about Jones, for sure, but he has done better than some give him credit for.

He still has a Dooleyesque overall record. He has not proven his on field coaching chops. He will get a pass from most this season. He will not next year.

I get impatient with people who compare his record to Dooley's for two reasons.  One, he started with Dooley's team and we are barely into the third year.   When you go from a hill to a valley and have to start over, you start in the valley!  Two, and closely related, the hill is UP, and Butch's trajectory is UP.  Dooley went from having a team that managed to eek out a bowl invitation (which he choked away) and go 3-5 in the SEC, to back to back records of 1-7 in the SEC, a loss to a pitiful Kentucky team that cost us a bowl bid, and the squandering of enormous offensive talent in 2012.  By contrast our team looks much, much better than it did two years ago.  It's night and day really.  At NO POINT in Dooley's career - with the exception of our offense in 2012 - did I ever think he improved anything.  And I think Chaney and the overwhelming talent we had get more credit for 2012 than Dooley.  Under Butch I have seen improvement on an almost game by game basis, this year and last.  2013?  Not so much, but a the end of the year they were better than 2012, awesome offense or not.  We got blown out by Vandy in 2012 but almost beat one of their historically best teams in 2013.

Look at it this way...in season one, Butch did about as well as Dooley in his last season, but with a much less experienced team on offense (QB, WR) but the team still played better (arguably much better) in November.  In 2014, Butch matched Dooley's best year of 2010 (with lots worse talent) but actually won the bowl game.  So we (sad but true) are better right now than at any point since 2009, and I think by the end of the year, with 8 wins, we surpass 2009.  We can then think about a 2007-like (or better!) season.