VTTW Board Index

Mississippi State folks. Pathetic.

Nope,Need to find another Coach. I'd be jumping for joy if Charlie Strong was named UT coach in December

Cosign.

No more excuses but even worse...... there is no more hope.

I was on the no hope train four weeks ago.

I want somebody to make the case to me why we should stick with what we have. After all some were so full of optimism after giving up 51 to UGa.

Poor execution, Poor discipline, we just found another way to lose.
MSU was not better or more talented than the VOLS  :wtf:

 :powert:

I'm with you boss (well, almost former boss now!  WOO!)  :loco:

I stick with my mandate to get to 8-4. After UF I thought the odds were slim, and it continues to look that way. I appreciate what Dooley has done, but if we can't get there a change must be made. As I've said a number of times I don't expect us to beat "x" team, but getting to 8-4 requires the defeat of at least one quality opponent. Which one it is I don't care.  

Paging BanditVol to the thread.

I'm also waiting.

In the first half, I said to BTV that none of the Vols' three top coaches -- Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, and Defensive Coordinator -- are good enough for the SEC.  I like Dooley and wanted very much for him to succeed, but I just don't see it.  I hate that another coaching change is on the horizon, but I also don't think there is much choice absent some amazing turnaround in the second half of the season.  Great, a probable coaching change during the board transition!  My timing is as bad as the Vols defense.   :wink:

Nah,not that bad! :laugh:

Can you add a plane tracker app to the board? :biggrin:

Calling me out by name eh?

"Full of optimism" is a gross exaggeration.   I was optimistic we could beat MSU and win out in November and also have a good recruiting season.

I also see huge improvement from last year's team.  This year we have been on the field with three ranked teams, two of them (at the time or later) top 10 teams, and everyone thinks we had a shot to win or should have.  Anyone disagree?  This is what a lot of you have been complaining about.

Last year we got blown out 37-6, 41-6, and 42-7 by top ranked teams, and no one in their right mind thought we had a shot at winning any of those games.

As bad as we are, or seem to be this year, the team is significantly improved.

Now the counter will be "so what, you have to win the games".

I don't disagree with that. However my fear is that with a coaching change, we might not be talking about even getting close to ranked teams for a long, long time.

Setting that aside, our offense is pretty damn good.  The problem is on the defensive side of the ball.

You know what?  Maybe a coaching change will solve that.  I know what to do.  Let's completely run off or fire the ENTIRE defensive coaching staff and get some new guys!

Oh wait.  Didn't we just do that?  Huh.  Yes, coaching changes always work!    :nod:

I can't offer any excuses. I am still going to wait for the season to be over, but I am starting to think that we will have another coach next season as well.

I will say this....this won't be the challenge that it was 3 years ago in terms of rebuilding for a new coach. He'd have to hold on to the recruits we want of course, but CDD has done well in getting some talent here, especially on the OL and DL. So, if we CAN possibly get a big name hire, he would not be walking into a team no talent.

I agree with this, as I've said before.  IMO, our next coach will be walking into a very, VERY good situation.  I think, with the right leadership in place, we're set up to win right away.

I hope Bray and Hunter stay for another season.  It could be a rough one for the next Coach if the QB is Justin Worley,Patrick Ashford and Nathan Peterman and the only experienced returning receiver is Cordarelle Patterson   

We can win even if we lose all of those guys.  We return TONS of experience along both lines, which is the most important thing in this league.  Neal, with another year under Graham, can be an all-SEC type RB next season.  Either Worley or Peterman can get the job done at QB.  If this team gets quality coaching, they can win next year, and win BIG in 2014.

As of last week, Bray was not even a top 5 draft QB per Todd McShay of ESPN

I don't have a link, but I saw it scroll by on the ESPN ticker last week.

According to this, he is definitely not top 4. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft  (see table to right)

I don't have an insider account, so I can't get to the actual ESPN QB draft ratings.

I think he probably does come back. Or makes a bad move and settles for the 2nd or 3rd round.  Frankly he needs to learn to handle pressure better to get his stock back up IMO, and that probably will take another year.   :nod:

His stock has gone down a lot since the beginning of the year.

Yeah, Danielson wasn't keen on him throwing while he backs up, but said it helps in some cases.  So whatever, MUO (My Uninformed Opinion) is that he needs to come back.

I didn't call you out by name. Ridge did. Just wanted to clarify since you started off with the "calling out" stuff and then seem to address my post. You were far from the only person who took a moral victory from the Georgia loss.

The issue is not with running off the entire defensive staff or not running off the entire defensive staff. The issue is that you have a head coach who will always have some reason why he isn't winning like Tennessee should win. When he first got here, he didn't have any players. OK, fair point... bad situation. Second year... well, we had injuries and no depth. OK... fair point, bad situation. This year, we're changing schemes on defense and don't have any leaders. OK... no big deal. But, next year it will be something else and something else the year after that. What I've heard Dooley say with my own ears is that he and Wilcox were not on the same page philosophically but he and Sal are. Well... with all due respect coach, your philosophy sucks and you allowed a better defensive coordinator to walk away because of your flipping ego.

I think it's a pussy way to be to sit and look at a really crappy situation and say "Oh no, we can't change, that might make it worse!" There is no excuse for Tennessee to be this bad three years into a coaches tenure. Three years is enough to close the gap on some of these programs. So lets just call Dooley what he is... a transitional coach... thanks for building back up the numbers and putting in a process coach... thanks for getting a few good players... now go away while we go pay somebody top dollar to put this program back where it needs to be.

If they go and hire Kirby Smart or some jackwagon like that, I'm going to take a long look at how much passion I put into rooting for this program while that coach is proving to me what they can and can't do.

:rotfl:

I didn't say you did.   :confused: I was in fact referring to Ridge.  My response was directed at the entire thread, not just you.


Oh I know Dooley is an excuse-maker. I  complained about this all last year, and in fact got jumped for it a couple of times.  But I pointed out earlier this season that he hasn't been doing it this year.  I think he knows he got exposed by the Kentucky game last year and it won't wash anymore.  I haven't heard him make any excuses this year while admitting that I haven't been hanging on his every word either.  But certainly the first two years, he kept blaming the players publicly, which actually pissed me off more than once.


Well I don't know exactly what happened last year, and I didn't try to find out.  Losing 80% of our coaching staff was so demoralizing to me that I decided I was better off just not knowing.  Dooley may have lost Wilcox because Wilcox wanted out of a bad situation and Dooley was trying to put the best face on it.  That's my impression, though I freely admit I quit paying attention sometime around Dec 15 last year.  If in fact it was Dooley's ego that led to Wilcox leaving, then Dooley deserves all the blame for the D this year.  If Wilcox left because he wanted to desert a sinking ship, then I feel sympathy for Dooley but it's still his bad for not persuading Wilcox to stay.  My main point, whatever the case, is that we would probably have an average to above average D this year with continuity in the D staff, no matter how it played out.


That's not my POV at all.  More like, if a change is needed, do it at the right time, use reason and logic,  do what's best for the program and don't be overly swayed by public opinion.  Hamilton gave Fulmer a contract extension in 2007 when I thought (and most probably thought) it was unjustified, and then promptly and very clumsily jettisoned Fulmer when it went south in 2008.  Then he made an atrocious hire in Kiffin, a guy that AL fizzleING DAVIS called out publicly, because, IMO, he was catering to the most impatient and obnoxious part of our fanbase.  He apparently thought they wanted a young brash guy like Pearl (not young but definitely brash) while failing to notice that Pearl could actually coach and had a some loyalty to the program.  Then when Kiffin fizzleed us, he briefly considered Cut but backed down, apparently because the fanbase pissed and moaned.  My point is that we all have very short attention spans and are extremely impatient, and I got tired of that the last time around.  Don't worry, Dooley is probably gone.  But if Hart had fired him the week after Florida, I would have lost all respect for him.  


I actually don't disagree with this last very much, I was just hoping we could improve to 8-4 this year and be in a better position next year.  But to be honest, it's starting to look better anyway.  We get most of our Oline back next year along with a promising run game and perhaps even Bray and CP (I think Hunter is gone based on his current draft rating and the way he has been playing - IMO to not get hurt).  I think even with a reset of the coaching staff they might be able to do something with all that talent.  I am less sanguine about the D, but a new coach would buy a couple years to rebuild it.  What I will definitely say is that putting all the chips in on Florida was very premature IMO.   And the funny thing is, many of the things everyone was complaining about the last two years and after Florida - the lack of a run game, the quick abandonment of the run game, the run blocking of the OL, the mental attitude of the team - all those things have improved.  It's very frustrating that our D sucks so bad and I blame most of that on the D-staff coaching reboot.

 



Yeah I don't want him either.  Let him stay in Tuscaloosa and sniff Nick Saban's jock.  

But if we change coaches, I don't care who it is, I doubt they step right in and win the MNC.  Larry Coker did it, but he had way more talent than us.  Terry Bowden went 11-0 with Pat Dye's players, but obviously had more talent, I mean, they were on probation.

Laugh all you want, I'm just being honest with myself.

Or maybe I should just ask you to explain what the intent of the emoticon was in that post.

Why?  You would just misinterpret my response ...

I certainly interpreted the emoticon in a certain way. What's one more (mis)interpretation? If you aren't willing to expand, maybe the first response was better left unposted.

One other thing Revolver...it's one thing to talk about needing a change, it's another thing to do it right.  We definitely didn't do it right last time.  The fanbase was demanding a change and Hamilton caved, but he was completely unprepared to replace Fulmer.  I still remember privately shaking my head at the hiring of Kiffin. I didn't post much against him, but let me put it this way now, would anyone run Fulmer off now for DOOLEY, or even KIFFIN?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

So in terms of our current coaching situation, we had better have something pretty good to come in and replace Dooley.  If what we get isn't much better, then don't bother.  It might not seem challenging to replace Dooley, and perhaps it's not.  But I think the standard we need to use is, we need to get someone that is a worthy replacement for FULMER.  That is, go back and do right what should have been done better to begin with.

And let me add....I think a big....no HUGE part of the problem was that Hamilton was cowed by public opinion and acted out of fear and not what was actually the best thing to do.

Clay Travis points out that a lot of programs are probably shopping for coaches this year.  So it's going to be tough to get a big name, maybe.

So should we get another bargain bin coach just to say we are replacing Dooley, or if prospects look better, should we wait till next year even if the best he can do is likely now 7-5?

This is a legitimite question.  I am okay with or without a coaching change, but if done, it dam well better be a big name.

Clay Travis? Haha... Who cares what Clay Travis thinks?

I'm weary of the debate. Everybody knows where I stand. I agree that it's time for a home run hire.

Glad to see you come around.   :wink:

:dielaughing:

 :loco:

Miss State's avg recruiting ranking over the last three years = 35th.  :hurl:

Well, it's obvious you don't think my posts are hilarious. Passive aggression is not very becoming, FWIW.

Clay Travis?  :bird:

Seems like MSU's players are getting Coached up(UT needs some of that!)and are learning.

I am not calling for a coaching change, if that's what you mean.  But if it comes, do it right.

Frankly, some of the fans that were so anxious to run Fulmer off in early 2007 are getting exactly what they deserve.   :nod:

Couldn't agree more on Fulmer.  It now seems like a colossal mistake, to me.  And we're on the same page in that the coaching change needs to be done right.  There is some hope in that at least we know it won't be Hammy doing the hiring.

I trust Hart to handle the hiring correctly.  He has to have a big name hire already signed, sealed and delivered before Dooley is let go.  To let Dooley go without having someone else already hired is a monumental mistake, imo.  I'd rather have Dooley for another year than to have to settle (again).

a new favorite phrase?
The response (  :rotfl: ) the other night was sarcasm since I deleted a long post that explained some things but figured it would just add another crease in your hair.

This one I Truly thought your post was funny as hell.  You don't give a damn about Clay's position but you seemed to expect that all cared for yours. :confused:

BTW ...

The bolded part is absolutely laughable. I couldn't care less what you or anybody else thinks about my opinions.

Clay Travis is a troll on the radio and Internet who just says whatever he can to get the most reaction / hits / page views. His opinions are irrelevant, just like mine. And just like yours.

It was handled badly, but just because neither of the successors were the right choice to replace him doesn't mean it was a mistake to fire him.

But Hamilton really screwed it up.

THAT we can agree on

I'd rather have what we had then what we have now.  Jmo

Disagree. Fulmer had to go. The mistake was in hiring Kiffin to replace him. Personally, I wish we'd fired Fulmer in 2002 and went after Spurrier.

 

1) I love Fulmer, but believe he had to go. Hamilton should never have signed him to the extension, but even with that there was no choice.

2) Kiffin has a good hire from an on-field performance perspective. He was an awful hire otherwise.

3) Dooley has done a good job cleaning, and had he hired a good DC (it doesn't appear Sunseri is a fit) we'd be fine. Unfortunately things do not appear fine. I agree with comparisons of Sunseri and Clawson.

I would too, but that's a dangerous slope. Looking back is rarely good. The fault was in the hires to replace Fulmer, not the decision to move on.

I know I will get chastised for listening to him...but...Mark Howard says he thinks Hart pushed Dooley to hire Sunseri.  I did not like Wilcox but would prefer him to this mess we have now.

Chastise, chastise, chastise!

That rumor has been out there for a while. Even before the season I heard that it's possible that Hart wanted Sunseri so he'd have somebody to keep on board when he fires Dooley and hires Kirby Smart.  I think all that is Internet fodder made convenient by the fact that Hart was at Alabama. I don't really think ADs or assistant ADs have very close relationships with position coaches on a football staff.

Man, that approach has all the workings of nothing good.  How do you expect them to sneak around Dooley and the entire Vol nation and get a big name coach before letting Dooley go? That is a PR disaster waiting to happen. And us Auburn fans can speak to that based on experience.  May y'all should start tracking flights that the UT plane takes. At the very least it would make for some interesting internet fodder; and at the most, it would uncover a calndestine coaching search. Regardless, it would be a win/win for VTTW in terms of traffic.

I hope not because it would not bode well for Hart's ability to choose a quality coach.

You do everything through intermediaries so everything is deniable.

You know, like how the Aubies paid Cam's Dad.

I also read that State scored a TD on one play where we only had 10 men on the field. Also we called a Timeout in the 1st half because we had 12 men on the field but then they counted again and we had 11.  :wtf:

Not hired but at least have a good plan

U have a link

You want a Cam, you need to outbid us.   :doh:

There is, I might point out, a difference between a coach who has had success and one who has not, in this context.

Still, better to avoid the PR if possible.

A very good point.   That battle is long past, and there is no need to re-hash it now on the merits, but it does offer some lessons for the current situation.

Specfically, while the 2008 criticism was justified, my opinion all along was that the 2007 criticism, which in turn led to the questionable extension by Hamilton, was unjustified.  Yes, there needed to be improvements, but to even discuss firing a coach who went 9-3 in the regular season and arguably a play or two from the SEC championship was just ludicrous.

That set up the situation in 2008 that was almost unwinnable for Fulmer.  We were almost certain to take a step back without Ainge, and if 9-3 and the SECCG was unacceptable, then how could he possibly satisfy anyone in 2008?   And it's my opinion...right or wrong...that the negative vibes around Fulmer at the beginning of 2008 made it harder to succeed.  Everything was under scrutiny and fans had no patience, and frankly the program was just steeped in negativity.  It ultimately led to Hamilton losing his nerve and firing Fulmer just 6 months after defending him and giving him a contract extension. 

This is relevant to the current situation in the following way.  If we had a coach with a 75% win record and an MNC let go and replaced in a way that went south, and now we are hovering around 500 every year, then how bad can it get if we fizzle up the replacement of Dooley, if and when that occurs?

All of which is to say that arbitrarily deciding the third game of the season is make or break...maybe not the right way to do things.   

Particularly if the perception was that our opponent was not any good, but is actually currently no 2 in the BCS.   :nod:

And let me add, that Dooley has certainly not done himself any favors recently.  The performance of the defense recently has been about as bad at UT as it has ever been.

So to me, the season is still playing out. 

I say we take our best shot at USCe and ... the source of all evil in the world. 

It's possible that Dooley could upset bama and not buy more than another year, but I don't GAS, I just want to beat those fizzleers.   : :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I'm on my phone and don't feel like digging for it.  It was referenced on another board.

I know there are at least 2 divided camps on this, but I am of the opinion that he should remain as our coach. When he was hired in 2010 after no other coach wanted the position, I thought it was a 4-5 year re-building effort giving where we were and the competition. I still believe that today as we are in year 2.5 of the re-building effort. Reasons I think he stays are:

1. He was given a 6 year contract in 2010. That term length tells me that the UT brass knew of the effort required and they are committed to the timeframe.

2. I think HC Dooley and AD Hart were on the same page with the Sunseri hire knowing of the scheme change and the time required to learn and implement the new system. Another reason that I think they are committed to the timeframe to re-build.

3. With the $5M buyout, plus the UT Asst Coaches buyout, plus with the buyout of any new coach/staff - will not allow UT get a "home run hire" many people are wishing for.

4. In 2010, nobody other than HC Dooley wanted the job. Granted it is more appealing today after the effort by HC Dooley, but I still do not see a potential HC that brings the "reward" to the "risk" of firing HC Dooley and letting everyone say UT is hiring a 4th HC coach in 6 years.

5. The situation that HC Dooley agreed to fix, is one where we had 3 coaches in 3 years with all the change and attrition that this brings. I do not know of another program ever to have 3 coaches in 3 years. Maybe there is a few, but it is a very short list and I highly doubt they played in the SEC.

6. In regards to the competition, to say we are going to improve, the "pie theorem" must be applied. It states that there are a fixed number of wins in the conference each year. So if you say you are going to improve in the SEC East, you have to like wise say which team you are taking a slice of pie from. Today, that is easier said than done.

7. And finally, Jimmy Chitwood will not play next year if coach is let go ... "coach stays".

I did see a play on the tape, on their TD after the short field fumble (mid 4th) where we appeared to have ten players, but the camera did not pan to include the whole end zone, so it's not possible to be sure.  FWIW.

Some good points in there.  Bammer went through Franchione, Price(? - the strippr guy) and then Shula, but Price never even coached a game, so it' sno the same.

Is Jimmy Chitwood a kind of "generic player name"?

Watch the movie Hoosiers